Borrowing - w/ updates, + !borrowme, !borrowlist

[qan]

Currently testing player borrowing, albeit in a pretty basic state. This allows caps/asscaps to borrow anyone who is TWD-registered, including members of the other team, players who are not squadjoined, etc.


To borrow:

• Both sides must use !borrow. This enables borrowing, and disables both squad and personal ratings changes (for the time being)
• !borrow <name> to initiate a borrow request
• The player must !acceptborrow
• Once the borrow is accepted, the bot will inform you that the player has joined the squad for the duration of the game
• You then just !add them as normal
• To stop borrowing a player (such as if someone from your squad comes on and you want to give the other squad a player back), do !borrow <name>

Questions to think about:

• How many people should you be able to borrow for a game? At the moment it's 1 for dd/jd, and 3 for bd.
• Should there be any limit on how often players can be borrowed?
• Should players with a higher rating cost more to borrow? If so, how is the cost determined, and how is it paid? Do squads get points that refresh every day, week or month? Do they have to pay using spacebux, incentivizing pub and event play?
• Should squad ratings be changed in games with borrowed players? A percentage? How much, and based on what?
• Should player ratings change in games with borrowed players? %?

[Fork]

Currently testing player borrowing, albeit in a pretty basic state. This allows caps/asscaps to borrow anyone who is TWD-registered, including members of the other team, players who are not squadjoined, etc.


To borrow:

• Both sides must use !borrow. This enables borrowing, and disables both squad and personal ratings changes (for the time being)
• !borrow <name> to initiate a borrow request
• The player must !acceptborrow
• Once the borrow is accepted, the bot will inform you that the player has joined the squad for the duration of the game
• You then just !add them as normal
• To stop borrowing a player (such as if someone from your squad comes on and you want to give the other squad a player back), do !borrow <name>

Questions to think about:

• How many people should you be able to borrow for a game? At the moment you could technically borrow your entire lineup.
• Should there be any limit on how often players can be borrowed?
• Should players with a higher rating cost more to borrow? If so, how is the cost determined, and how is it paid? Do squads get points that refresh every day, week or month? Do they have to pay using spacebux, incentivizing pub and event play?
• Should squad ratings be changed in games with borrowed players? A percentage? How much, and based on what?
• Should player ratings change in games with borrowed players? %?

The thing is no one's really bothered much about twd points but a fair way would be:

Each borrowed player should reduce the total amount of points the squad gets if they win by a %. I would think up to 50% reduction on 1 borrowed player, 70% on 2 and 90% on 3 borrowed players. Why high % of reduction on 1 borrowed player? Because adding 1 top player could guarantee a win for that team (adding stayon or ease).

I can't decide if it's a good thing to allow 2 or 3 players to be borrowed, it would mean squad vs world which is cool. My gut feeling tells me to borrow one player only because at least you kinda know who u will b vsing wen you challenge a squad, where as if u allowed borrowing of 3 players, noone will know who they going to play, and it could be random all the time defeating some purpose of squad dueling. Imagine if u vsed the same top 3 players no matter what squad u challenged? Ouch.



Idea One (involving pub/ twd)

(Brainstorming only) If you're capable of adding it in, I feel that it should be made in a way that makes it less easy to borrow players. Squads have got to buy to borrow a player using spacebux from (if possible a squad wallet). There should be a spacebux price on players and people can go to a website to view the current prices. I'm thinking like to borrow someone like stayon, you would need like 50k spacebux where as of you borrowed yojimbo it would b free (just messing yojimbo! <3) So these squad wallets are basically a storage where players in the squad can donate their spacebux into it. It would be nice to donate (to squad wallet) only what u earn in pub and it won't allow you donate money that's already been donated to u from another player (something which might b impossible to do). If was set in place, spacebux would actually have a purpose in pub + people hopefully will play pub just to fund their squad wallets. Again, just brainstorming ideas.



Idea Two (Easier to implement)

An easier method could be: Each time a squad completes a TWD game- they are earned 5 TWD coins (or something along the lines as sertifi would say). With these TWD coins, squads can buy to borrow a player. Again players will cost more than others.



Idea Three

Players can be borrowed for free but depending on the player + current rank of the squad on the ladders. You could use the TWDT ranking system to grade each player and have it like this:
Rank 5-6 players can borrowed on any squad regardless of what rank the the squad is currently at.
Rank 7-8 players can be borrowed on any squad less than rank 2
Rank 9-10 players can be borrowed only on any squads less then rank 4.

Idea allows shitter squads to potentially borrow top players/ prevents top squads from borrowing top players to keep winning.

[idkidc1233]

I'm sure that hardly anyone cares about the points, but having both teams borrow while rating is voided makes it feel like javduel/wbduel. But it can also be unfair if the people borrowing win because of that borrowed player. Honestly, I can't see the use of borrowing being useful except for twbd, to get that extra 1 or 2 people to bd.

[Kim]

If its 3v3, borrow one. 4v4, borrow 2. 5v5 borrow 3. Would like to hear people's opinions on this. Allowing up to 3 to borrow for 5v5's might boost the 5's games happening, which is more reflective of TWDT and TWL games so its better practice than the 3v3's happening.

[Jones]

If its 3v3, borrow one. 4v4, borrow 2. 5v5 borrow 3. Would like to hear people's opinions on this. Allowing up to 3 to borrow for 5v5's might boost the 5's games happening, which is more reflective of TWDT and TWL games so its better practice than the 3v3's happening.

I agree with this. more 5v5 games pls!

Each borrowed player should reduce the total amount of points the squad gets if they win by a %.

I believe this would be good to take into consideration, especially if the ratings are for qualifying for twl.

[zidane]

I'd keep rating but cut it to 50% for any borrowing

[Stayon]

It's good that it's finally here but in a way it's already being abused by goofs.

Yes, points or stats aren't important as they are reset systematicly, but on the other side of the coin, most of us still like em to the point that it gives TWD a bit of meaning and this might turn TWD into a huge javduel/wbduel/go base fest.

Personally I have 0 interest in playing games with borrowed people, as I want some meaning on it regardless if I'm on Paladen getting beat down by whoever stacks against us. Meaning I rather lose with some meaning than just playing like it's a "random" arena. Same goes to winning.

I don't think borrowing should be allowed to 3vs3, at all. TWD already has the 3 players option instead of 4 like the old days, so getting 3 people isn't an impossible task. 4vs4 or 5vs5, one is enough.

I mostly think borrowing should be for TWBD for obvious reasons such as activity and the number of people needed, so 2 would be more than enough.

Attack's ideas and desires to make TWD more relevant are pretty good, but be carefull with this..as it might become at the same time the end of it. I'm sure you'll find a suitable balance. Good work.

[Major Crisis]

I agree with mr dookieman. Borrowing should only be for BD. If u dont have 3 to play jd/dd so be it, stack ur squad some more with active player ;c

[Crescent Seal]

It can definitely bring life back into twbd and I see the points people have about twdd/twjd. But like Kim said, more 5vs5 in both dd/jd would be more reflective of TWL and therefore bring significance back to twd in general. I like the idea of allocating 50% points for borrowed games. Just keep a track of activity and analyze the results to move forward.

[Crescent Seal]

Being the #1 hot commodity in this game aka most borrowed player of all time, I'm beginning to see a few negatives of this. The games are losing their credibility which in turn results in players not really trying. Have also noticed that squads who have 5 are still borrowing veterans to win. This system favors the pros and once again widens the skill gap.

[Banks]

I would like to veto the borrowing system

[Attacks]

Just to mention guys as some of you are quite worried about this, and have approached me in game about this we are testing the borrowing system purely before the season starts. This is not the end product, we understand that too many borrowed players ruins the feel of twdd and makes it feel like wbduel/javduel/base and that a unrated game once again makes it feel like wbduel/javduel/base. TWD borrowing system is a subject for this Sunday and we will discuss with everyone the restrictions to put in place on how many borrowed players per team, and what rating will be gained from a game with borrowed players.

So don't panic, Attacks and the TWD team has got your back.

[field]

Have also noticed that squads who have 5 are still borrowing veterans to win.

AFAIK, tw-guards track idleness, so perhaps a way to remedy this would be to disallow borrowing in twdd/jd if squads have 5 or more non-idle players on. But I am not sure whether this borrowing system is coded into matchbots or the twd modules. If in the modules, then in theory it should work.

[Heaven]

allow borrow for twbd - up to 2 players max (get those 8v8)
disallow borrow for twdd/twjd if 3v3
allow borrow for twdd/twjd if 4v4 or 5v5 - 1 player borrow max per game

[Omega Red]

Guys since the incentive to play TWD is for squad points, allow points. (50% ,20%, 10% doesn't matter to me personally just something.)

If no points gained can be accommodated PLEASE allow stats to be recorded on TWD. I wanna see my stats for games I've played with or against borrowed games on TWD site.