Changing the basing map

[Fit of Rage]

Originally posted by Pio
This is what I think everyone is talking about. It would allow for the terrier to be repped out of the 'crammed' position.

I think its up somewhere (basefr#10 11 12 13? one of those).

I like it, madness all over the flagroom is great.

[wadi]

Originally posted by Sufficient
I think we should stop being wussies about map changes and make some semimajor improvements. I'd like to see a BIGGER FR, and 2 entrances (either top and bottom or left and right side). Those are basically the main 2 things I'd like personally. And btw ... why the heck do we keep the rest of lower base intact when parts of it aren't used AT ALL? Isn't every part of base supposed to be "usable"?

The reason people aren't making semi major improvements is because the base is pretty damn good right now. It may need tweaking, but if you ever go check out the craptastic maps like 80% of what goes up in EG every map change, you'll see that the TW base map is very very good for what it's supposed to do. A lot of the major changes that get suggested are thrown out because they, well, suck ass.

As for the lower not being completely used, I don't know what you're talking about. I can't think of a single piece of lower base that doesn't serve some sort of purpose at one point or another in a tight game. Could you be specific about what you'd like to change?

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by wadi
The reason people aren't making semi major improvements is because the base is pretty damn good right now. It may need tweaking, but if you ever go check out the craptastic maps like 80% of what goes up in EG every map change, you'll see that the TW base map is very very good for what it's supposed to do. A lot of the major changes that get suggested are thrown out because they, well, suck ass.

As for the lower not being completely used, I don't know what you're talking about. I can't think of a single piece of lower base that doesn't serve some sort of purpose at one point or another in a tight game. Could you be specific about what you'd like to change?

This is what I meant about conservatives (in some previous post ... maybe by rand?). You want a 4 spid limit yet you aren't willing to make the change to a different map. The current map favors cram (you agree or no?) ... why don't you change that instead of restricting our right to play whatever we want? We need a fresh prespective on basing anyways ... why are you so opposed to a map change when it's obvious that there are flaws in it (ie one entrance, inefficient use of space esp in lower, one dimensional nature due to the separation of roof and mid of FR)?

As for the rest of the map ... the 2 mid ears are never used ... the two drops when you go through the side and up and then to the side again ... those 2 flaps are never ever used. Also the are in lower when u head to one of the side entrances ... the area above you. They are useless areas that serve no purpose except take up space. The current map doesn't efficiently use the area available. Plus, who the heck uses roof when basing? You SEVERLY restrict a wb/javs ability to play when you eliminate the roof area.

[CrvenBan]

I'm getting bit annoyed with reasons to why map alteration is needed (the nubies thingy).


Make cram weaker - what the fuck is that, it doesn't matter where it's set up, IF the defense is stronger than the offense you won't break it. Why would we want to make anything on opposing team weaker, be it by map altering or ship restriction ? If you'r gonna beat them, beat them at their strongest.


More fr battles, more fun - wtf, where are you ppl coming from ? That's the reason to change map ? If the defense is so much better to be able to stop offense in the lower, they STILL WON'T TOUCH THE FLAG! The fun = keeping everyone out of the fr. What is next, flag in open space ?


The real reson: Piling up 8 laggy ships into very small area, without ability to rep them away, incorporated with spikes and defending reps, WILL CREATE lag advantage on the defending side, and THAT is why there should be a change. This type of advantage is not based on skills nor luck but it is indeed a flaw in map design. Fix it.

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by CrvenBan
I'm getting bit annoyed with reasons to why map alteration is needed (the nubies thingy).


Make cram weaker - what the fuck is that, it doesn't matter where it's set up, IF the defense is stronger than the offense you won't break it. Why would we want to make anything on opposing team weaker, be it by map altering or ship restriction ? If you'r gonna beat them, beat them at their strongest.


More fr battles, more fun - wtf, where are you ppl coming from ? That's the reason to change map ? If the defense is so much better to be able to stop offense in the lower, they STILL WON'T TOUCH THE FLAG! The fun = keeping everyone out of the fr. What is next, flag in open space ?

The real reson: Piling up 8 laggy ships into very small area, without ability to rep them away, incorporated with spikes and defending reps, WILL CREATE lag advantage on the defending side, and THAT is why there should be a change. This type of advantage is not based on skills nor luck but it is indeed a flaw in map design. Fix it.

Than change it by adding a 2nd entrance. Make some maps then Crvn.

[Server]

[Brink]

Why are there two random blocks in the middle of the open space? Is that so jav shots can hit those blocks or is that merely an error?

[Server]

to prevent the "maddess above and below"

[wadi]

now that, is kinda interesting. I don't really like the way it removes the hiding place for terrs, (the one right and left of the entrance, the generic burst spot), but I do like the changes to the entrance (sort of an offensive cram slot), and the little block in the fr could make for some interesting manuevering. I'm not really sure it solves the low issues through the lower fr though, be good to try out.

Oh, and I never did like that whole diagnol business.

[CrvenBan]

Those two nubs in the middle of fr could create at least 2 probs as I see it:

1. camping spid that would be sitting on fr wall just about lining place would be well protected and probably still able to shoot at entrance (but map design make lines easier to break so...)


2. nubs create two uneven parts of fr. Upper has much more space in it, while lower seem more pressed together. As defending team you could let them in, but keep controll of upper area and still have whole opposing team pushed down in big group.

Worth a test tho

[Server]

i'm happy for 3 years now because wadi didnt say that sucked

[wadi]

Originally posted by CrvenBan
Those two nubs in the middle of fr could create at least 2 probs as I see it:

1. camping spid that would be sitting on fr wall just about lining place would be well protected and probably still able to shoot at entrance (but map design make lines easier to break so...)


2. nubs create two uneven parts of fr. Upper has much more space in it, while lower seem more pressed together. As defending team you could let them in, but keep controll of upper area and still have whole opposing team pushed down in big group.

Worth a test tho

I think these two things already happen with the current base map?

[Galleleo]

This last map looks good IMO, not to drastic changes. but still different.

[Vitron]

Could we have some of these map ideas put in... lets say base3?

Also I'm not sure if I'm found of the idea of having two entrances. Yes you want the have it a 'bit' simplier to get into the fr... But it needs to be balanced, with two entrances it isn't balanced.

[Nickname]

Originally posted by Server

This is my fave map so far, the indents to either side of the cram means a javbomb has a better cance of exploding right under the cram, also ships can move into and out of them for cover, the block in the middle is also useful for bursts, javshots or hiding in a spider if the cram failed and you got pushed into a semi-line.

EDIT: Also as far as the inability to rep the terr out of the cram, that still exsists BUT if the terr chooses to stay in that small hole he's gonna die simply because the entrance is bigger and you can make that shot easier. I love this map serv.