Spider limitations? What a backwards irrelevent rule

[Divine Rides]

This is a joke- you're limiting the number of SPIDERS ?!?!?
This is an absolute joke- this should not carry over to TWLs and it's a shame to be tainting TWDs with this nonsense- spiders!?!? what? One terr, two sharks- these things make sense to me- but making any sort of restrictions on the combat ships is ridiculous- the dynamic of different lineups that teams use is part of the basing charm- what advantage or disadvantage does a five spider lineup bring that warrants restrictions? I am completely baffled by the motivation behind this decision. I think it should be immediately removed as a TWD rule- these guys should be able to play whatever they want to get into TWLs.

[wadi]

The logic behind the rule is that it creates a less mind numbing basing experience. The number of 5 v 5 spid games was mind blowing last season, boring to watch and irritating and/or boring to play. I'd like to see a less ship specific rule (like a 3 of any ship max, except sharks), but if it makes basing less mechanical I'll be happy.

WTF DR, I'd think you'd be happy Pallies would be forced to put a basebird in.

[Sufficient]

Why eliminate a valid strategy when you can have an even more fun experience with a different map which will also probably solve the multiship problem anyways? We need to get some balls and make a map change ... not some rule that is biased against certain stratgies.

2 entrances and a bigger FR ... that's all I want.

[wadi]

This isn't about winning matches sufficient, it's about having fun.

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by wadi
This isn't about winning matches sufficient, it's about having fun.

And restricting my team's right to pick our ships is restricting our fun and other team's fun (who want to play 5 spids). Don't force YOUR type of fun on me. We don't tell you how to play ... don't tell us how to play. Change the map.

[froedrick]

Ok, sorry. 5 spids is not as fun as say 4 spids and a jav? Bullshit. No way does one jav explosion every 2-5 minutes that wipes out a team make the basing experience more fun. Also most teams don't actually have a wb or a jav that can compete with the top squads limiting their chances of winning, where as they might have another spid who can compete and keep their team alive and make the league closer. Don't give me shit about it making it more fun for everyone. It doesn't, not in the slightest, It just makes the game a little more dynamic and you'll have to adjust your playing style.

[Divine Rides]

I think a five spider line is stupid/boring as well- if you don't like the lineup, don't play it- but don't stop other squads from using it because you can't break it- evolve baaaby, evolve.

[Necromotic]

i think its great

[Dabram]

Div has returned to bring the truth!

[wadi]

Originally posted by Divine Rides
I think a five spider line is stupid/boring as well- if you don't like the lineup, don't play it- but don't stop other squads from using it because you can't break it- evolve baaaby, evolve.

I hate this fucking argument, it just doesn't fucking work. It's just simple math that tells you 5 spiders can put more firepower in to the entrance than any other set up. There's a reason every single squad was playing 5 spiders at the end of last season, and it's not the map, it's not the player skill in individual ships, it's just the fucking best line up in the fucking game. It's also the easiest line to play, and brutally effective against any other lineup. Ever seen evolution work in a small scale simulation div? after a few generations, relatively speaking, you get best-fit uniformity. That's what you have here. End of the line, story's over, get your check and check out because there's nothing more to see here. As long as the lines stay small (and they should if you want to keep this from becoming twdd), the season's going to ALWAYS be 5 spids vs 5 spids in a close game. Anyone whose captained in ?go base knows that if you're losing the single most effective thing to do is to throw another spider at it. In league, that means you go five spids, and don't fuck around with it. Hell, it almost makes blind lineups a joke, since you know 90+% of the time your going to see 5 spids. You want to talk about limiting line ups? 5 spids makes any other line up fucking obsolete. You know it, I know it, you can shit around about it as much as you want but when your ass is on the line you're going to be playing 5 spiders because it's just goddamn BETTER. No variety last season, no innovation after the cram, fuck I walked out on the finals they were so boring. (when diso wasn't javving nockm, that at least made it interesting)

Speaking from a purely terr/shark/spider standpoint, 5 spid vs 5 spid games bore the shit out of me, and I'm not the only one. 60 percent of players voted for a 4 spid max last BWC, and those numbers aren't insignificant. There's no element of uncertainty with spiders, they do what they do and brute force their way through a match, end of story, nuff' said. It's not a finesse ship, it's a "overwhelm the them with reds" ship.
As a terrier, you can play ridiculously aggressive in the fr because there's no danger from spider bullets. I know I rarely feel threatened unless the rest of my team's already dead. might as well just make the spiders and sharks spawn in each ear.
You say that not letting 5 spiders be a possible line up hurts young teams? How is it possible that a squad with 15 players can't field one decent jav or warbird? Wabird, the most popular ship in Trench! I call bs.
Here's the biggest thing, I know players who've just out and out quit because of the cram, and not low talent players. They just don't find it fun anymore. Basing for me is about the adrenaline rush, the variety of ships, the unexpected, and the finesse of balancing several ships in harmony. If you allow 5 spids, everyone will play 5 spids (so they don't get crushed by a team playing 5 spids), which destroys the variety, limits the unexpected, and removes any adrenaline rush from playing. Here's a chance to see if basing teams can actually field the vaunted multi ship depth they brag about to other leagues, and you're balking at it. Here's a chance to change the scenario, make squads grow talent in more than just spider and you're telling me you can't do that?

[Stabwound]

I still think it would be a better idea to make a change that would make people want to use less than 5 Spiders than to be forced to use less than 5 spiders. A simple tweak to the way the Spider can fire would probably work wonders.

[triceratops]

I'm for the 4 spider limit. Stabwound is right, if 5 spiders works everytime; then that's a game balance issue. Everything should have a counter, and although I agree squads should be able to play however many spiders they want, having a 5 spider line will dominate any match. Either tweak the spider settings, or make other ships more useful. Better yet, there are 3 ships in Trench Wars that aren't even considered to be played in a competitive basing match (obviously Weasel, Leviathan, and Lancaster; dumbass). Why not tweak those ships to make them useful for competitive play?

Some ideas for ship Lancaster changes...

Red bullets.
Multifire on spawn (don't require greening for multi).
Slightly faster recharge.

It won't happen, because the two responsible for ship settings could give a shit about basing.

[froedrick]

Originally posted by wadi
There's a reason every single squad was playing 5 spiders at the end of last season, and it's not the map, it's not the player skill in individual ships, it's just the fucking best line up in the fucking game.

So you're saying that playing the best lineup you possibly can is a bad idea because it makes it less fun for the other team? For both teams? I don't complain when my squad wins a match and normally I have fun when my squad is winning, in fact I don't think I've never not had fun while winning. Basically, we aren't allowed to play the "fucking best line up in the fucking game" because it's unfair to the other team... Sorry boring to both teams...

[PaulOakenfold]

Originally posted by triceratops
Why not tweak those

TW just doesn't have the nipples I guess....
but seriously, I'm all for the 4 spider limit, but if something can be done so that people will actually have to make a strategic choice between 5-3 spiders to win a game, that would be awesome.
Just think about it... mind games between the squads. "Will they go 5 spiders? 4 spiders and a jav? or 3 spiders with two javs or a jav and a wb?" Because as of right now, if anyone is interested in winning, they'll know, "Hey, they're going 5 spiders, we're about evenly matched, so in order to win we have to go 5 spiders."

[Stabwound]

Originally posted by froedrick
So you're saying that playing the best lineup you possibly can is a bad idea because it makes it less fun for the other team? For both teams? I don't complain when my squad wins a match and normally I have fun when my squad is winning, in fact I don't think I've never not had fun while winning. Basically, we aren't allowed to play the "fucking best line up in the fucking game" because it's unfair to the other team... Sorry boring to both teams...

5 spiders is the no-fuck-around lineup because it's a) the best b) no chance of tks c) the ship most people can play decently. Also, if you know the enemy team is going to use 5 spiders, then you pretty much also have to use 5 spiders against them unless you want a handicap against your team.

SPIDERS ARE OVERPOWERED.