Spider limitations? What a backwards irrelevent rule

[Fit of Rage]

I would take the occasional tk over the monotony of a 10 spider cram.

[Cig Smoke]

so ur gonna have an 8 spider cram, with a wb or jav coming up from behind distracting ur guys. Sure it -1 guy in the defence cram, but with that pescy wb in lower it'll disctract 1-2 maybe even 3 spiders on the attack. Its an overall stupid idea. If everyone had an equal jav or wb it'd be fine, but nto everyone does thus meaning some squads have an advantage.

[Stabwound]

Originally posted by Cig Smoke
If everyone had an equal jav or wb it'd be fine, but nto everyone does thus meaning some squads have an advantage.

Really bothers me when people say something like that. No matter what league/game/pub you are playing in, if you have more talented warbirds/spiders/levis then you are going to have an advantage. Really it doesn't take a lot of effort to become decent enough to compete in a BD in a jav or bird. They have 2 of the strongest projectiles in the game, so even if you suck, you'll still get some kills. It's not hard to refrain from TKing in jav if you try not to, and don't make stupid shots. The plain sight of a WB in the vicinity of any terr is going to make them panic and warp even when the WB gets close to them.

[Cig Smoke]

Its not the point of ther will always be an advantage, bc ur rite, but the WB/JAV in a base game cant be played by anyone. Not everyone is into basing that much to take the time to learn a completely new ship basicaly. Plus where is ther to learn it? Most of the time i'd say 95% of the time u'll never get picked in .?go base as a jav unless ur a captain. THey pick the guys they know can jav. The JAV/WB are ships in basing that can make the difference in a game. They are simply to deciding to make it that someone has to play them. Atleast i could throw Azn_tangboi_007 into a spider and expect some sort of performance outa him. Sure the 5th spider (if 5 spid vs 5 spid) wont be equal, but i'd much rather take my chance with a new 5th spider then having someone HAVE to jav or wb. Like i said its simply to powerful of a ship in base. They are 1 hit 1 kill shipz, having an advantage in them ships can make a clear cut difference.

[wadi]

Cig, I don't see how this helps your argument. You're saying we should allow five spiders, because it allows newer, less skill diverse, players to compete with veterans? That's a bad argument right there. All thoughts on fun aside, I'm for this rule because I'd like to see some depth return to basing squads, depth they're lacking now. If any squad plays someone in jav/warbird for any length of time in TWBD they're going to get better, that's just the way experience works. Right now, the system is set up is so that the first line up you learn is probably the best line up even for experienced players. What this has lead to is homogenity in play styles, ship choices, and frankly mediocre play in anything other than shark and spider. With a 4 and 1 rule, a baby step but a good one, you've got 2 probable line ups that both have advantages and disadvantages depending on a squad's plaing style, skill set, and teamwork. Stab has an excellent point about the bird's psychological effect on a game, and frankly I don't think the choice between jav and warbird is nearly as cut and dry as you might first assume. Jav is either the first or second hardest ship to learn (I'd put terr above it if the cram wasn't so potent), so newer squads and older ones alike could definetly choose bird over a more risky jav. Adding the insta-kill ship also puts pressure on the terriers, and we might finally see some new talent in that ship. I'm a sucker for good terrs, and I'm of the opinion 5 spider games and cramming have gone a ways to dumbing down that particular ship's role.

The worst that can happen is that a few squads have to train a jav or a bird. Plenty of time and undiscovered talent in that field. The possibility of improved play in jav, warbird, terrier, and heck maybe even shark and spider seems worth the change.

[Tigerex]

I assume this 5 spiders thing must of been Wadi's idea? Otherwise why would he be defending it blindly and trying to shoot other people down.

Anyway, limiting a strategy from basing is about as good an idea as telling people in TWJD that they can't use bullets in the last 5 minutes of any match. This rule is roughly on the same level. Pointless, there is no reason whatsoever to limit the number of spiders.

[Tigerex]

Hmm i remember there was once a bot which all of the TW population was allowed to vote on and make their own decision as to whether the pub map should be changed to one of a variety of other maps which were trailed over a few weeks.

I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet because i can't be bothered to read 4 pages of meaningless shitcream, but why don't they just apply this rule until a week before TWD is reset for real, then take a poll and the masses of TW can tell the TWD operators what a huge mistake they have made thinking that because they don't find 5 spider basing games fun that no one else does.

thanks.

[Cig Smoke]

Tig is rite, I mite find 5 spiders fun in basing. I would much rather die to a spider, then some shitfaced lagass jav rocketing for every 100 mph through my sharks and owning me. I dont think im the only one. And yes, forcing someone to play a jav/wb/something else is wrong. Those other ships make to much of a difference, as stab said a wb makes a terr warp just bc igts close, same with a rocketing jav. But the team with the better jav/wb has a clear cut advantage, bc i would be much more scared if Div came @ me in wb, then say urself wadi, simply bc i konw he is good in it and experienced in it. When u got urself a good person to do the job in one ofthem ships it gives 100% more of an advanntage then the other team. If u dont have a valid jav or wb or whatever, then that is basicaly taking that person out of the match, aka making it basicaly 8v7. Sure soemoen can take time and learn to basejav, or we can do what others do and go recruit a guy to base jav, but its the fact we should not have to do that. WE should be able to play 5 spiders if we want toplay 5 spiders. I should not have to go scouting to recruit a jav, or practice in something jsut for leagues. Its an overall stupid idea. The spider wasnt and still isnt the problem in the cram. Its the sharks. And i still think that if ur the better team, u can win with 4 spiders and 1 jav vs 5 spiders. IT was done last season w/ Diso vs elusive and elusive has top notch spiders. If the jav or wb is so ez to learn and use, why not keep it 5 spiders, then when u base u play the wb or jav if its so ez. The cram wont stop, and dominating cram squads will still cram great even with 4 spiders. All ur basicaly doin is making it 7v7 and in some cases 7v8. Mite as well keep it 8v8 with the 5 spider and atleast neone can play it then and have fun. There are many other things to do to break the cram. I aint a good map maker but server's map (.?go base3) seemed to be ezier to break the cram. I actualy saw teams using lines. Im not saying thats the base to use, but u could build off of it. That is much better of a thing to change then 4 spiders. And im sure if u make a map where a jav has mroe shots, more teams would use it. A jav is useless w/ sharks reping it away so much, when ur in lower, a jav has no fire power, its basicaly useless with good sharks agains it. There are 2 wholes to shoot up through, none with hit the flag area to break the cram or make the terr warp. Those are some problems, and some thinsg which would make the ppl use a jav. JAv is useless and no fun to use.

[froedrick]

Originally posted by Stabwound
Really bothers me when people say something like that. No matter what league/game/pub you are playing in, if you have more talented warbirds/spiders/levis then you are going to have an advantage. Really it doesn't take a lot of effort to become decent enough to compete in a BD in a jav or bird. They have 2 of the strongest projectiles in the game, so even if you suck, you'll still get some kills. It's not hard to refrain from TKing in jav if you try not to, and don't make stupid shots. The plain sight of a WB in the vicinity of any terr is going to make them panic and warp even when the WB gets close to them.

why can't you be allowed to play the spid... as you say they have the two most powerful projectiles in the game...Shouldnt that mean it's stronger 4 spids 1 jav/wb then 5 spids?

[Fit of Rage]

Originally posted by wadi
The worst that can happen is that a few squads have to train a jav or a bird. Plenty of time and undiscovered talent in that field. The possibility of improved play in jav, warbird, terrier, and heck maybe even shark and spider seems worth the change.

This is my stance as well.

[Nickname]

I think it's a very valid point. 2 seasons ago the league was full of what i'll call solid javs (my memory is bad at the best of times, but i'll try to name some) Pj, nockm, koan, smack man, jedi, mr.mew, me, bobr, tg and others

last year there were 2 javs that you could play and it wouldn't cripple your team - pj and nockm.

I like looking at the bigger list where the competiion rather than 2 guys sitting on top.

[Cig Smoke]

ya but many of th em guys arent even around anymore. Tg dont base, BobR isnt on a competative squad nemore, jedi/mew arent active, Smack man isnt to active either. I havent seen u jav in base for ages nick, bu yes u were good, but ppl lined back then, a jav is useful when lining, in a cram a jav is sort of useless, and as u can see from the long list of javs who were good back then not many are left. U, koan,pj/nockm are left basicaly, and PJ/Koan are on same squad. The 5 spider turned ppl away from playing jav, there jsut isnt as many javs nemore. It isnt fun forcing someone to play it. Or wb for that matter. IF someone wants to play spider, they should be allowed to. Like i said b4, the problem lies w/ the shark, 6 reps can be timed almost perfect and its hard to break a cram that way, even if its 4 spiders it will be that way.

[Sleepy Weasel]

Don't forget Thundermare, he was always a jav favorite.

[Cig Smoke]

I was gonna mention him, but even he is very inactive nowdays, and he hasnt really base javed in i'd say 2 years. His whole diso run al he did was spider, and b4 that while on Cripz they didnt base often, and when they did he was forced to shark or terr.

There are some javs who are capable of getting the job done, but its still a clear cut difference when its vs someone like nockm or pj in jav. People like JEBU can base jav very well, but he is again no NOCKM, and when it comes down to a 8v8 game and the 8th guy is a jav, its a disadvantage to have jebu. U almost need a great base jav to make a difference or even make it worth while having nowdays. And the evolving of basing into the cram also brought along a shortage of javs.

[Facetious]

Originally posted by Cig Smoke
Tig is rite, I mite find 5 spiders fun in basing. I would much rather die to a spider, then some shitfaced lagass jav rocketing for every 100 mph through my sharks and owning me. I dont think im the only one. And yes, forcing someone to play a jav/wb/something else is wrong. Those other ships make to much of a difference, as stab said a wb makes a terr warp just bc igts close, same with a rocketing jav. But the team with the better jav/wb has a clear cut advantage, bc i would be much more scared if Div came @ me in wb, then say urself wadi, simply bc i konw he is good in it and experienced in it. When u got urself a good person to do the job in one ofthem ships it gives 100% more of an advanntage then the other team. If u dont have a valid jav or wb or whatever, then that is basicaly taking that person out of the match, aka making it basicaly 8v7. Sure soemoen can take time and learn to basejav, or we can do what others do and go recruit a guy to base jav, but its the fact we should not have to do that. WE should be able to play 5 spiders if we want toplay 5 spiders. I should not have to go scouting to recruit a jav, or practice in something jsut for leagues. Its an overall stupid idea. The spider wasnt and still isnt the problem in the cram. Its the sharks. And i still think that if ur the better team, u can win with 4 spiders and 1 jav vs 5 spiders. IT was done last season w/ Diso vs elusive and elusive has top notch spiders. If the jav or wb is so ez to learn and use, why not keep it 5 spiders, then when u base u play the wb or jav if its so ez. The cram wont stop, and dominating cram squads will still cram great even with 4 spiders. All ur basicaly doin is making it 7v7 and in some cases 7v8. Mite as well keep it 8v8 with the 5 spider and atleast neone can play it then and have fun. There are many other things to do to break the cram. I aint a good map maker but server's map (.?go base3) seemed to be ezier to break the cram. I actualy saw teams using lines. Im not saying thats the base to use, but u could build off of it. That is much better of a thing to change then 4 spiders. And im sure if u make a map where a jav has mroe shots, more teams would use it. A jav is useless w/ sharks reping it away so much, when ur in lower, a jav has no fire power, its basicaly useless with good sharks agains it. There are 2 wholes to shoot up through, none with hit the flag area to break the cram or make the terr warp. Those are some problems, and some thinsg which would make the ppl use a jav. JAv is useless and no fun to use.

spider r good n stuff and i dun understand y u ppl r all gonna talk shit about spidres when i like them and they make it fun to paly these game. if u force ppl to play jav than i will like this less b/c i like spiders and i suck at jav b/c i suck at any ship that involves skill. i am pretty much suck at everything exept typing with extreemly poor grammer and spelling and spider. alos i am not on a sqad that ever basses, so my say shodnt have any baring on anything. all u ppl that actually base a lot dun kno wut u r talking about. since i scuk at all ships but spider liek i mentchened preavously i dun think that anyoen elses ships shoud be usefull at all.