"How do we fix TWL?" - An open discussion

[Vykromond]

To start of I want to say that I have no problems with how leagues is now, because it still is mostly about fun. If it was all so professional I, and others, could come up with much better formats to run leagues and no team would drop out before the end of leagues. But this just happens to be a game where it's all about having fun.
Still from reading all this threads filled with TWL-rants I start to think there is quite a community of people where it's all about being competative. Depending on how big this group is you might concider having a more professional league where having a pool of strong squads is more important than the online friendships and such. Like I said in the strikeball forum, if you are friends with someone why would it be less fun to fight him in a match.

The problem is that with any fun thing like this, there needs to be at least some undercurrent of professionalism to make it all possible. The TW Staff system is the same way; if it were "all about fun," it wouldn't work. TWL needs to have a professional framework. I want to establish a solid one.

I kind of tend to agree. Sure, it's fun to discuss, but if changing the rules calls for a delay to the start of a new twl, I don't think it's really worth it. TWL is fun enough as it is, and the playoffs will be exciting. Tweaking the rules from season to season seems reasonable, but a complete overhaul of the rules is going to cause staffers a lot of work that they probably don't have the time to do.

I would say that the suggestions proposed here (Awesome's, mine, etc.) are closer to "tweak" range than "complete overhaul." Many of them have historical precedent in previous league seasons.

good idea in theory, rand, but do you remember during these past TWL qualifications, squads like British Squad and 2 or 3 others that didn't deserve to be in the top 5 would refuse to play top squads.

This could be resolved with a playoffs system.

Allow recorded or unrecorded squad duels to allow any squad to face any other squad whenever they want (for those paladen type squads that dont want to compete but just want to play a fun match).
For recorded squad duels, only allow squads to challenge squads within perhaps +/- 10 ladder ranks within your squad (example: if your squad is 16th on the ladder, you can only challenge squads that are within 6th to 26th on the ladder

:up: Good idea. (Is this the first time I've agreed with you in this thread? )

[Profound Magician]

Summer leagues killed SS for me.

[Fit of Rage]

What the biggest problem in TWL is that there is a lack of incentive for losing squads to play. In Football, Basketball, etc, losing doesn't mean that much to the players... Why you ask? They get paid the same either way. Going to the playoffs is just an incentive to make more money. What about TWL? What is the incentive for the losing squads? Absolutely nothing.

Well, that's not necessarily true. Look at diso in TWLB. We started off with a horrible season 0-4, then a win against Melee, lost again to Incuria and Pallies, and then beat Syndicate to come out 2-6. Yet we can STILL make playoffs in our conference if we beat Whiterabbits this weekend and sk8 the next, and whiterabbits lose their remaining games. It'll be great.

[Fit of Rage]

WINTER LEAGUE

You better fucking beleive it. Pure_Luck told me that the next leagues will begin promptly in January following winter/Christmas break.

[Randedl]

that is a mark messier guarantee if i've ever heard it.

i don't like the idea of limiting the range you can challenge up. with the way twd is, alot of ducking could still happen that way, and further, there are alot of times where you can just not find games against the people you want to.

maybe make it so that you can't challenge very far below it, but you can challenge as far up as needed

[Zerzera]

The problem is that with any fun thing like this, there needs to be at least some undercurrent of professionalism to make it all possible. The TW Staff system is the same way; if it were "all about fun," it wouldn't work. TWL needs to have a professional framework. I want to establish a solid one.

I think there is enough professionalism at this point to make TWL a enjoyable event. Nonetheless I liked Basing World Cup more. I was captain of BNL, and I just like the idea more that you have a certain amount of captains that are assigned to build the strongest team. You will have to work with people you maybe wouldn't choose to be in a squad with if it was just for fun.
But this was for your own country, and so everyone wants to be part of it.
This way you create much more competition.
Ofcourse in a BWC only a little selection gets to play, and so each country kind of gets to pick only allstars.

[Fruitang]

If the roster cap is ever lowered/enforced, members who we (Pallies) would have to drop should be able to evade the roster lock. So for example, if there's someone on our roster who hasn't been active as of late, we could replace it with someone who is on the squad but not eligible for TWL.

[Capital Knockers]

WINTER LEAGUE







I've tried to conduct a little poll with help of squad caps before I went home for summer (I have numbers on my comp back home), and from what I remember a vast majority of people would want winter league over summer league.
Squads that, if I remember right, gave me answers were Pallies, Mambo, Shriek, WRs, Spastic, Incuria, Diso..Gv possibly...was waiting for others as well.
The spread was roughly like this:
winter: ~75-90% of people
summer:~5-10%
didn't care:~10-15%


That poll wasn't complete, but it does give you a reason to check that issue indepth, and I would like to see a poll where squad caps would check with their teams and note votes on summer/winter league. And if numbers are clear, then TWL staff should seriously think about moving league to winter months.

Only problem with winter league would be big hollidays, but that can be avoided if the league, in it's current format about 14w long (10w reg + 3w playoff + 1w replay), would start either late august/early september or early january after the hollidays and in either case you get 4 months to finish it.

I like this idea, alot of people just don't have the time in the summer. Not sure how will it would work, but I'd personally like it a bit better.

[geekbot]

ITEM A: DOES TWL NEED FIXING?

One reason why the great ideas go "ignored" by staff is because sometimes they are not needed.

No, I don't believe TWL is in need of major fixing. TWL is competetive and fun. Squads dissolving for the most part affects the bottom of the standings. TWLB lost 1, TWLD/J lost 2. How much were playoff squads really affected?

Roster cap: A large roster helps to promote loyalty as bz said. Reducing the roster cap will also have the effect of increasing squad churn.

16/14/12 squads: A huge incentive to stick together as a squad is being in TWL. It's natural for players in a squad that is on the verge of TWL to think about leaving instead of possibly waiting another season. Replacement squads will always be less stable, there's nothing to be done about that.

I think the most important thing is getting the right squads into TWL to begin with. It doesn't make sense that TWL squads are chosen based on only 1-2 weeks of performance after a TWD reset. The most proven, most active squads over a long period of time should get into TWL. Choosing squads should be based on:

* Previous season playoff squads automatically get in, as before
* The TWD reset should be longer (much greater than 1 month) before TWL squads are chosen. (squads should have to be around for longer)
* The number of required games before being eligible for TWL should be larger (the 10 or so previously required is too easy to do)
* Previous season playoff squads reset to 1300-1400 points to seed the ladder and prevent gaining spots by playing only easy squads (this is the only bad part i see with the TWD ladder) previous discussion here

I think it would be cool if after this TWL, playoff squads get reset to 1300 or 1400 points to see if the TWD ladder is still as exploitable. If not, I think running TWD for longer to determine TWL squads (instead of just 1-2 weeks) would work better. Again, TWL has been very fun this season and I don't think anything is in need of drastic "fixing".

[Rogue]

lols

:down:

[a2m+]

WINTER LEAGUE

^^

[Nit]

I severely dislike the idea of forcing lower roster limits. The season is long and people can't always show up, and after a certain time, you can't add to your lineup.

UNLESS what you're saying is that we could have as many as we want for TWD, then have seperate TWL rosters... like I would be on pallies TWLB roster, but not on the LJ or LD rosters, some people could be on two or three rosters within pallies... However, that woudln't accomplish what you're looking for, which is to create more competetive squads.

The most important flaw in your system though, is that not all squads are made just to win TWL... we've got guys on our roster that were here from the beginning.. they suck at spaceships.. we should have to drop them now if we want to compete?

enforce the 35 player limit, even 30 if you must (I think that's too low for a team playing all 3 leagues), but don't go lower than that.

IF we were to lower the rosters of squads then we would have to ensure that players would be able to show up. I think that TWL should be integrated into a week long event. Instead of just saturdays and sundays (because a lot of euros have trouble making it games at certain times and people in other countries) I think TWL should be stretched out weeklong. I.E. have disoblige (for instance) play a game against another euro squad on like a friday @ 11am or 12pm est which would translate to 6pm or 7pm for finland respectively. That way EVERYONE will have a better change of making it to games.

I know myself personally, can only get on @ 10pm est b/c of work. I work during the weekend. I say integrate night games into the mix for Western Hemisphere players just to give everyone a better change of making it to games and highten the enjoyment factor a little.

I know someone brought it up and was asking squads to have night games. I mean, hell, a shitload of TWD games were played at night or during the day for Euros anyway. Why not just continue scheduled matches during the week.

I think we should make 2 leagues, much like premier. You know like Premier league and amateur league sort of thing. I.E. winner of amateur league gets to play in the next Premier league season. Something like that.

I think TWL is essentially fine. There really isn't any problem with it we just need to fine tune it a bit and I think that we should make it a little bit more flexible to encourage participation from EVERYONE not just people that can make it on at a particular time and date.

[bloodzombie]

Like Nit said, I'd love to play some weekday night games, but it seems harder since people work. I get out at 5 on the west coast USA, that's 8pm for east coast USA, so if both squads were completely in the US (and canada, if you're so unlucky), you could happily have games around 8-10 est, but any euros would have a lot of trouble showing up for that.

[bloodzombie]

Another thing...

I said before we've got guys that don't really play TWL because they're not as good as our starters, but I don't want them squadjoined but not on the roster, then they're not part of our TWL team. They're part of what we are whether their ship is in there or not, and if we win a championship of any kind, they're part of that too.

Besides, if we have some easier games, we can get some of those guys in it and let them kick around some bullets.

[Ephemeral]

<sarcasm>

Here's an idea for 'fixing' the league.
We need to get capitalistic about the entire thing, as this will benefit everyone involved. The league should charge squads an entry fee for participating. Squads should pay players. The league should charge people for watching the matches, league would have to share some of this 'gate' income with the squads. Income for the league could then also help pay the staff. Income could also be derived from selling promotional items and things like 'Programs' for each match. Squads could also glean income from corporate sponsorships (banners might have to changed to reflect this sponsorship, ships will fly around looking like NASCAR). Here would be the benefits:
- after paying to even be in the league, few would ever drop out.
- players get paid, no more 'get a life' comments
- league gets income to help pay for servers
- staff gets paid and can be held accountable for the jobs they are responsible for

</sarcasm>