**POSSIBLE** changes to TWLB. Feedback required.

[Turban]

to not derail the topic any further, we hope that anyone who wishes for terrier changes revert back to their old state to provide us proper feedback not fueled by emotion but rather by logic. we urge all players to test out the changes which take effect tomorrow before commenting, and this includes players of all ships not only terriers.

I have yet to see a single proper argument being made as to why terrier should be allowed to have such high swings in potential based on luck alone. I personally agree that certain elements of randomess are necessary to prevent basing from turning into a monotonous experience, but with the new changes we should be at a healthy balance. anyway, always curious to hear more feedback from the community.

[Falconeer]

didn't know Falconeer had an alt account.

unfortunately I have no logs, but I can speak to people in-game to post their thoughts on the forums.

Excuse me? I don't smurf/alias anywhere, and the rare occasion I use another name it's not a secret who I am.

Beyond this I don't bring up arguments of authority, I prefer to discuss ideas at hand. In other words I don't bring in your experience as a player, or how long you've played/staffed etc. That's something you guys enjoy doing to each other though, and you yourself have done that to me. Try again.

Anyway, I agree with the changes so long as they don't deviate from the original terrier settings. In other words so long as you are not getting more bursts on average than in the past, as burst itself is hard to dodge, and just having bursts in base every 10 seconds would be a pain in the ass. But then again, I never played TW 10 years, or even a base game.

To those of you saying there are no good sharks. I find it funny people are saying there are no players, and no good sharks, when you purposely refuse to recruit players, some who are good... Plenty of players not in league, plenty who could become good with just a little bit of guidance too.

P.S you could compromise and make burst rewards a standard at a time interval, but also allow them to be gained through greening, just make them much more rare. Is that currently what you're proposing?

P.S.S Also the argument that it takes away randomness which is fun is easily rebutted. As a single ship you want less randomness for various obvious reasons. The randomness being lost here would also be minimal, especially if you compromise and still reward bursts through greening at some rate. Where you want randomness is in the game-play itself. In other words you want to add three entrances like the map examples I proposed, or you want to bring in and make more ships viable in base league. Any one of those actions would increase randomness lost by terrier changes 500x because you are creating more factors that are harder to control for. The least you can do is test some variation of three entrances and if it comes back even 50/50 in favor/against you can scrap the idea, but if 90% find it enjoyable then you know you have something.

[Majorcrisis2]

to not derail the topic any further, we hope that anyone who wishes for terrier changes revert back to their old state to provide us proper feedback not fueled by emotion but rather by logic. we urge all players to test out the changes which take effect tomorrow before commenting, and this includes players of all ships not only terriers.

I have yet to see a single proper argument being made as to why terrier should be allowed to have such high swings in potential based on luck alone. I personally agree that certain elements of randomess are necessary to prevent basing from turning into a monotonous experience, but with the new changes we should be at a healthy balance. anyway, always curious to hear more feedback from the community.

I havent played terr myself but this is experience on the sharkside with 'old' terr experience. I feel like with the prized burst and port it has been harder to break cram as a terr. With being prized you know your next port is there in 2 min, which makes you play more defensive, no terr wants to die 10x a game. While with the greened ports there is a chance (which is like 50% to my experience) you get a new port while attacking cram. Having burst and port is important on breaking cram. Someone like dreamwin tents to break cram 'solo' in terr, just by being aggressive. The programmed prizing is in favor of the holding team, since that terr isnt as urged to have port and/or burst. Just like the team full charges helps the attacking terr. In my opinion this is only giving advantage to the cram holding terr.

The idea of giving prizes after x amount of total eaten greens is most likely to be in favor of dominating team as well. But then again, it probably is in the old way as well. I like the odd chances that i might not get my terr a port or burst while i eat a bunch of greens, but instead i get extra reps or full charges as spid.

I feel like you want those changes because you are 'smart' enough to count those burst and ports. So you will know when to push the terr down and so on. This given, i think you will be one of the few. Which will make the impact of a great player as you on a game even more. What is there not to like about not knowing if enemy terr does or doesnt have a burst or/and port?


You compare this to other changes in the past. But in my eyes there is nothing 'related' to this. Cramblocks gone, was to break cram easier. Random bullets was just stupid. The other twlb and twbd map fix, was just perfect sense. All the changes actually made perfect sense, but this. With this you make the game more like a chess game to me,.

[Turban]

I took at look at several random basing matches and comparing greens eaten by teams. Many of these differences were made by aggressive players who eat more greens per match than your average player, but overall the losing team eats more greens per match which is largely due to cram break allowing more greens to be picked up.

[Majorcrisis2]

I took at look at several random basing matches and comparing greens eaten by teams. Many of these differences were made by aggressive players who eat more greens per match than your average player, but overall the losing team eats more greens per match which is largely due to cram break allowing more greens to be picked up.

Shows that the prizing benefits the cram holders...

[Turban]

The difference is that losing team is gaining more greens eaten. Winning team greens are on the left side, losing team greens are on the right side. Negative difference means losing team had more greens.

We are removing prizing per X second from the equation and changing it to greens eaten basis. This should make it better for cram breaking too as you eat more greens when attacking a cram, and we could perhaps allow terriers get full charges when picked up by themselves while removing the team bounty greening part of the ship.

[ogron]

is there a timetable on the Portal/Burst timer in the overlay?

[ogron]

oh, i didn't read 2 pages of this... i don't support this new change at all... why randomly change it after a month of testing and good feedback? total nonsense.

there's 3 active TWLB champion terrs: me, mikkiz, and thix. cape isn't active and probably doesn't care, and trasher is same level terr but he only spiders in TWLB. of the top 5-6 terrs of the last 10 years, only cintra is retired.

the opinions that have the most weight are therefore: Mikkiz, Ogron, Thix. If Trasher or Cape chimed in, their opinions are definitely relevant.

Mikkiz and me really like the 120 and 60 second timers: it makes terring harder, requires more skill, and is always fair (you don't get too many bursts/ports or too few). you can play around and use the timers to your advantage (so can spiders who are smart).

Also if you've ever been suspicious of the amount of bursts some terrs get, you should be for this. You can't cheat a system that grants set amounts of burst.

Thix is against it. Most spiders I've talked to are fine with the terr changes. The negative uproar was 99% around removing greens for other ships and shrap, unrelated to the terr changes.

The terr changes are great and should be kept, just need a port/burst 2:00 minute timer on the overlay.

The only person who actually plays the game and knows how to terr and is against it is Thix. The other 2 terrs who play at a high level are for it.

The feedback I've seen is mostly positive on the terr change.

I don't know why you would randomly change it to some new weird system.

Either keep the current system you've put in, which has broad support, or keep all the old settings and change nothing. You can't randomly drop in a new friggin system 1 week before TWL. Make a choice.

[zidane]

It is kinda close to twl to try another. As of right now I think the change was good, terrs were too strong if they fluke bursts and ports. Think majority of people, esp people who dont terr would prob agree. I dont mind the old setting either, more action.

[Turban]

yeah it might be too close to the season start to begin experimenting a new change as drastic as that one, its maybe worth looking at after the league ends. point taken.

Undercut will make the final call on what changes will be implemented to basing as he is the head of this league, but current TWBD settings might be the way to go. we would expand it to ?go base and try to get a timer up and running as soon as possible.

[Heaven]

LOL @ claus... This baffoon thinks hes so superior and doesn't consider these changes are happening twbd and go base... Who the fuk cares if it was only twl cause then it would be the same 4 terrs. Im sorry i didnt realize u terred 100% of the games for every squad to play a basing game. Altho the 15/30 greens does sound like a better idea, it def too late to test it now. Revert settings.

[skyforger]

LOL @ claus... This baffoon thinks hes so superior and doesn't consider these changes are happening twbd and go base... Who the fuk cares if it was only twl cause then it would be the same 4 terrs. Im sorry i didnt realize u terred 100% of the games for every squad to play a basing game. Altho the 15/30 greens does sound like a better idea, it def too late to test it now. Revert settings.

this. can test the greening ratio in go base for the twl/twdt after the upcoming one

[warbirdmaster#1]

oh, i didn't read 2 pages of this... i don't support this new change at all... why randomly change it after a month of testing and good feedback? total nonsense.

there's 3 active TWLB champion terrs: me, mikkiz, and thix. cape isn't active and probably doesn't care, and trasher is same level terr but he only spiders in TWLB. of the top 5-6 terrs of the last 10 years, only cintra is retired.

the opinions that have the most weight are therefore: Mikkiz, Ogron, Thix. If Trasher or Cape chimed in, their opinions are definitely relevant.

Mikkiz and me really like the 120 and 60 second timers: it makes terring harder, requires more skill, and is always fair (you don't get too many bursts/ports or too few). you can play around and use the timers to your advantage (so can spiders who are smart).

Also if you've ever been suspicious of the amount of bursts some terrs get, you should be for this. You can't cheat a system that grants set amounts of burst.

Thix is against it. Most spiders I've talked to are fine with the terr changes. The negative uproar was 99% around removing greens for other ships and shrap, unrelated to the terr changes.

The terr changes are great and should be kept, just need a port/burst 2:00 minute timer on the overlay.

The only person who actually plays the game and knows how to terr and is against it is Thix. The other 2 terrs who play at a high level are for it.

The feedback I've seen is mostly positive on the terr change.

I don't know why you would randomly change it to some new weird system.

Either keep the current system you've put in, which has broad support, or keep all the old settings and change nothing. You can't randomly drop in a new friggin system 1 week before TWL. Make a choice.

How can we conclude the decision based on TWLB CHAMPIONS TERRIERS? Just because you're fortunate to be on a team that is willing to terr you in the games doesn't mean that there aren't terrs that are equally skilled. To me, it sounds extremely arrogant to exclude others in the decision when it affects ?go base/twbd/twlb

LOGICALLY speaking, why the fuck do you want terr to be harder? In my experience, in a base game, the less deaths the terr has, the closer the game is. I thought the basis of the changes is to have less blowout games.

As someone that plays spider, I would LOVE to see less bursts in game cause I die to them all day. However, as a player, the changes that were made to terr seem to take the fun out of basing in general. Less randomness, less action.

I would love to hear the positive inputs of the players that Ogron and Turban mentioned. Seems like they haven't seen this thread yet.

Subspace is a small community nowadays, and having changes made based on the opinions on certain individuals seems unfair.

If I may suggest, we have a vote on these changes and see what the majority says.

[Heaven]

How can we conclude the decision based on TWLB CHAMPIONS TERRIERS? Just because you're fortunate to be on a team that is willing to terr you in the games doesn't mean that there aren't terrs that are equally skilled. To me, it sounds extremely arrogant to exclude others in the decision when it affects ?go base/twbd/twlb

i really have to agree here... he thinks 3 terrs can speak for the other 20 that play terr in twbd/base. plus in all honestly he's talking real tough sitting behind thunder, if he were making the same claims terring for an inferior squadron i could take him more seriously. I really do not give a shit what ogron/mikkiz/thix think when majority hates the changes, its going to ruin the fun of casual basing for all the rest of us. If majority was for the change then I would accept the fact that I'm wrong and will have to adapt to the new settings but this is farrrrr from the case. also like wbm said, run that vote to see who actually wants the change. Also. im fairly certain turban asked a relatively biased target group on what they thought about the changes and isn't even considering what the other 85% of want.

[ogron]

lol "fortunate", eat shit. I've been the best terr in this game for 5 years. nobody is "willing" to start me in anything, i left Thunder before to start elsewhere in TWLB instead of benching and earned my spot outplaying everyone else at the position. honestly you sound like every bitter scrub who thinks there's some conspiracy against them and they'd win if someone just added them. the reality is you're a dice bencher who was content having the "Dice" tag instead of starting elsewhere and earning a title. Thunder banned Cintra and benched Cape -- two of the greatest terrs of all-time. There's no free rides here. The best player's start. I've been benched and booted from Thunder/Pandora, too. There's no friendship discounts. If I don't perform S22 I'll be riding the pine for someone else, I'm sure.

Keep telling yourself whatever you want, though.

I didn't say the decision should be based solely on those terrs, only that their feedback is extremely valuable, and should carry more weight. there's a short timeframe, and you need people who can push the changes to the ship to their maximum fast, i.e., testing the limits of double-bursting at :01, how it feels in the cram, when you're up, when you're down, terrs who use their ports efficiency to get a real feel for the 2 minute gap, hunting enemy terrs who used their burst knowing they don't have one, and seeing if it works.

99% of the zone won't be doing any of that, and their opinion on how terr plays is of little value from the terr perspective.

From the spider perspective, it's been mostly positive or neutral from most players. Most can't even tell the difference.

LoL champions that aren't broken in Bronze/Silver/Gold but at the top level in Diamond are broken get nerfed -- you go by the top players, not the bottom ones for balance changes. Mikkiz's opinion is worth way more than Heaven's in terms of useful feedback, because if a change is broken, it's way more likely Mikkiz will find it than he will.

Yeah, let's give Jessup and Jebass the same voting weight as Cripple and Trasher. Good idea, man. Forum voting has to be the dumbest idea I can think of.

Honestly, I don't care that much, I'll play under the old settings or the new ones, but the new ones are interesting, fairer, and require more talent and if you're a spider you should be in love with the changes as they're a godsend once you realize how to play around the clock.