TWLB Semi-finals Plade vs. Fire Appeal

[Rab]

But you don't have to kill entire cram to break, 2 spiders with a shark CAN kill 3 spiders without, leaving 2 spiders left. Mikkiz can crash through 2 spiders, especially since they will have already been shooting. Mikkiz also could have bursted. There are too many what if's. The game was not over, at high level of play anything can still happen.

That's what the 1% is about.

[Nipple Nibbler]

I can say it, did say it, and believe it to be true.

But you don't have to kill entire cram to break, 2 spiders with a shark CAN kill 3 spiders without, leaving 2 spiders left. Mikkiz can crash through 2 spiders, especially since they will have already been shooting. Mikkiz also could have bursted. There are too many what if's. The game was not over, at high level of play anything can still happen.

[renzi]

If what dreamwin did isn’t illegal, then the conversation should stop right there. I think it would be shortsighted to give Fire the benefit of the doubt based off of conjecture.

[Poseidon]

Wow. So much could be said. I could perhaps dwell upon the notion that had either team secured me in their starting line noone would be having this convo. Or maybe I could go down the road of ridicule where I lambast Fire for bawling and pouting like such grand idiots that they might well have ruined it for themselves by being too stubborn to accept a replay. I'd at some juncture probably take a quick detour to shine some light on Kado's performance going about as poorly as I'd have predicted. Or I could even go so far as to point out in a play-by-play where certain players are basically clueless and consistently failing themselves and their team. I'd probably also note that, as a (Championship) captain in the Basing Cup, I macro'd !change for my sharks to re-rep in an emergency - I simply forgot to do it, but I acknowledged it as fair game and a well known mechanic of the league. Ship was invisible? ask for a REPLAY you fkn bitter idiots, or sink with the stubborn feedback-loop that is your pride. this is basically my take on the situation as it currently stands.

But instead I'd like to focus my attention on what I'd deem the most insidious and obnoxious of the wyrms I see crawling around here... it can be seen most vividly in all of its unholy glory via Stayon's inane ramble of post, but its appearance is noted much elsewhere as well. It essence lies within some idea that because this is year 2020, or season 23 orwhatevr, or bc ur 30+ years old or blah blah, that people ought to "care less" about the game. This is such a disingenuous and stupid fucking notion. Ill just give a quick example: Lets take a player like Rough. Imagine Rough 15 years ago, when he'd probably admit to "caring" about the game. He was probably just as irrelevant, tried just as hard, and had some similar insecure fuckboy disposition akin to the one he carries now, but the point is, he was playing the game hours each day, same as today.

What kind of idiot spends hours and hours every week doing something and then immediately turns around and tries to call it irrelevant or devalued as a way to spend said time? This is the basic goddamn premise of Stayon's thesis and it is echo'd in the sentiment of many others around here, and I find it absolutely abhorrent and utterly self-defeating, and I wish you'd all shut the fuck up.

[Rab]

you can't 100% truthfully say Fire had the game won.

I can say it, did say it, and believe it to be true.

[Dwopple]

Plade won. Many squads have been screwed over by "unfair" bugs, glitches, dumb fucking bots, flag jupes, lag, etc. in the past and nothing was done to rectify it. Refer to Stayon's post. Instead, rules or bots were fixed after the fact. Those of you asking for "hard proof" of these injustices are literally going against Fire's argument of keeping the "integrity" of TWL. Laugh.

The community remembers.

If this appeal is granted you're literally slapping the face of everyone who was "wronged" in past TWL seasons. Again, refer to Stayon's post.

This was a known issue pre-TWL and nothing was done. That isn't DW's or Plade's fault. You can't change outcomes because you don't like what happened, that's not how it works.

Was it lame? Oh, fuck yeah, but move on like many have before you.

Congrats, Plade!

[Nipple Nibbler]

I think we are missing a very valid point here. Anyone making a ship change will do it as fast as possible. Fire's has every right to be angry over what happened, but forfeit is going too far, and who's to say a shark couldn't have bombed that repless cram? Plade had a shark with reps for those 2 spiders, I can kill 2-3 spiders myself at close range with a shark when opponent spiders have no shark, and I am only an 8* spider. 99% is "fake news", you can't 100% truthfully say Fire had the game won.

[Rab]

Bottom line is that you should stop with the witch hunts and outrageous demands of forfeits and bans. It is not productive or helpful at all.

It is if you believe you won the game and were robbed by a cheater. From that perspective it's not productive or helpful to derail with other scenarios in which a bot can be abused, but wasn't in this game so is therefore irrelevant to this appeal.

[zidane]

please provide any proof of me ever bypassing my death timer, i'd like to see it turban. also I never said dreamwin should be banned, I do think plade should forfeit since they lost the game.

also you should get off your highhorse, it is not suitable for someone who admitted he

[ronaldinho]

Here some thoughts about what I read :

-I agree with Zidane (or was Ogron) that if you inversed the positions, people would still support the same team, ie not Fire. Most of them would call it cheating if it was done by a Fire player I'm well convinced.

-Most intriguing post is one of Singer's. So if someone lose an appeal he can't play next game right? That's fun I bet most people never knew that. Also the answer must be made about the exact appeal ie forfeit for Plade? So if they say no forfeit but we replay it's another proof that rules here have absolutely no meaning right? Also isn't 24 hours or something to give an answer? I don't even know. But it's maybe time to stop making rules, or to respect them, right now it looks like a circus.

-Ogron comparing Dreamwin invisible javing with a white cop killing a black man. BLM brother, you got some good points here.

What a mess..





But I vote Dreamwin2020 I hope the guy who gonna make the decision only gonna refers to rules and not his personal opinion. And adapt rules for future season if necessary. And do what Turban said.

[Turban]

Don't try to play devil's advocate with me, Zidane. You have unknowingly abused this "glitch" in the past, which has been witnessed by many other players and even mentioned several times in this thread. Does this mean you deserve to be on the banning block? The answer is no, in case you were wondering .. common sense.

In the end there is no way to prove something that has happened in the past 20 years without video proof. I know for a fact it has happened few times in TWDT and TWL, and I'm not even speaking of the latest season where I had heard it happened once again and was caught on camera. Whether we speak about shark mines or bombs being cleared mere seconds before impact which would kill one's own team, invisible warbirds or spiders killing key targets immediately after ship switches/changes, or javelins causing a team wipe. Sometimes these are done in the last minute of the game (which makes it more "memorable"), and at times they are done much earlier on. It is not as uncommon as you think, but doesn't happen as often as it used to due to specials not being as powerful.

In my honest opinion is that it does not matter when this abuse of bot mechanics happens. It still gives a large advantage to the team abusing it and affects the outcome of the game. I do not believe it is right to do it, and thus honestly our first priority should be to fix the bots to ensure it does not happen again.

Bottom line is that you should stop with the witch hunts and outrageous demands of forfeits and bans. It is not productive or helpful at all.

[zidane]

I'd like to see any proof you have of these moments that had a massive impact on a game, besides dreamwin doing it twice in 2020

Also just because something happened in the past, doesn't make it right. Just cause you were wronged by some bullshit doesn't mean it's ok for someone to be wronged the same way 5 years later

[Nipple Nibbler]

LOL singer, with much needed comic relief

[Turban]

sorry turb, disagree with you on this one and i am definitely not talking out of my ass when I say I have never seen an invisible jav. you clearly have based off the your comment in the video "classic invis jav trick", so you admitted he was invisible to everyone. good talk

Sorry, but I have seen invisible javelins, invisible warbirds, invisible sharks, invisible spiders .. like I said, hundreds of times in basing games, and you have as well but perhaps you simply haven't paid as much attention to it. These moments of invisibility range from being completely harmless to the game (as in someone attaches to the terrier and immediately dies, or they end up waiting to recharge, or the ship change was done with only seconds remaining on the respawn timer) to very advantageous (such as invisible shark attaching and using a repel once to save the terrier or team, ship switching while a mine is flying towards the cram to make it disappear while that shark is still dead) all the way to game-breaking levels such as what happened with Dreamwin where your team has almost no chance to react. I have seen the more extreme variant of this happen roughly 10 times in the history of me playing basing, and few times while spectating games, and honestly I don't think those "abuses" were ever done with the intent of actually taking advantage of a design flaw with the bots but rather were done in the heat of the moment as a last ditch effort.

Nevertheless my point is that in most cases this issue ends up not being very harmful to the game, and most players won't even register it happening as it did not impact the game as much. Truthfully speaking roughly 95% of players in basing are the tunnel visioning type and do not really pay attention to what is going on in all parts of the game which would explain why this glitch is not as widely known.

In the end this "glitch" (which to be fair is more of a bot error and/or design flaw) can easily be replicated one by simply issuing a ship switch or change command while a player is still in middle of respawning. It happens VERY OFTEN when people are switching ships in middle of basing matches as it involves two players.

The reason this glitch happens in the first place is because other game clients (not yours) still believe you are in middle of respawning despite the bot forcing you into another ship, and thus you will not reappear on their screens until the death timer has expired.

It is an easy fix.

[zidane]

sorry turb, disagree with you on this one and i am definitely not talking out of my ass when I say I have never seen an invisible jav. you clearly have based off the your comment in the video "classic invis jav trick", so you admitted he was invisible to everyone. good talk