TWLB Semi-finals Plade vs. Fire Appeal

[Pressure]

Thix.......... be a little more hypocritical. we all know you would 100% appeal this and would be just as upset. people are blinded by their hatred at the moment, very embarrassing stuff. our cram was perfectly healthy, we had 5 spids alive and they were not in position to push at all with only 2 spiders on the wrong side of cram. I do agree it wasn't a 100% certainty, nothing ever is til you reach 15 mins. Dwin shouldn't have even been alive, let alone be an invisible jav.

There were no ultimatums in my post, it is up to the decision makers to decide what happens, if they think we need to replay Rd 3 we will do that. Everyone on fire thinks we won the match and that dreamwin blatantly cheated, given our odds at the time, we feel we deserve to win the match outright. Also these claims that this stuff happens all the time is completely wrong, I have played thousands of base rounds I have NEVER seen that.

There are multiple players on Plade who think this should be appealed, and someone on Plade who PLAYED the match reached out to me and said we won, and that we were cheated (I have screenshots). When your own teammates think you lost that says a lot.

Disclaimer, I was not around during the prior appeal of this move in TWDTB, and so my background on the specific topic of this "lag attach glitch" is limited.

Given my position as a prior TWLB champion, a long-time baser, and a co-leader on a current TWLB finalist squad, I am aware that what I say publicly can and may be used in the decision-making process or may even be used for/against me personally in the future after the decision is made. I am trying to remain as objective and unbiased as possible, which is why despite liking Plade more as people, I have refrained from immediately jumping on the bandwagon against Fire. Currently, I have not publicly stated a firm stance since I do not have one yet. The only stance I am taking is that a forced forfeit is too harsh a punishment for a team who manipulated a known glitch that the opposing team's captain, who is also a TWL op, knew about, dealt with in prior appeals, and, within his power, could have made a rule that would have prevented its use in TWL.

I too have never seen the move that dreamwin made. In fact, I didn't know this "glitch" existed. Is it even a glitch? Can we reproduce what happened on video, multiple times, and show that it is indeed something that can be manipulated with precision? I do know dreamwin as a player and gambler is a serious try-hard and will do whatever it takes to win, but dreamwin would never knowingly cheat and break rules that are set in stone. This is a fact. If dreamwin's actions were indeed deliberate (I am not ascribing to this without more proof), then he was functioning well within the described TWL rules, and had there been a rule against this move, there is zero chance dreamwin would have jeopardized the integrity of the game, his team, and the league.

As someone who has squadded closely with dreamwin for multiple seasons and served leadership positions side-by-side with him, I am reluctant to accuse dreamwin of malicious cheating/abuse. He is a really good guy and a strong/fair leader. As a current and prior assistant and captain of multiple contending basing squads, I do believe that the narrative that dreamwin proposed is possible, that he tried to make the ship change as fast as he possibly could in the moment and ended up with a lucky bomb. If you watch closely, he actually switched late in the cram break, when they were already entering, and almost fucked his team with the change. I was even typing out how bad of a decision it was in spec chat, but never sent the message because he ultimately broke cram.

zidane, I have never denied that gunmin would be just as angry and up in arms over this. However, ask anyone in spec chat or in my private chats, I was warning others not to underestimate Fire's will to win and even said Fire would win when you guys were down 13-9 in round 3. Yes, I have an opportunity here to use my power and voice to rebuttal every argument that you, claushouse, and the rest of Fire make, and I can easily try harder to push the tide in Plade's favor, but I refuse to involve myself without more information and I refuse to take sides knowing the implications of the decision and also the responsibility I have to the league as an active and influential player to maintain its integrity.

Despite past and current differences, and despite ongoing rivalries, I am not your enemy right now, nor am I even trying to come off as your enemy, and I am not trying to take sides or smear Fire in any way. I am far from delusional. I am merely doing my best to provide objective input while avoiding facing animosity for making premature claims or taking sides.

[Turban]

I have seen this "glitch" be used hundreds of times in basing with various levels of severity, whether its in the form of ship changes or switches, thus Zidane is definitely speaking out of his ass. It can still be done in TWBD as far as I am aware unless it was very recently fixed with the bots. He himself has avoided death timer few times in the past to clear mines or reset repels, but likely not paid any attention to it as it looks completely normal on one's own screen.

The best course of action is to implement my proposed bot changes to all competitive basing arenas (TWDT, TWL, BWC, Base, TSL) to ensure it doesn't happen again in the future.

There are a lot of confusing or annoying game mechanics which can not be fixed such as repel ignores (complicated topic), ghost attaching, illusionary ships when cutting corners, instant respawn glitches, and the list goes on. However ships being invisible after a ship change/switch is not really a standard game glitch and it is very easy to prevent from happening in the first place.

[Gkyde1234]

Have never seen this happen before. Must be because heaven is using modified graphics.

[zidane]

Singer just spent more time writing that post than he did playing twlj playoffs this weekend

[skyforger]

skyforger I spoke to our coders and asked them to make sure the settings in TWLB were identical to TWBD. that my was input on TWLB settings, I was told it was done and ready to go. I don't have access myself to go and check everything.

I think you are confusing ship/arena settings and bot settings. The ship change limitation is done by a bot command setting. You can't have possibly asked for bot settings to be made identical. They must be different because the leagues are very different: no way did you ask coders to allow unlimited borrows in TWLB for example.

As it stands - seems unreasonable to require a captain to not shipchange a player as fast as he can when they decide to or for said player not to shoot as fast as he can. This is what is being suggested Dreamwin should have done to not have his squad forfeit their win, right? Applying same mental gymnastics, you should only be allowed to rep twice because you somehow eat too much nevermind that game mechanics in place allow you to have 3 reps, you should know better.

[Singer]

So can we get some names on who these "decision makers" are already???

Is it gonna be people that are either clueless or feigning ignorance about this "bug" like our TWL OP?? Or people like the other 80% of the zones that all seemed to know about it?

How can you crybabies even throw the word cheat around so deliberately at dreamwin who's pulled off the jav ship change so many times in the past in these exact same kind of unfavorable situations in order to spark a possible comeback? There's 0 way of dreamwin knowing his ship was invisible, his ship was obviously visible on his screen and he wasn't getting hit by any of your "perfect unbeatable cram that had a 99% chance of winning", the fact you didn't see dreamwin is is all based off how the server feels like acting up and how settings are run.

Literally everyone in spec mode and on Fire saw the ship change being announced in pub, if you decide to have a shit defenseless cram during that moment that's on you.

There's 0 rules stating you can't pull off a shipchange while someone is dead and it's just common sense that you'd want to do it while you're dead.

If anyone cheated you, it's the server, not dreamwin. So now let's ban the server, it made Fire lose. :'(

[Rab]

I see, so in other words you made the 99% up.

It's a good way of communicating near certainty.
Maybe it triggers math nerds idk.

[zidane]

skyforger I spoke to our coders and asked them to make sure the settings in TWLB were identical to TWBD. that my was input on TWLB settings, I was told it was done and ready to go. I don't have access myself to go and check everything.

@major I never said dwin should be banned, as far as I'm concerned plade's twl season is finished and there is no reason to ban dwin. I am speaking as a captain when I say that to be clear. our appeal is on the basis that dwin exploited bugs multiple times in the final minute of the game. the bottom line is that dwin would not have been alive, definitely not been invisible, had he not exploited a bug that he himself admitted to knowing was a bug earlier in the year.

[skyforger]

Fire had a full cram, Plade were mostly dead, Fire needed 30s to win. It's just extremely unlikely that Plade would have overcome that situation.
I would have liked to see them try, unfortunately the invisible jav ruined it.

I see, so in other words you made the 99% up.

[olde]

Fire got slapped by an amazing quick, legal, and extremely CLUTCH ship change! Point blank period... GG boyz

[Majorcrisis2]

Thix.......... be a little more hypocritical. we all know you would 100% appeal this and would be just as upset. people are blinded by their hatred at the moment, very embarrassing stuff. our cram was perfectly healthy, we had 5 spids alive and they were not in position to push at all with only 2 spiders on the wrong side of cram. I do agree it wasn't a 100% certainty, nothing ever is til you reach 15 mins. Dwin shouldn't have even been alive, let alone be an invisible jav.

There were no ultimatums in my post, it is up to the decision makers to decide what happens, if they think we need to replay Rd 3 we will do that. Everyone on fire thinks we won the match and that dreamwin blatantly cheated, given our odds at the time, we feel we deserve to win the match outright. Also these claims that this stuff happens all the time is completely wrong, I have played thousands of base rounds I have NEVER seen that.

There are multiple players on Plade who think this should be appealed, and someone on Plade who PLAYED the match reached out to me and said we won, and that we were cheated (I have screenshots). When your own teammates think you lost that says a lot.

This shit has happened a lot in base. Saw multiple players get changed there and appear after the 'respawan timer' would have run out. To call this cheating is kinda harsh imo. Just like the demand of banning dreamwin. (allthough I think the guy quits anyway if this gets granted) (just like I feel some fire ppl would) In my opinion the chances fire would have won are like 80-20, if not 90-10. Like you said yourself a game is over when a team hits 15 mins. I hate that this affects such a nice season. If i had to decide on this, I would like replay with 5 mins lead for fire, maybe even some more.

I just hate how both sides are achting atm. You obviously dont like each other, but demanding bans is really sad. Especially if you manupilated multiple twdt seasons yourself to win easily. .. (lews therin for example ) dreamwin should have known better, but in the end this should have been prevented just like the shark to shark switch was removed in the past to clear mines (I even think changing a shark should be removed and only allow switching them with like a
1 minute 'ban' to switch these players again). This is exploiting a bug as much as shipchanging while dead like dw to me.

[Rab]

Did you really not know that about ship changes Rab?

Yep never seen it. & Never want to see it again.

[Rab]

question for rab: how did you calculate your 99% winning position

Fire had a full cram, Plade were mostly dead, Fire needed 30s to win. It's just extremely unlikely that Plade would have overcome that situation.
I would have liked to see them try, unfortunately the invisible jav ruined it.

[WillBy]

Did you really not know that about ship changes Rab? It occurs all the time in zombie type events, and you can get a similar effect in spawnfest javufc (killing before enemy even appears). It occurs in put at the moment when round begins. It's rare in basing matches I'll admit, but I havent played nearly that long and I would classify this as a common bug. It's easily replicable (not in a cramming situation). Ill also add that it was unavoidable for dreamwin. Of course you ship switch as soon as possible. And he would be perfectly visible on his screen, and vulnerable to bullets (again, not in cram).
I'm not here saying if it was legal or not. It's a common bug is all, its up to qan or whoever to determine if the bug was abused.

[zidane]

Thix.......... be a little more hypocritical. we all know you would 100% appeal this and would be just as upset. people are blinded by their hatred at the moment, very embarrassing stuff. our cram was perfectly healthy, we had 5 spids alive and they were not in position to push at all with only 2 spiders on the wrong side of cram. I do agree it wasn't a 100% certainty, nothing ever is til you reach 15 mins. Dwin shouldn't have even been alive, let alone be an invisible jav.

There were no ultimatums in my post, it is up to the decision makers to decide what happens, if they think we need to replay Rd 3 we will do that. Everyone on fire thinks we won the match and that dreamwin blatantly cheated, given our odds at the time, we feel we deserve to win the match outright. Also these claims that this stuff happens all the time is completely wrong, I have played thousands of base rounds I have NEVER seen that.

There are multiple players on Plade who think this should be appealed, and someone on Plade who PLAYED the match reached out to me and said we won, and that we were cheated (I have screenshots). When your own teammates think you lost that says a lot.