TWLB Semi-finals Plade vs. Fire Appeal

[Pressure]

add a screenshot of the invisible jav bomb while you're at it mythril

The argument you are making is that the jav itself was not visible, though, right? Just making sure, since the bomb is extremely visible, even in the video.

[Rab]

The argument you are making is that the jav itself was not visible, though, right? Just making sure, since the bomb is extremely visible, even in the video.

Yeah the bomb was visible, the jav was not. From my perspective as a spider, seeing the bomb is useless because I can't shoot it.

[Dwopple]

TWLB] Pandora vs. Fire 15:00 - 13:22 17 May 2020 21:43:06

,-------------------,-------K-----D----TK---FT--TeKs--RPD----Rtg--LO---Note------------------Time--.

| Pandora / 574 | 572 | 4 | 16 | 7 | 3.0 | 2963 | 1 | Win (+1:38) 28:26 |

|-----------------' | | | | | | | | |

| Azuline 84 | 75 | | | | | 417 | | |

| *diakka 118 | 50 | | 1 | 1 | | 543 | | |

| Joeses <ZH> (S) 5 | 116 | 1 | 7 | 1 | 3.0 | 120 | | |

| Markmrw (S) 12 | 119 | 3 | 1 | | 3.0 | 139 | | |

| MousE 110 | 61 | | 2 | | | 513 | | |

| renzi 107 | 69 | | 1 | 1 | | 502 | | |

| sarger 105 | 74 | | | 1 | | 494 | | |

| tim =T= 33 | 8 | | 4 | 3 | | 235 | 1 | |

+-------------------,----------+-----+----+----+----+-----+------+---+-----------------------------+

| Fire / 568 | 577 | 3 | 16 | 8 | 2.9 | 2163 | 0 | Lose (-1:38) 28:26 |

|-----------------' | | | | | | | | |

| Ease 104 | 81 | | 6 | | | 393 | | |

| hellkite 103 | 62 | | | 2 | | 389 | | |

| kado 95 | 62 | | | 3 | | 360 | | |

| mcvicar (S) 2 | 118 | 1 | 1 | | 3.0 | 11 | | |

| ogron =T= 45 | 7 | | 1 | 2 | | 184 | | |

| ro 115 | 55 | | 1 | | | 434 | | |

| TPZ 91 | 67 | | 5 | 1 | | 345 | | |

| zidane (S) 1 | 12 | 2 | | | 3.2 | 47 | | Switch to Spider 3:45 |

| zidane (S) 12 | 113 | 0 | 2 | | 2.8 | 47 | | |

`------------------------------------------------------------------------I=IN---O=OUT---S=SWITCH---


Please explain why you switched to spider real quick then back to shark?

I *edit: ALMOST* GUARANTEE HE DID THIS WHILE HE WAS DEAD. WHERE'S THE VID?

[Rab]

I GUARANTEE HE DID THIS WHILE HE WAS DEAD. WHERE'S THE VID?

Camera was always aimed at base so you won't see it.
Edit: nvm thought this was from this game, but it's some other game, no idea if that was recorded.

[Pressure]

Pressure i'd want dreamwin to have to wait 5 seconds to respawn like every other player did that game but him, then i'd like him to be actually visible when he does attach

Unless there was a rule already in place, no one who is ship changing is going to wait in spawn for 5 seconds with less than 40 seconds on the clock for the opposing team. This is an unrealistic expectation.

I despise specials and I hope after this fiasco they are banned from TWL for good, but for argument's sake, if it were my team and we wanted to jav turban, I'd make the shipchange as soon as I possibly could, and then I'd change back as soon as I didn't need it anymore. I would never consider "waiting" after the change so I don't appear "invisible", and I would expect turban would attach immediately as well.

Never in my career in TW have I been killed by an "invisible player" who attached after being ship changed during respawn, and I am one of the 5% turban mentioned who actually pay attention to the whole game. Not once has this ever happened to me or during any game I've spectated or to any individual player I've spectated. Ever.

I'm not saying the appeal is moot, I'm still undecided, but the fact that a glitch I didn't know about is now surfacing 20 years after I started playing is suspect, which is why I requested footage of a third party demonstrating its reproducibility.

[Nipple Nibbler]

On a brighter note I would like to thank zidane and Dreamwin for reviving the forums since this thread will most likely reach 200 posts today.

[Nipple Nibbler]

Unless there was a rule already in place, no one who is ship changing is going to wait in spawn for 5 seconds with less than 40 seconds on the clock for the opposing team. This is an unrealistic expectation.

I despise specials and I hope after this fiasco they are banned from TWL for good, but for argument's sake, if it were my team and we wanted to jav turban, I'd make the shipchange as soon as I possibly could, and then I'd change back as soon as I didn't need it anymore. I would never consider "waiting" after the change so I don't appear "invisible", and I would expect turban would attach immediately as well.

Never in my career in TW have I been killed by an "invisible player" who attached after bring ship changed during respawn, and I am one of the 5% turban mentioned who actually pay attention to the whole game. Not once has this ever happened to me or during any game I've spectated or to any individual player I've spectated. Ever.

I'm not saying the appeal is moot, I'm still undecided, but the fact that a glitch I didn't know about is now surfacing 20 years after I started playing is suspect, which is why I requested footage of a third party demonstrating its reproducibility.

Nobody would wait an extra 5 seconds because their ship might be bugged.

I have seen this bug happen several times this year alone with invisible sharks mining the flag room, I never bothered to try to figure it out or report it since staff are understaffed and rarely fix bugs anyways. Hell they barely answer help calls.

[renzi]

Nice edit renzi after saying we had 99% chance to win in your post LOL... this thread is just a popularity contest atm and Plade is the hot cheerleader. Being derailed by people with grudges and mentions of old bugs happening that are irrelevant to what happened in this game. The only thing that matters is whether an invisible jav killing 6 people impacted the result of the game and whether invisible javs are intended to be a part of TWLB.

I edited it because I was being redundant and made my point twice in the same post, but worded differently. Yes, originally I had even if you guys had a 99% chance of winning. That doesn’t change my point whatsoever. I wasn’t there to watch, so I’m just going off of the other claims in this thread that Fire had a 99% chance. And yeah I edited this post now too to include the last sentence.

[zidane]

Pressure, how can you say that you've never been killed by an invisible player than not agree with this appeal? Do you think an invisible jav belongs in TWLB, and it's ok that it had a massive impact deciding the outcome of the game? I have NEVER seen this in my life and I have probably based more than 99% of players. It's just common sense really that this does not belong in our games. You don't need an explicit rule saying invisible javs are not allowed.

Also yes, the bomb is very visible, I meant dreamwin is invisible. The guy dies 1 second earlier bum rushing our cram as a spider, you don't expect him to be invisible in a jav 2 seconds later bombing your entire team. I am very aware players will change themselves when dead, it still does NOT mean it should reset your timer and instantly spawn you. There's a massive difference between changing yourself before you spawn, and completely skipping your 5 second timer. Then you add on top of that the fact that he is literally INVISIBLE, it makes it a complete joke to this zone & league.

[Riverside]

I *edit: ALMOST* GUARANTEE HE DID THIS WHILE HE WAS DEAD. WHERE'S THE VID?

Lol yup... to clarify zid, people are coming after your integrity because you CLEARLY have abused this bug and contributed to it being common practice. People don't dislike you because you've won titles, or because the only person who seems to be counting how many finals you've made in the last 5 years when nobody's been playing is ogron.

They dislike you because you do shit like this, and because you're an asshole.

It's unreal to me you guys are still asking for a forfeit. This is a 50/50 appeal for a replay, and based off Myth's screenshots, it probably shouldn't be granted.

[Heaven]

ehhh lol

[renzi]

lol @ renzi arguing our case then realising her mistake and editing it

Me saying even if you had a 99% chance doesn’t argue your case. It was to make the point that your argument is based off conjecture.

[Rab]

For the people who don't understand what we're talking about, it might help if you actually watched the clip:
https://www.twitch.tv/heafin/clip/Su...fuAMPTropPunch

[ronaldinho]

For the people who don't understand what we're talking about, it might help if you actually watched the clip:
https://www.twitch.tv/heafin/clip/Su...fuAMPTropPunch

? Apparently there is 5 seconds between Dreamwin's death and the bomb that appear from nowhere

[Tsunami]

Decision Makers,

Insofar as you are having trouble deciding how to go about assessing the merits of the appeal, a general appeals process should assess the following, in order:

1. Applicable Rules - What do the TWL rules say? Are there any "on point"? In other words, have rules been written that cover this exact scenario?

2. Non-Applicable Rules - If you look at the TWL rules as a whole, are there rules that can be used to assess the appeal at hand, even if they are otherwise not applicable?

3. "Intent" of the Rules - Do we have recorded instances of what the drafters intended to cover when the rules were put together?

4. Rules from other Sources - Can we use other rules within TW generally to apply to this appeal? An example is the rules posted at A1 in ?go

5. Equitable Considerations - If you have made it down this far, then none of the above apply. At this point, its important to look at the "equities" of the circumstances. In other words, what is fair given everything we know?

Again, this is merely a framework that should likely be followed to give some semblance of order and integrity to the appeals process. No commentary otherwise.