question about eligibility/squadhopping

[Randedl]

i don't think there should be a rematch. the rules clearly say that decisions are final.

but i think in the future this mistake can be easily avoidable?

if it is a mistake. still waiting on a twlop's decision.

[Nosey]

why the hell are you talking about "rounds" in the rules when each game is one fucking round. talk about the cooldown like one "twl week"...
round is such a weak term to put into the rules when each game is one round

[Cross]

why the hell are you talking about "rounds" in the rules when each game is one fucking round. talk about the cooldown like one "twl week"...
round is such a weak term to put into the rules when each game is one round

How about you read it all again or don`t say anything. FUCKIN´ BASER!

I just had this feeling to say something :fear:

-cross-

[Lofty]

Obviously you think that somehow 2d and I bypassed the rules using some sort of method. - Epinephrine

No, but I do suspect that TWL Staff may have favorably turned a blind eye towards interpretation of the rule hoping people wouldn't persue it, whereas with someone else they may have actually enforced it otherwise.

--Edit--

6.06 All judgments and decisions made by the Trench Wars League Staff are final. There is no appealing a final judgment.

That's a pretty horrible rule. So if a game was played, and then squad A sends an appeal that Squad B had doublesquadders playing, but TWL staff finds no proof of it and denies the appeal and then like a week later it actually becomes confirmed that doublesquadders did play in that match, no forfeit or rematch will be made because a decision was already made before that? Pretty ridiculous sounding.

[Darkmoor]

The issue is whether you like to think of proceeding as applying to 'full round' or 'a part of a round'. I tend to think of it as the latter. Why? Because I believe the spirit of the rule is to not let someone play two games in the same weekend for two different squads, which is obviously something bad for the league.

This isn't an issue. The rule clearly speaks of rounds, which means full rounds. If it were to include rounds that are currently in progress, it should be mentioned. It doesn't matter if the squads in question hadn't yet played the matches, it still isn't a full round.

Also, it doesn't matter what the spirit of the rule is when it's in conflict with the written rule. If someone misses the matches in both weeks, you can only blame yourself for leaving when a round was in progress.

So let us look at the results again. The written rule was broken, TWL ops didn't care about this, instead some unknown spirit of the rule wasn't broken and suddenly it was okay. Now, this can lead us to assume that other rules may be broken in a similiar way as long as this spirit of the rule isn't broken.

[Adeon]

And now for some important, breaking news..... Cannonball!!

Take your chances, man! If you're a TWL Op, green light spirits for you.

Think about it this way... if a player gets axed on Saturday at 2pm EST... does that mean they can't play 2 rounds in a row even if they find a new squad right away? C'mon.

Yes, c'mon. Think about it this way... if a player leaves a squad on Sunday at 4pm EST, does that mean they get to play 2 rounds in a row just because they find a squad right away? Oops, that actually happened. Remind me to come up with a better hypothetical.

The rule is there to prevent people from playing 2 games for 2 squads in the same week.

If that is the purpose, then that is what it should say. "No one is allowed to play 2+ games for 2+ squads in the same week." So simple. So unambiguous. What's with all the other worthless crap about proceeding rounds and cool downs and rubbish you attached to it?

- Read the rules, there is no bend, Epi & I waited our week to the T.
- I left the roster of Venom 1 week and no less prior to participating in a TWL match, as did Epi; although I still remained physically squad joined until later that evening. (I was playing hockey zone.)

You (presumably) waited a week, that's great. The only problem is, there's no "one week" or "seven day" or "168 hour" cool down period stated in the rules.

Appeal denied, TWL Op sanctioned, complaints vetoed. Case closed.

For someone so "high up", being a smart ass and belittling the points of everyone who disagrees with you, simply because things went your way (with no nudging at all, I'm sure), doesn't help anything. Particularly when just about everyone who disagrees with you here has believed that any normal player would've been amply "dealt with" by now, from the moment they saw "Appeals:denied... 2dragons playing for Pirates" and saw that you had, in fact, played two consecutive rounds on two different squads. Which a conspicuous majority of players were under the obviously mistaken impression that you could not do.

[Nosey]

How about you read it all again or don`t say anything. FUCKIN´ BASER!

I just had this feeling to say something :fear:

-cross-

or how bout you read it all again and insert twl week wherever it says round...

[Randedl]

good post adeon.

anyways, lofty, that is not what the case at hand is.

all of the facts are clearly laid out and the decision has been made. you lose alot of credibility if you argue this from a personal "my squad deserves a rematch" standpoint.

[genocidal]

Genocides appears to be struggling, what with reasoning ability and all. Don't worry though, I'll clear up your
confusion in no time.

if someone leaves in the middle of the round then the proceeding round can be said to be the round that is still
taking place since it is not yet over. - genocides

Wrong again. The rule states 'the round proceeding the one when the player joined'. I would suggest you try again
but granted your one-sided streak it would probably be a waste of time.

1) I am not Genocides. Apparently the reading comprehension problems are all on your side of this argument and for that reason they invented a quote button. Copy/Pasting and italicizing someone's post rather than using the quote button does not make you cool, different, emo, punk, or interesting. It makes you look stupid - and you already do a good job of that on your own otherwise.
2) You are ignoring what I am saying, Sirius.. I am saying that the letter of the rule is open for interpretation. I agree with you that proceeding round should mean the following week but since the TWL Ops made their decision on it I am simply showing how the wording of the rule can be interpreted differently. The irony here is you are talking about my one-sided streak when I am the one recognozing both sides. The reason I was arguing for the intpretation that you can't seem to wrap your mind around is because it was the decision made by the TWL Ops and, I think, it does make sense at some level.

Haha Lofty getting pissed off. - genocides

I'm just contributing to a proper cause since this thread happens to exist. But, since you appear to be
confused about this subject as well, I'm in a charitable enough mood to show you an example of someone getting
pissed off -

That is the LETTER of the rule you stupid fuck. - genocides

Now that I've cleared that up, shall I proceed with shredding your next point? =P

Penetrating your mind is an exercise in futility. Excuse my rudeness.

obviously no rule has been broken here since the rule makers were asked prior to the action -
genocides

I almost feel embarrassed for you to have to ask you something so elementary, but unfortunately my hunch may be
correct and therefore I must - do you actually believe that the objective legitimacy of a course of action rests
solely on the judgment of authorities? =P

Thats why rules exist, so authorities can enforce them, not call the shots. People do make mistakes and misinterpret
rules or allow for corrupted choices, one of which is present in this case. I suggest you take notes to avoid having
me hand feed you these points in the future =P

Sirius., you are misconstruing my words to fit me into a mold that you can attack. No, I do not think that legitimacy lies in the judgement of authorities. That said, my argument was that since there is rule vagueness, and the TWL Ops (who make and enforce the rules) were asked about this specific rule, that no rule has been broken because the sole enforcers declared it legal. You miss the point where I said there needs to be rule clarification and not just arbitration on the part of TWL Ops regarding this rule. But since this is the first instance and the Ops were asked no rule has been broken as far as the enforcers and makers of the rules are concerned. Obviously a rule has been broken in the Lofty Rule Book of TWL and Things That Just Hurt My Feelings, but unfortunately there are no enforcers of that - barring you and your ability to post on the forums about it.

The rest of your emotional rants are of little relevance and require none of my intervention. I suggest calming down
before proceeding with futile retorts, or better yet, simply stop posting. Choice is yours, don't blame me later if
you make the wrong one =P

Another instance of irony. Because this rule has no bearing on me, my squad, or anyone I really care about, my intervention is fairly emotionless - contrary to your's. However, if perhaps I came across as uncalm it is only because I was being rude as a result of mere frustration with your lack of ability to understand things.

[Lofty]

Genocidal got his feelings hurt and is back for more? What's with calling me different names? Did I hit a nerve that bad? =P

Don't flatter yourself thinking I care enough to notice whether you are genocides or genocidal or whoever.

Copy/Pasting and italicizing someone's post rather than using the quote button does not make you cool, different, emo, punk, or interesting. - genocidal

Stop overestimating my intentions. I'm used to arguing in places where there is no quote button therefore I'm used to the style and don't care to change it. Get over it already and try to find a more legitimate point to attack, even if it is pretty hard =P

and, I think, it does make sense at some level. - genocidal

It doesn't make sense on any level. Hence my point about the weak comprehension =P

the TWL Ops (who make and enforce the rules) were asked about this specific rule, that no rule has been broken because the sole enforcers declared it legal.

How many more times are you going to get it wrong? TWL Op's may be in charge of making rules, but that doesn't mean they can just abracadabra and pull shit out of their ass in the middle of seasons; they construct a rule list like the one we have and then abide by it.

my intervention is fairly emotionless - contrary to your's. - genocidal

If chuckling or laughing at some of your poorly constructed retorts makes my intervention emotional then I guess it is. Aside from that though, you became emotional the minute I began to point at shortcomings you happen to blatantly demonstrate in your posts. But hey, don't blame me for that =P and by all means, continue if you feel the urge =P

anyways, lofty, that is not what the case at hand is. - Randedl

Actually, that's precisely what the case at hand is. Giving TWL staff the benefit of the doubt, they made a final call based on lack of information and/or not knowing the precise meaning of a rule. And to not be able to adjust a decision to reflect that doesn't make sense. And it would be the same situation with my doublesquadding example. I don't see why outcomes should be based on chance of ignorance instead of righteous decision and why people can get away with illegal activity in a case like that.

[2dragons]

For someone so "high up", being a smart ass and belittling the points of everyone who disagrees with you, simply because things went your way (with no nudging at all, I'm sure), doesn't help anything.

I belittle no one; you only interpret the words in that way if you wish. You do nothing but exemplify that misinterpretation is as easy as getting someone to read what has been written. Also do not assume that everyone disagrees with me because I have not agreed on anything, I have only stated the facts which are pertinent to the situation.

Things didn't go my way buddy; I simply showed up and did what I was allowed to do. I'm getting a little bit tired of having my opinions and thoughts created without asking me...

And perhaps you should also be more careful with what you write because I've never interpreted from the situation what you have: any normal player would've been amply "dealt with". What player is to be dealt with? There is no player at fault.

Frankly the thread has grown from discussion of a rule interpretation to unjustified player harassment. Scan the last 5 posts, 3 of them lack tact, now disagree to that (because I have agreed.)

Btw - I'm just kind of bored, but if any of you guys program or have a little knowledge in the area, give Robowar a shot. A very enjoyable game where you program bots to combat in 1v1 and group situations. I'd be glad to help anyone out as I'd like to see others find enjoyment in the game. Or pop me a message if you want more information. =)

http://robowar.sourceforge.net/RoboWar5/

Btw the next international tournament is March 31st (could be subject to change.)

[Nigel Pennypacker]

Wtf

He is not good this, against the guidelines. Which for spoiled personnel!!

[Rogue]

He is not good this, against the guidelines. Which for spoiled personnel!!

lol..what? <_<

[Randedl]

anyways, lofty, that is not what the case at hand is. - Randedl

Actually, that's precisely what the case at hand is. Giving TWL staff the benefit of the doubt, they made a final call based on lack of information and/or not knowing the precise meaning of a rule. And to not be able to adjust a decision to reflect that doesn't make sense. And it would be the same situation with my doublesquadding example. I don't see why outcomes should be based on chance of ignorance instead of righteous decision and why people can get away with illegal activity in a case like that.

3.01 Double-squadding for Players: Any player found to be joined to either two Trench Wars Leagues Squads or a Trench Wars Leagues and a Trench Wars Divisions Squad, will be subject to suspension from Trench Wars Leagues for the remainder of the season. If they played in any games the week of discovery, the Squad that had the double-squadder will forfeit those games.

This rule explains your hypothetical. I don't believe it is vague to the point of interpretation either.

[Mattey]

2dragons is a cheating douchebag.

Edit: and Rodge is dumb.