First squad to get kicked or dissolve?

[Zerzera]

I don't know Myth, when I used CE it was an obvious joke and it was my first ban ever and I got a year for it.
I don't see how you would get less if you got caught using it in TWD. But then again, we are talking TW-staff here :P

[Kid Kaos]

Wow Kid Kaos that was the most ignorant thing I've heard all day. Why are people sticklers over rules? Because that's what makes these sort of events the way they are. If we don't follow the rules one time, why should we follow them the next? It's no good to have double standards. Don't go with the nerd argument either, that's totally weak, there are much better ones, although you might have to use your imagination this time.

I honestly don't care how this goes either way, because I really don't know the rules too well regarding this, as long as the rules are being followed.

It boils down to this in my opinion, you all want to see us be kicked out of twl because mythril was caught cheating in a pointless and non important match. If it was a match where we were fighting to get into twlb or someshit then I could see extreme action being taken. Why goto the extreme and fuck over a buncha good guys who DONT cheat over a stupid pointless match? Thats ridiculous and I am willing to bet that if Nethila HAD dissolved us from twl more people would be hounding on them for being to strict. You can call me ignorant all you like but I stand by what I said.

[Liquid Blue]

It boils down to this in my opinion, you all want to see us be kicked out of twl because mythril was caught cheating in a pointless and non important match. If it was a match where we were fighting to get into twlb or someshit then I could see extreme action being taken. Why goto the extreme and fuck over a buncha good guys who DONT cheat over a stupid pointless match? Thats ridiculous and I am willing to bet that if Nethila HAD dissolved us from twl more people would be hounding on them for being to strict. You can call me ignorant all you like but I stand by what I said.

If he cheated in one game he will cheat in another. If for some reason you guys were close to losing and about to go in an important match, who is to say whether or not he wouldn't do it again? Most people should have the common sense not to cheat, and as captain- knowing that your squad coudl get banned for what you're doing, he should have not cheated. Hell being captain alone means that you have to set an example.

Cheaters need to be set straight, ban him and kick out the squad. It's rough but if you let it slide this time, it's going to be a slippery slope. Don't want your squad to get in trouble? Don't want to fuck up your chances at TWL? Don't cheat period, whether it's a pointless game or a TWL final.

[PaulOakenfold]

you all want to see us be kicked out of twl because mythril was caught cheating in a pointless and non important match

It has nothing to do with how important the match was. A match is a match in regards to cheating. The whole deal with, 'we didn't know' is moot as well. It doesn't matter if you did or didn't (I'm willing to be none of you knew, because GV is a generally trustworthy group of people), but you put your trust and faith into Mythril as a captain and a responsible person who's there to lead or co-lead your squad.

[Foreign]

Hi.

My thoughts, not that they influence anything:

1. Mythril was proven to be cheating in a TWDD. This is an established fact. I don't think anyone argues it, not even Mythril himself. This is very mature of him, first of all, I think.

2. It was a TWD game, as stated above, and while the TWL Rules do not specify in section 3 article 4 whether or not the captain had to be cheating in a TWL match, it could be assumed that the nature of the text implies that the cheating must occur during a TWL match. That said, I think staff should be consistent in their punishments. If Grapevine is not to be banned from TWL, neither should Mythril be. Ban him from TWD, fine, but allow him to play TWL when his TW ban runs out. TWL != TWD. I say this partly because I've been around Mythril since he started playing and he's not the kind of guy that uses exploits to win. The obvious reason he was using CE was curiosity. Hell, I'm curious, I just have shown more restraint. I also say this because everyone forgets about any good you've done as soon as you mess up. It takes a lot of time to build up a good reputation, but only one wrong action to totally screw it up. I say based on reputation Mythril's punishment should be lenient. I will not label him a "cheater" just because of one misstep in his judgment. It could happen to any of us.

3. I think the rules should be changed to specify that if the squad OWNER is caught cheating then the squad will be in danger of being disqualified. This is because in the majority of cases there is one captain that is the head honcho so to speak and the other 1-2 are people he depends on most. It's a double-blow for a captain to have his trust betrayed by a close squadmate and then staff to say "btw you're out of TWL because you're most trusted squadmate gave you the dick in the ass".

4. I think TW handles cheating with necessary seriousness and judgment. I also think that it is okay for there to be discrepencies in punishments for individuals. It is obvious that staff has the ability to hand out punishment on a case-by-case basis for the most part. Everyone who commits murder doesn't get the same sentence, and cheating on online shooterships is much less severe of an action, so there should be no arguments here. Life isn't as consistent as we'd like it to be, so we can't expect consequences to be completely linear either.

5. Ultimately I do not think Grapevine should be banned from TWL. For the first reason, look at #3. Also, there was nothing any member on the squad could have done to prevent this from happening. Third, the only thing that would result from that is one of the better squads around this season being absorbed into the remaining skilled squads, which is ultimately a waste of a TWL spot that will be filled by a participant that will be a waste of time to play against. Selfish of me? Yes.

That is all.

[PaulOakenfold]

I think the rules should be changed to specify that if the squad OWNER is caught cheating then the squad will be in danger of being disqualified.

This is WAAAY to vague of a rule. Who's to say who the owner is except for the squad itself? Loophole #1. And what does 'in danger of being disqualified' actually mean? That the staff gets to make a biased decision on someone's proven actions? Loophole #2.

[Foreign]

This is WAAAY to vague of a rule. Who's to say who the owner is except for the squad itself? Loophole #1. And what does 'in danger of being disqualified' actually mean? That the staff gets to make a biased decision on someone's proven actions? Loophole #2.

#1 - A particular individual has to be verified as a squad's owner before it can enter TWD, I believe.

#2 - Read the rules first. Substitute captain with owner. Reread the rules.

[Foreign]

Here is the rule, straight from twleagues.org. The rule is quite vague in the fact that it does not specify whether the cheating had to be during an official TWL match. Also, as you said about a biased decision, that is straight from the rules, so yes.

3.04 Any Squad Captain or Co-Captain found to be guilty of cheating to alter game play and to create an unfair advantage, will be subject to:
a) Permanent suspension from Trench Wars Leagues participation.
b) Forfeit of all Squad matches played in the week the offense was discovered for the Squad(s) of which the player was a captain or co-captain of regardless of participation in those particular games.
c) Removal of the Squad(s) from Trench Wars League participation for the Squad(s) of which the offending player was a captain or co-captain of. The other members and co-captain(s) of the Squad may appeal this decision and it will be decided by the League Operators, at which point a new captain may be approved.
d) Referral to League Operators and Trench Wars Moderators for immediate punishment including being banned from Trench Wars.

[PaulOakenfold]

Right, but the biased decision is made AFTER the fact that they banned them in the first place, and the squad decides to appeal. I'm not too interested in the whole appeal process I suppose, I'm curious as to why nothing has been done thus far.... probably because the rules are so vague. There's always room for interpretation, but sometimes the line has to be drawn.

Also, I believe that many captains have the same responsibility as the person that origianlly made the squad. I haven't been on too many squads where one captain has more control than the others... the owner could simply be the person decided between three captains to put the squad up on the TWD site.

[Foreign]

Paulo I agree that something more concrete needs to be put in place. I'd say if the owner is caught cheating, the squad should be forced to leave the leagues, since a squad without an owner is not a squad at all. Also, if someone (anyone) on the squad is caught cheating and the owner can be proven to have had knowledge of it, I think the same consequences should be enforced.

[tahkis]

Ban him from TWD, fine, but allow him to play TWL when his TW ban runs out.

At least few cheaters who bragged about it in forums got 1 year netban. I don't really see why Mythril would get 3 month ban... And then there's roster lock in week 4 and who would want to keep cheater in their roster?

[Mythril]

Just to clear things up, I cheated in a twbd game :P I never cheated in a twdd or twjd game, don't know how to.

And I've been netbanned and removed from Grapevine. I don't think you have to worry about them cheating during TWL just because I made a dumb mistake. If you consider Grapevine cheaters and want them kicked out of TWL then you're probably a retard and are just afraid of being beat by them. Staff already made their decision, so how about you stop trying to get grapevine banned from twl?

Nothing has been done to grapevine because they did nothing wrong. Nobody is going to label grapevine as cheaters because of this. I'm not on grapevine anymore, you have nothing to worry about. It was an individual crime, the match was meaningless and who gives a fuck about a bd against passion?

[Scoop]

Does anyone else find this entire situation completely ridiculous. By taking a soft line against cheaters your just opening the floodgates, stop being liberalist douchebags and fucking do something that MIGHT SOLVE SOME PROBLEMS. If you think nobody else on the squad knew that Mythril was cheating than you obviously shouldn't be solving mysteries for staff. The thing that makes this even worse than normal is the fact that it basically proves the old argument that older players/squads are free from getting in trouble because of their experience on the zone. If this had been say... Speed, or Quicksand I honestly doubt that we would be continued to keep playing in the TWL season. The offense for a CAPTAIN of a squad getting BANNED FOR CHEATING is the squad gets DISSOLVED, Period. Now then, if the squad is Dissolved in TWD, then they are unable to compete in TWL, so which backass way did you not follow the rules to allow this? Zerzera the cheater is the right, why do you think so many people allow squads with cheaters, because you only lesson we learn is we can get away with it when you don't do jack shit about anything. Oh, and im fairly certain Mythril will be back in the zone in a few days after he explains to you that he wasn't hacking at all, what really happened was (insane bullshit excuse here). So, way to fuck up, once again.

- Wark

PS: I don't have anything against Grapevine, atleast you deserve to be in TWL, but honestly if your captain fucked up, he did, and you should be dissolved.

fu :fear:

[Scoop]

Just to clear things up, I cheated in a twbd game :P I never cheated in a twdd or twjd game, don't know how to.

And I've been netbanned and removed from Grapevine. I don't think you have to worry about them cheating during TWL just because I made a dumb mistake. If you consider Grapevine cheaters and want them kicked out of TWL then you're probably a retard and are just afraid of being beat by them. Staff already made their decision, so how about you stop trying to get grapevine banned from twl?

Nothing has been done to grapevine because they did nothing wrong. Nobody is going to label grapevine as cheaters because of this. I'm not on grapevine anymore, you have nothing to worry about. It was an individual crime, the match was meaningless and who gives a fuck about a bd against passion?

Myt i really wish you never would have done this... gonna try to win it for you anyways best of luck

[Accord]

Myt Cheated On Purpose To Get Gv Outta Leagues Omfg!! Now He Gonna Evade And Join Wp Someone Do Something!!!!