Separating the Dueling and Basing leagues

[Windreaper]

You don't understand, Dwopple. The point is to spread out the talent. This could be cool.

Perhaps, but you'd also lose stability as players would be forced into smaller units. I'm imagining a dystopy where players just come and go without any real attachments as no squad ever sticks around longer than one season (without a radical lineup change, that is .

Call me jaded, but I like seeing the same old fogeys under familiar squad banners season after season. There's nothing to prevent the new guys from getting good/laggy/something positive and they've done so (despite possessing rather potty mouths, QS had a very good season even though they lost their anal virginity in many senses).

[Dwopple]

You don't understand, Dwopple. The point is to spread out the talent. This could be cool.

what jeen? you dont think that there would be 1 squad with the top duelers, leaving the other squads with the 2nd/3rd stringers??

[concealed]

its sepArate LOL

[Sufficient]

ok i admit i skimmed through this speech, but....wouldnt this idea ruin the fun of 3 leaguers??? and winning a triple crown? it would tear a line between the population


iono, again i just skimmed through the idea

Just to address the Triple Crown thing. There is no problem with the suggested setup in terms of Triple Crown. It'll still exist. TWL will still be labeled as TWL10 for wb, jav, and basing. The timing will just be a little bit extended with things not happening simulataneously. So yes, teams can still vie for the Triple Crown.

Kim, are you suggesting this with some backup from staff (I assume you're still staff)? Or is just your suggestion (with no backing up from staff).

[Sufficient]

My suggestion for TWLB and TWLDueling would be 3x each lineup size.

So Dueling = 15 ... if you're putting wb and jav rosters together ... maybe the max roster size should be 20.
Basing = 32

Btw, your suggestion on having squads reregister every TWD/TWL sounds great. It'll weed out the squads on the TWD website full of empty rosters as well as keep squads kinda active (forcing them to take care of the administrative stuff of reregistering).

[Kim]

Sufficient: There's probably only 1 person in this zone who can push forward ideas without having to discuss it with the rest of staff, and that is DoCk>. Even Pure_Luck sends his ideas through the rounds among staff to get some majority approval on the matter before applying it. Yes I am still staff, do you even play nowadays?

For me displaying my ideas here, I was hoping people would add to it like they have shown here, so that when I do present the idea, it is more refined, plus with the input of all kinds of people on here, it would make the idea that much more accepted with few casualties along the way as possible.

Dwopple: I will use your squad as an example. Your jav line consists of: Amputate, demonfaze, fireballz, Kazi, merce, and Rough. Any interchange of 5 among these 6 will be your top line. Now, lets say that this squad of 15 has other players such as Ease and PjOtTeR. The problem resolves itself, because such a squad would NEVER work. Players would be fighting for playing time, and people would leave. The equilibrium would work if there were a balance of players, not just starters.

[Windreaper]

Very much true, the "top talent" will want to play twl and will join other squads/make new ones if they can't play in their current squad. There's no problem, if you ask me. I'm still trying to figure out what you're trying to achieve by limiting roster size, care to elaborate?

[Sufficient]

Very much true, the "top talent" will want to play twl and will join other squads/make new ones if they can't play in their current squad. There's no problem, if you ask me. I'm still trying to figure out what you're trying to achieve by limiting roster size, care to elaborate?

Weed out the inactive players. Prevent teams from hoarding players.

[Sufficient]

Sufficient: There's probably only 1 person in this zone who can push forward ideas without having to discuss it with the rest of staff, and that is DoCk>. Even Pure_Luck sends his ideas through the rounds among staff to get some majority approval on the matter before applying it. Yes I am still staff, do you even play nowadays?

I can't tell if you're slightly annoyed/offended about my comment.

All I wanted to know was if this was coming from you with some type of backing of staff already bc these suggestions were kinda discussed in previous threads. Yes, you've elaborated on them with your own comments/suggestions. I recieved little feedback when I suggested the separation of the leagues (although it was in the middle of the TWL season).

And as for the last question, yes I do play ... on and off, and under alias since I don't like ppl approaching me randomly. I kinda would like to get involved in the organization and setup of league. I'm not interested in actually playing in TWL.

[Kim]

With this system, hoarding isn't a huge issue because it will naturally work itself out. The reason behind it is because players are joining squads just because they somehow feel "important" to be rostered along side TWL starters when they themselves have no part of it. With this roster system, you know that every player on their is vital, and that is something special in my opinion. 2nd stringers for a squad like Syndicate may rise through the ranks and become starters for another squad, and will eventually be pitted against their former teammates on former Syndicate. This is what I aim at with this new system. Not to mention the fact that by decreasing roster size, you get new starting lineups arising amongst the lesser known, but end up being a force to be reckoned with. New leaders will rise up.

[Jeenyuss]

what jeen? you dont think that there would be 1 squad with the top duelers, leaving the other squads with the 2nd/3rd stringers??

It's not like there's only 15 good duelers in Trench Wars. And wouldn't they top 6-15 rather prove their worth then bench for the top 5? I mean, there's always going to be better squads than the others but this spreads the talent out moreso than right now.

[Kim]

By the way, to those concerned somehow about having your squad stay on the TWD website as some kind of way to determine how "loyal" you can be, well, after this TWL season we are undergoing a TWD reform which will have all players re-register their names AND squads. Plus, we will remove any restrictions such as joining another squad under 24 hours, squad creation restrictions, during the transition time from one league to another. All it takes is an active captain, and 5 minutes of their time. I don't think I am demanding too much by having squads re-registering themselves. Players have always been complaining about how TWD is littered with a ton of 1 player squads, these will diminish significantly.

[Windreaper]

Weed out the inactive players. Prevent teams from hoarding players.

Yes, but where's the problem? And what damage does hoarding players cause? Anyone good enough and truly wanting to play will join a squad where it is possible unless he/she is too attached to his/her current squad to leave. In this case he/she wouldn't be available anyway. I suppose a small TWL roster is fine, but don't limit the TWD roster size. At least we have some semi-inactive guys (like Jack) who pop in to play a dd/jd once in a while so why take away that chance? Do you seriously think those players would suddenly migrate if you took them off the TWD roster. I don't think so, but I'm sure they'd be pissed to some extent. You also need to keep the casual/infrequent player in mind when designing these rules.

But yes, I can definitely see the merit of having separate rosters for dueling and base. I would definitely use the chance to get some 'bird action in a squad other than -F- (where I'm something like 3rd string or Disq just hates me, lol while remaining in -F- during basing and off-season. With the current system it isn't really possible. Did I understand the system correctly?

[Sufficient]

You suggested lowering the # for wb or jav leagues to 15 but keeping basing at 35?

Do something that like limiting it to 32 players (4x8=32). If you're going by 3x or 4x the limit (wb and jav you suggested was 3x-4x).

And this was the thread I was referring to: http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=25300

[Sufficient]

Yes, but where's the problem? And what damage does hoarding players cause? Anyone good enough and truly wanting to play will join a squad where it is possible unless he/she is too attached to his/her current squad to leave. In this case he/she wouldn't be available anyway. I suppose a small TWL roster is fine, but don't limit the TWD roster size. At least we have some semi-inactive guys (like Jack) who pop in to play a dd/jd once in a while so why take away that chance? Do you seriously think those players would suddenly migrate if you took them off the TWD roster. I don't think so, but I'm sure they'd be pissed to some extent. You also need to keep the casual/infrequent player in mind when designing these rules.

1) Hoarding players lowers the level of competition in TWL.
2) I really don't think you have to be rostered to provide "moral support" or "spec help". Only players who intend on playing should be rostered. Really ... 15 or 20 members ... that's 3x-4x what is needed ... ridiculous.

All of the above is for TWL. I really don't care about limiting or not limiting roster size for TWD.