Separating the Dueling and Basing leagues

[Sufficient]

I guess I'll explain upon why I believe TWL should be specifically 12 squads per league and 1 conference for each league.

I'm assuming that we're breaking down TWL into TWLD/TWLJ and TWLB.

It'd be nice if leagues get down around/within 3 months. I just don't think it's doable. So let's assume we wanna get leagues done within 4 months. That gives us 16 weeks essentially to fit in regular season and playoffs.

Take a look at the math:
- 12 teams per league
- 2 week preseason
- 11 weeks of reg season (each team plays each other once)
- 3 weeks playoffs (top 8 teams make playoffs)
- that adds up to a total of 16 weeks

note: this doesn't take into account holidays and also we won't have any type of ''make-up or postponement week".

[Doc Flabby]

I dont like the idea of dissolveing squads each year.

I like this idea, playing dd and jd first part of the year then bd second half.

I would like to see 1 levi allowed in bd, with the shark limit increased to 3 and terrier limit increased to 2. I think it would create some interesting tactics.

[Izor]

TWL has a lot more Euros than other leagues (other zone leagues). I think we should just keep the normal schedule to Sundays and assuming we separate either all leagues of just dueling and basing, there should be enough slots open to play ONLY on Sundays.

How does having the option, should both squads agree, to play on Saturday or Monday hurt anyone? If the squads cant agree then they play Sunday between 14:00 and 16:00.

[Jeenyuss]

i can't stand basing, its a horrible league, i can't come to terms with it so honestly, i dont wanna have to take up a league i dont fuckin like just so im not bored the remainder of the year. Seperating leagues = stupid idea

You'd be waiting anyway for the next TWL to start.

[genocidal]

How does having the option, should both squads agree, to play on Saturday or Monday hurt anyone? If the squads cant agree then they play Sunday between 14:00 and 16:00.

Well you probably haven't heard of this but a lot of people either attend school or have a job that they must be at on Mondays and this includes staff. That would just create more hosting problems (which we've already seen a lot of this season). It's better to tell staff that they'll all have to show up one day and maybe a couple on Saturday.

[Ephemeral]

Thank you Kim for your efforts and for your perseverance. I am in awe at your ability to stay on topic and keep pushing for good ideas like these. Sometimes I think that if assholes could fly, TW would be an airport. Yet you manage to keep your chin up and continue to contribute. Thanks again.

[Dwopple]

its obvious why you dont like the idea, your the the classic "bencher" that does nothing during the season but gets credit for being on the squad. This idea would force you to contribute and oh hell no would you want to do something like that.

lol exalt? not contributed? im a baser you twat, of course i've contributed to syndicate being in semi-finals

[Izor]

Well you probably haven't heard of this but a lot of people either attend school or have a job that they must be at on Mondays and this includes staff. That would just create more hosting problems (which we've already seen a lot of this season). It's better to tell staff that they'll all have to show up one day and maybe a couple on Saturday.

are you telling me no staff are on on monday or saturday? It's not hard to deal with. There would at most be 3 games a weekend that arent on sunday (during LJ/LD) because of the reasons you mentioned, but you should be able to have a staffer available then

[Reaver]

I reread your posts Reav, and I didn't really see you make any alternative suggestions.

Finding refs is something that needs to be taken care of. I think every participating TWL squads should contribute refs (IF TWL ops cannot get enough from their own staff).

...


The big question here is:
Will we have less dropouts if we reduce the squads per league?

I can't really be any more clear with my suggestions, but I'll put them up again to clarify. Decrease the roster size to 30 for TWL if a squad competes in all 3 leagues. If a squad competes in LJ and LD only then allow for a roster size of 25 or 20, if a squad only competes in either LJ or LD then only allow a roster size of 20 or 15. The smaller roster limits will stop squads from hoarding loads of skilled players and force new squads to be formed or current squads to recruit players that would have mostly ridden the bench for their previous squad. Im just pulling numbers off the top of my head, exact numbers for roster limits are up for debate.
On top of this decrease the number of squads allowed into each league to 10 or 12. If you have less squads allowed into the league then higher caliber squads will be playing. Competition will be greater to actually get into the league and obviously dropouts will be less along with the squads that replace the dropouts will be better. Im not saying Kim's suggestion wouldn't work, Im just offering a less drastic alternative.

[concealed]

again the problem with what reaver suggests is that this just diminishes the amount of players who will get to play in TWL, with squads like TeKs and Passion who are considered "nice squads" and obviously have some perseverence to stick it out even tho they really sucked comparatively. If we go down to 10 teams this will mean that some of the teams where new players would get a chance to paly wont exist. im hoping that in this way there will be a future for these players in a year or two when they have some experience.

[RATTY...]

Pick up basing, maybe? Many duelers have done that and lived, some even got very good at it and claimed it was actually rather enjoyable at times .

It's a common fact that duelers who convert to basing are horrible people who failed as a WB, like knockers on disoblige and the kings kid. After several years they realised that they were below the average in WB, and they finally converted to basing.

Duelers rarely convert to basing unless they suck. They rather go 2 or 3 league, not pure basing.

The same way I feel about LD and LJ. I just don't enjoy those leagues at all, and have never really tried to get better at them, nor do I want to. I don't think seperating the leagues will make more people TRY other leagues, but it will give them a chance to join different squads for TWLB/LJ/LD if they want.

Dueling is harder than basing, you rarely/never see a baser go over to dueling and actually become good.

What I feel makes the most sense, is having an option to schedule on saturday, sunday, and monday.

Monday? Not everyone sits at home playing all the like you do. I canceled lots of appointments in the weekends to make TWL this year, and I couldnt make 5 of the games. People do have work and school, they dont sit at home 24/7 like a loser like you.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but this would off-set that "squad-hopping" problem...where people would play for one squad for one twjd/twdd/twbd, then join another random squad

I agree. Gonna be lots of hoppers.

Kim is talking about how it will be easier for people new to basing to start basing cause of this. Am I the only one who sees that the basing part hasn't changed at all?

How is a guy new to basing supposed to start for a basing squad when the roster limit is at 35. 8 ppl playing one match, 8+8+8+8, he's either on the 4th line, or even the 5th line.

It's a good idea, but its gonna be hard to keep people interested in leagues.

[Sufficient]

How does having the option, should both squads agree, to play on Saturday or Monday hurt anyone? If the squads cant agree then they play Sunday between 14:00 and 16:00.

Sure, you can open you the time slots 24 hours a day 7 days a week. The thing is that the real life application of doing something like that is little. In fact I don't think it'll happen at all if it was offerred. I just believe it's easier for TWL to have strict set time slots for TWL where it only happens for ex on Sundays from 1-5 PM EST.

For ex. I don't want this to happen ... QS can't make a Sunday match against some Euro squad. So they argue that for Wed night game. Euro wants the Sunday slot. Who is the TWL op going to favor?

[Sufficient]

I can't really be any more clear with my suggestions, but I'll put them up again to clarify. Decrease the roster size to 30 for TWL if a squad competes in all 3 leagues. If a squad competes in LJ and LD only then allow for a roster size of 25 or 20, if a squad only competes in either LJ or LD then only allow a roster size of 20 or 15. The smaller roster limits will stop squads from hoarding loads of skilled players and force new squads to be formed or current squads to recruit players that would have mostly ridden the bench for their previous squad. Im just pulling numbers off the top of my head, exact numbers for roster limits are up for debate.
On top of this decrease the number of squads allowed into each league to 10 or 12. If you have less squads allowed into the league then higher caliber squads will be playing. Competition will be greater to actually get into the league and obviously dropouts will be less along with the squads that replace the dropouts will be better. Im not saying Kim's suggestion wouldn't work, Im just offering a less drastic alternative.

I don't think that helps the scheduling and lag problem enough. Separating the leagues frees up significantly more time slots and (will help reduce lag significantly more). I would hardly call the idea of separating leagues drastic. Again I point out the fact that we're not changing the fundamental gameplay (map and settings). Finally, no one (or very few ppl) want only 10 squad per league. The only real choices are 12, 14, or 16.

[Kim]

Monday scheduling doesn't work because of what gen has brought up, and it is completely valid. People go to work and go to school on Monday. There's a reason why people hate mondays, and it sure as hell isn't because they get to stay at home to do whatever they want such as playing continuum. By separating the leagues you have already cleared up many scheduling problems while maintaining the number of games required to be played per week.

Izor, you need staffers available to host the games. In an ideal situation, squads can meet up anytime they like during the week, schedule a match, and play it out themselves without any hosts to watch. But, with lag cheating and lag influences onto a match, there has to be a 3rd person overwatching the situation, and it sure as hell better be a competent one at that.

[Sufficient]

Here's the math behind separate leagues and scheduling.

Current setup:
- 16 squads per league
- 8 games played per week per league
- 3 leagues played simultaneously = total of 24 games per week
- assume all TWL games are played on Sun
- time slots are 1-5 PM (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5, 5-6) = total of 5 time slots
- only 2 games for a particular league can go on in the same time slot
- 10 time slots available for each league for 8 games of a particular league to be played = total comes out to be 24 games needed to be played with 30 total time slots
- potential for lag from 6 games (2 from each league) being played simultaneously

Suggested setup:
- TWLD/TWLJ and TWLB separate (below I'm only referring to TWLD/TWLJ)
- 12 squads per league
- 6 games played per week per league
- TWLD/TWLJ happening simutaneously = total of 12 games per week
- assume all TWL games are played on Sun
- time slots are 1-5 PM (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5, 5-6) = total of 5 time slots
- only 2 games for a particular league can go on in the same time slot
- 10 time slots available for each league for 6 games of a particular league to be played = total comes out to be 12 games needed to be played with 20 total time slots
- potential for lag from 4 games (2 from each league) being played simultaneously

Comparison:
- total games per week = 24 -> 12
- potential for lag from games being played in same time slot = 6 -> 4 [***note Reaver your suggestion doesn't give TWL this benefit since all 3 leagues are played simultaneously]
- time slots = 10:8 -> 10:6 (free time slots per league : games needed to be played per league)

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TWLB would be played by itself so scheduling and lag benefits would be even greater I would think.