Base map and cramming

[Kolar]

We could test it on ?go Base for a while and see if it works but changing the league half way through probably isn't going to happen. Flag room battles are more fun and doing this might make lining a more viable option to cramming.

[a2m+]

Put it up in twbd arenas for a week or two after twl ends and put a bot there so all games played count toward twbd standings, the only way to know if people like it or not is to put it into competitive play

[Noah]

Staff, look here!

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=32123

I'm trying a new tactic here, this thread needs some attention from staff. Atleast tell us to stop trying, and to fuck off.

Thank you in advance.

Merged since your thread wasn't even a thread, it was just a link to this one. -Aquatiq

[Noah]

That's a good idea, Kuuk. It's pretty obvious that it's a good to anyone, sadly, it will never be implemented in the game. I wish it would be though.

[Kuukunen]

I would honestly not mind seeing this being tested in base2. If there really is interest in the new map, it'll be played more often than base would, and if not, we could dump the idea after a few weeks of no activity. But yeah, the staff SHOULD respond to this thread.

Well if they just put it in base2 and forget it there, of course it's not going to get hosted. I mean they did put a similar map in base2, but the problem was not too many hosts started it. And people were hanging out in ?go base anyways because most of the people (and hosts) didn't even know base2 existed. Of course everyone will just ?go base, since that's what they always did. If you want some real results, fairer way would be just to replace the ?go base map at least for a while and then after a while link to poll that links here in welcome messge or something. Or alternatively do something to give it a chance, like removing ?go base and making arenas basenew and baseold. As I said before, the cram problem isn't as bad in ?go base so if it doesnt' get a real chance many people might have this "Wtf is this crap? It's different! Remove this shit!" which is the natural human reaction to any change.

[Noah]

I'm going to stay out of your discussion with Korven, and atm with the short note that I agree with them. My memory of how basing has changed since I started to play is failing me bigtime.

The problem with staff is that everything has to be filtered to a select few persons, which ends up becoming a severe limitation on its own. Even when I were on alot and hosted gamed, it could still go quite some time before the right person to make such a decision to get on. When they finally got on, they were so filled up with stuff to take care of that they couldn't handle much new stuff. Undergoing a major change in a league would require alot of coordination and work from those few uppers, and they might not have the same commitment to the game anymore, but they would rather ban the entire zone than to give up power.

[Tsumetai]

Yea, well, there was the Trench Wars Proposal System for this reason. I don't really know why it was removed since I haven't been active in the forums, but I think it was made because staff got bored of going through massive amounts of half-assed suggestions scattered around, most of which wouldn't work at all, except maybe the few well-thought-out ones hidden deep. I'd also guess the lower staff is too careful to make any moves on their own. (?) Although, overall, I have to say from my point of view it seems the whole TW staff is afraid of even testing changes. Of course it's understandable, in a way, just not to this extent. Not trying to offend anyone here, just some constructive critique. :x

I would honestly not mind seeing this being tested in base2. If there really is interest in the new map, it'll be played more often than base would, and if not, we could dump the idea after a few weeks of no activity. But yeah, the staff SHOULD respond to this thread.

[Kuukunen]

and I haven't played pub ? Plade is also 1-4.

I didn't say you haven't played pub. I only told you about the basis on why I say levs in basing is a bad thing. And the only reason I mentioned Plade was that you insinuated they lose every game. Well, they beat the top of the conference. Ok, to be honest you only said they'd lose every game in your suggested system.

You want to change the basing but only in the boundaries of your own desires and needs. That makes you just the same as all those other people who want the same thing, except the difference is that their desire is cram, so they fight for no changes.

FREE BASING

Is this a trick question or trolling? If you think about it for a second, the fun always comes from limits, rules and boundaries. Want to remove limits? Fine. Let any squad add as many people as they want. Sure, squads who are able to recruit fewer people might have a disadvantage, but in the current system squads with who can recruit better people have an advantage. Or how about not limiting shooting and give everyone super. Pure pub is a hell of a lot more fun than non-pure. Why? Because it has some specific limits. I'm trying to suggest limits that would be a) more fun b) less biased.

Kuuk, it WAS a point race. Whoever got the most points at the end of the time period won the game. Thats why squads would hide lower at the end of the game if they were winning and lost flag... Maybe your not as old as I thought you were.

Wrong. There is a mode in Matchbot called "Point Race". It's a race to specific amount of points. Last game I played it was 70k points. I haven't really seen any widely accepted name used for the old system. Mostly just "20 minute game" or something. Sure, some people nowadays call it point race, because that's the only name they know in addition to time race, and they mix it up with the real point race because most people have never played it, but it's still incorrect. Ok, I admit whining about this is being a smart ass, but I thought I'd mention.

Also, read what Crv said. It would still be a basing league as the point of the game would still be to DEFEND THE FLAG IN THE BASE. If the lev or x isnt allowed in any leagues or pubs then just scrap the ship altogether from the zone.

Ok, sure, it would be "basing", but not in the sense people understand the word when used to describe a game in TW, since it would be very different to current basing. First of all, the zone is not all about the league. I see no problem in keeping x and lev as pub ships. (In non-pure pub.) On the other hand I DO think it would be a good idea to change the ships to be actually usable in basing. But using them as they currently are? Most likely not a good idea.

And again, this thread has very little to do with lev or x limits. The idea was to talk about making defense fairer while keeping other parts of the game intact as much as possible.

Put this into a basing context. Regardless of which side of the cram you are on, defending or attacking, when the cram breaks (or appears to be breaking) don't you wake up a little more? That's the exciting moment we've all be waiting for in any game. A flagroom battle is a crazy hectic, very fun time in a basing game. The stakes are high. Partly because you have the opportunity to set up your own cram and get some good flag time. Winning that battle really means somethings. A reason why we can't take away the cram completely.

Too lazy to "fix" this, but that's basically the exact same thing eelam said. Yea I know this wasn't the point of your post, but I thought I'd clarify it a bit... again. Taking away cram completely doesn't mean there wouldn't be any kind of defense. Cram is just one of the possible tactics. Sure, cram makes the stakes high, but the problem is that it makes them too high. Again, imagine the previously mentioned situation. First winner of fr battle wins the whole game. The stakes are very high. Then imagine situation of constant fr battle. There would be no stakes in terr deaths. That would be boring and lame too. The best setting is somewhere in between, and currently we're way too much in the high stakes end.

Besides, from what I saw in the short base2 tests, where the nubs were removed, people still crammed. And it worked pretty well.

If anything, this topic is drawing me further away from playing this game again. This thread is littered with initiative and arguments from those who plays the game, but there isnt' a single comment that this will be atleast under consideration. Right now this game just seems more stale and boring than it ever has.

There's been so many topics filled with initiative, that has only ended up with a discussion between players, and not anything as a offiicial response.

Yea, well, there was the Trench Wars Proposal System for this reason. I don't really know why it was removed since I haven't been active in the forums, but I think it was made because staff got bored of going through massive amounts of half-assed suggestions scattered around, most of which wouldn't work at all, except maybe the few well-thought-out ones hidden deep. I'd also guess the lower staff is too careful to make any moves on their own. (?) Although, overall, I have to say from my point of view it seems the whole TW staff is afraid of even testing changes. Of course it's understandable, in a way, just not to this extent. Not trying to offend anyone here, just some constructive critique. :x

[Noah]

If anything, this topic is drawing me further away from playing this game again. This thread is littered with initiative and arguments from those who plays the game, but there isnt' a single comment that this will be atleast under consideration. Right now this game just seems more stale and boring than it ever has.

There's been so many topics filled with initiative, that has only ended up with a discussion between players, and not anything as a offiicial response.

[Sufficient]

^^

Still makes it boring as hell.

[MetalHeadz]

...if your good you would know how to break cram.

^^

[Vykromond]

Cram basing is boring. It's extremely tedious to watch and not much better to play. The flagroom is where nearly all the "fun" of basing occurs, so open the fucking flagroom. The base game has atrophied as a direct result of the rise of cram basing.

Can we wrap this up and just change the map already? I don't care how. People think shiplimit(lev)=0 sucks too? Fine, let's change it. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work, but who cares? Try something & fail, it's still more interesting than the same shit over and over again. You can correct mistakes with trial and error but you can't correct 'em if you don't do anything.

[Spider]

Meh, just my opinion, cramming is boring. The only time any game is fun is when the outcome is in doubt. This is like professional sports. How many of us have quit watching a hockey/basket ball/football game if the score is extremely one sided half way through? Unless it's your favorite team, you just get bored with it.

Put this into a basing context. Regardless of which side of the cram you are on, defending or attacking, when the cram breaks (or appears to be breaking) don't you wake up a little more? That's the exciting moment we've all be waiting for in any game. A flagroom battle is a crazy hectic, very fun time in a basing game. The stakes are high. Partly because you have the opportunity to set up your own cram and get some good flag time. Winning that battle really means somethings. A reason why we can't take away the cram completely.

The cram is, sometimes, very exciting. Like I said, only when the outcome is in doubt though. And all too often you see one squad with a vice grip on the base via an overly effective cram. The problem is, it's just too easy to hold a cram, and too hard to break it, all other things being equal. So I would totally support testing any change that will increase the likelyhood of a cram failing either by making sharks slightly less effective (you need sharks to break a cram too, though?) or redesigning the entrance so a terr can be more easily repped out (and the terr might die taking risks to stay in there).

I still think the cram is a little more fun than lining ever was. It feels like more of a challenge. Which is why we need a solution that doesn't make craming a less attractive way of holding base than lining. I think altering the entrance so a terr can be repped is briliant and innovative and should be testing imediately. That's just me though.

[a2m+]

Kuuk, it WAS a point race. Whoever got the most points at the end of the time period won the game. Thats why squads would hide lower at the end of the game if they were winning and lost flag... Maybe your not as old as I thought you were.
Also, read what Crv said. It would still be a basing league as the point of the game would still be to DEFEND THE FLAG IN THE BASE. If the lev or x isnt allowed in any leagues or pubs then just scrap the ship altogether from the zone.

[CrvenBan]

and I haven't played pub ? Plade is also 1-4.


You want to change the basing but only in the boundaries of your own desires and needs. That makes you just the same as all those other people who want the same thing, except the difference is that their desire is cram, so they fight for no changes.


FREE BASING