Base map and cramming

[Kuukunen]

It bothers me so because I've spent lots of time in pub. Besides, Plade did beat Dice.

[CrvenBan]

Why does it bother you so that levs and x's would be used ? It doesn't change the fact that you have to hold flag to win, so what is it to you if the other teams wants to green their lev ? No one says that teams now, have to attack all the time, but someone like ie Plade, might want to have more fun knowing they would lose a game beforehand. Or maybe a good squad wants to try a lev-cram


1. let us use ALL ships, since they don't want to implement a limit on number of spids, then why limit number of ship-choices
2. open it up, just a bit, so newbies still can cram

[Kuukunen]

It wasn't point race. And no, they wouldn't have called you crazy. Basing is still mostly the same game as before, but with levs it wouldn't be. If you really want levs in basing, it doesn't have anything to do with TWLB anymore. You could try pushing for a new leageue and you could call it Trench Wars Non-Pure Pub League, since it would be mostly that: levs, greening and protecting levs, levterrs, spawning, not basing. Alternatively you could call it Trench Wars Sucky Leagues, because holy shit it would suck. No wait, that acronym is already used.

Well that's besides the point. The point of the whole thread is to discuss something that changes as little as possible, otherwise people will chicken out. I'm trying to get an idea of how many people want a change and what kind of change would have the most support. Maybe put a poll up later and use this thread as a reference. I'm trying to find a change that would have as many people as possibe supporting the it so there would actually be a very slight chance of staff even considering thinking about testing it.

[Eeks]

I proposed new bombing holes years back but everyone stomped my idea...

Add a few holes for javs and enforce a spiderlimit and maybe playing terrier will be fun again heck might even start learning it myself too and get back in tw

[CrvenBan]

craaazy

[a2m+]

If the other team sends a spider/wb down to hunt the lev then the one team could possibly use their whole entire team to guard the lev and get it into lower to blast the shit out of fr... then the only way to kill the lev would be to use a jav to get it from top or another levi to do the same... imagine all the new scenerios that would arise just from allowing ALL ships to be used...

Sure it dosent sound like basing now a days but if you told people during season 4/5 that basing would become a game dependent on using as many spiders as you could, camping at the entrance in a TIME RACE rather than a point race... and that sharks will go from getting the most kills to getting the absolute least... they'd call you crazy

[CrvenBan]

And if everyone thinks that levs and xs are bad, then they won't be playing them, right ? So why not give a chance to those ppl who think levs and xs ARE good enough to be played. Just like with lanc today, it's usable, but no one plays it. What's the big deal with lev then ?


Lou :wub:
a2m :wub:

[Apocalypse WOW!]

Here´s an idea:

Why not create another twd division of rotating base maps and hold mini-tournaments for them - like, top 8 squads in ladder get to compete in a minitournaments. I think just having a venue where a different map can be challenged and competed over would help increase the popularity - or alternating the map in go base with another map on weekends or something.

As for questions of strategy, that´s half the point of using a new map - we have no idea what the strategies would be more a map with, say, 2 entrances and a 10 player maximum. The only way to prove what squad is top tier is to constantly change the arena. If people are hellbent on keeping the old map, leave the division in place. It´s like the spider league - the first map sucked so nobody played it, so, instead of abandoning the league, just change the map. Easy.

Let´s get some diversity in the basing scene.

[Sufficient]

I still think 2 opening base is the way to renew interest and provide something interesting to basing. The roof idea was just that ... for the roof, not really to eliminate cram. I think the purpose isn't really to eliminate cram.

The purpose for change should be to provide something new, challenging, and exciting to basing. Allow teams to learn a new map, and learn how to implement new strategies.

[CrvenBan]

Nah. Levs will never be used in basing. As I said, using a lev would just force the opposing team to get someone spawn the lev for the whole match. The rest would be cramming normally.

Levs would rule the basing, given the ppl who know how to use them (like with specs today). I even tried getting staff to host few ?go base games with "good" caps where each side would have to pick 1 lev in a 15 min race, but noooo


If opposing team spawns the lev, the lev team provides a cover, then the opposing team cover that, then you have a whole bunch of ppl running around spawn, an nme terr (if smart) porting inside fr/lower, fr battle with lev going hiding, or 7s in base (do you dare lose freq to hunting lev?)
Levs should be given old setup, 3 reps, port, AND due to possible spec-hunting a fully modded stealth...oh oh oh!...now how's that for possibilities...

[Kuukunen]

I dunno if it's still around but I tried to tweak ?go base to open up roof (perhaps to make javs even more viable then they are now).

?go basesuff ... or ?go suffbase

Even a simple change to ?go boki (with cleaner tiles) would be a welcomed change imo.

Yea it's around. But opening the roof like that is not a solution for cram. :/
If it was, people would be roof javing already in the current map. Yea it's been done in ?go base, and at times it has worked, but it's too easy to make the roof jav completely useless.

[Sufficient]

I dunno if it's still around but I tried to tweak ?go base to open up roof (perhaps to make javs even more viable then they are now).

?go basesuff ... or ?go suffbase

Even a simple change to ?go boki (with cleaner tiles) would be a welcomed change imo.

[Kuukunen]

Thats my point, its an entirly ineffective tactic. You really need a floating shark (that can move to where the blue bomb is going to hit to defend the fr effectivly from leviathan. non-pure pub is where the next generations of basers will come from, ones that won't cry when they get hit with a blue bomb.

Nah. Levs will never be used in basing. As I said, using a lev would just force the opposing team to get someone spawn the lev for the whole match. The rest would be cramming normally.

If all these tactics are so bad, why restrict ships at all? If a team had 1 terrier, 2 sharks, 3 lancs and 2 weasels of the type in pub now they would cause havoc in the flagroom, if the other team was trying to cram. The lancasters could then setup a solid line which would be hard to get into base. espescially with the weasels. To counter this teams could use a leviathan or serveral javs to render the weasels ineffective. Maybe its because i'm not a baser but i find twlb so unimaganative in the ship choices advaible because of all the restrictions. Theres no room for imagainative new tactics. Changing the map will only work untill a new version of the "cram" is found.

So basing should be just like non-pure pub? Personally I hate playing in non-pure pubs. Mostly because I want to base, and that's impossible there. Please don't try to suggest to make basing impossible in TWLB.

Oh and it seems I had some troubles with my server, so the picture didn't show up in the original post. Here it is again:

[Doc Flabby]

And yea, some idiot would just lev and blow up the cram.

Thats my point, its an entirly ineffective tactic. You really need a floating shark (that can move to where the blue bomb is going to hit to defend the fr effectivly from leviathan. non-pure pub is where the next generations of basers will come from, ones that won't cry when they get hit with a blue bomb.

There was a period where two terriers were allowed, people hated it. The pub style weasel has been in ?go base (if I recall correctly) as well, it was ineffective. I don't think that using 4 sharks would be a cram buster, it seems that with 3-4 sharks, one could maintain a permanent repel wall, which would be the advantage for the defending team. Introducing the leviathan can be interesting though.

If all these tactics are so bad, why restrict ships at all? If a team had 1 terrier, 2 sharks, 3 lancs and 2 weasels of the type in pub now they would cause havoc in the flagroom, if the other team was trying to cram. The lancasters could then setup a solid line which would be hard to get into base. espescially with the weasels. To counter this teams could use a leviathan or serveral javs to render the weasels ineffective. Maybe its because i'm not a baser but i find twlb so unimaganative in the ship choices advaible because of all the restrictions. Theres no room for imagainative new tactics. Changing the map will only work untill a new version of the "cram" is found.

I would allow a captain to make unlimited ship changes with unrestricted ships. Allowing a team to adapt to an opponent.

[Kuukunen]

The limits in twlb have created the cram as a tactic, in (non-pure) pub no one crams, its simply ineffective tactic.

It's not because it's ineffective. In non-pure pubs no one crams, because non-pure pubs are pure mess. :P

Cramming would need one terr, couple of spids and two sharks to be actually something that resembles cramming. All would have to know what they're doing. All sensible basers who are pubbing are probably in pure pub anyways, so chances for a real cram is nonexistent. And yea, some idiot would just lev and blow up the cram.

Now, lev in TWLB would change the dynamics. Sure, test it if you want, but using a lev in basing would most likely turn it into something horrible. :P
If a team chose to use lev, in the opposing team there would probably be one spid assigned to just concentrate on spawning it.