TWL Update Thread

[Dabram]

someone explain to me how the 'twl is only 1 month away, we didn't even have time to test it out'-argument is defending your point of view? as if you'd actually would've voted for 2 terrs 3 months ago...
it's coming from the same people who are clearly against anything but 1 terr, 2 sharks + 5 spiders. so it's not like you would've tested it out at all, just like you've never tested playing with 1jav+1wb. so don't use bullshit arguments.
in fact; you're actually in advantage that you can't even practise 2 terrs yet; it's even less likely anyone will use it.

and to be honest; even disoblige with a crazy euro in charge wouldn't seriously think about using 2 terrs. (and it's not even likely we're gonna be getting into twlb anyway, so the only 1wb+1jav squad will be gone as well so it'll just be 5 spids-squads, none of you should even care about these changes.. unlimited shipchanges, unlimited uses of ships, who cares? you'd all just use 1terr,2sharks,5spids.. so why all the drama)

as for 2 terrs; i've never seen much advantages in it. it takes too much communication to make it work. sharks/spiders need to know exactly who to attach to at every death, plus sharks would need to know from eachother as well.. this would require a whole team of people in spec pm'ing the players in game.. something way too advanced and something we'll never see in this game.. so it's not gonna happen.

only way i could see some squads using 2 terrs is at start:
start with 2 terrs --> one dies --> immediately change to spider (or w/e ship). (you have 6 changes now anyway)
this could be useful for squads who have either a weak spiderline or 5th spider, or a weak terr.
logically one terr could try to start very aggressive and use his portal immediately to try and burst near the nme terr and get him out of position or to use his portal early in the fr-fight.. then again; you'd need 2 terrs that are equally skilled; so you don't end up changing your better terrier as he dies first to spider and getting punished for that later on..


ps. to knockers; last season wasn't 16 but 12; which was too much to make twl a competitive league.. the better squads didn't have to try at all during the regular season to make it to the playoffs.. and there were way too many replacementsquads every weekend.. that's just not how TWL should be, it has to be something to try and work up to.
pps. a month ago it looked like 10 squads would be competitive for ld; right now i think 8 would be better, even my squad managed to get into top 7 within 2 days. that's insane we have 6 decent wbs at most of which half are rusty as fuck. i can't say i totally mind though..



ppps. jeen please give up on making it to twlb; my squad needs sharks baaaaaaaaaaadly!!

[Sirius]

I'm not sure what TWLD squad captains you spoke to but It feels like yet again someone in staff took the whining on the forums with not enough salt and here are the rest of suffering for it again. I can't tell you how many changes I've seen over the past couple years within the zone where an over-zealous group of people came onto the forums and whined about it and it seemed as though it was the right decision but in reality not all of us use the forums and not all of us check them often enough to hop on and complain about possible changes.


Also, you're basically seeing in this LB discussion thread similar reactions. You have people threatening to not play (entire squad(s) even) for this LB decision, it's the same thing though, they have something that they enjoy and you're essentially threatening to take that away. Again, I'm not saying 2 terrs is a good or bad decision, just that it's directly similar to the change in TWLD. I just hope that we can learn from our mistakes in the past, how many more seasons to people need to endure where the last couple of squads to get into TWLD were extremely lackluster, get trampled all over and drop out of the league? You were spot on with your judgment of 8 squads for TWLD and yet you allowed the forums to sway you, please look to the past to see the results of similar decisions. Just because the majority might feel one way or the other doesn't mean that they're right. You were put into that position because someone felt you had the ability to make conscious, well-thought decisions, not so that you could hold open polls on the forums. - Reaver

Reaver hit the nail on the head again, and like he said, he didnt even want to come here and talk about it, but just like him there is a great amount of players that believe the same thing but don't necessarily want to, or have to say anything.

But again, the only person I usually see ever even dispute this everywhere like clockwork is Capital Knockers, who of course, runs a squad of the much lower caliber which could possibly be threatened to not have chance at TWLD at all. Which only fuels Voth or whoever's idea that he's just up for giving his squad a chance at TWL, but in all reality, those squads aren't meant for our 'premiere' league; maybe something one shorter, but higher than TWD, but that's still another story. Like Reaver said, TWL is about competition, not blowing out squads and waiting for playoffs finally, hoping 2 of the 3 squads there will be challenging.

If you really think it's going to make things that easy - how bout a little less talk and a little more winning LD? - Capital Knockers

I don't have to win LD to sweep through rows of Whiskeyjacks and Deadly Divas before getting to the serious eliminations or whatnot. Not sure why your fallacies are supposed to undermine my point.

years ago squads like elusive, light, rampage didn't give a rat's ass about playing squads that are ranked number 6-8 - Jones

You're comparing apples and oranges here. Years ago your typical 'TWL Scrub Squad' like No Surrender that would go 2-10 would wipe out most of the TWDD ladder squadss save the 3-5 current top squads, had it existed today, because it was still a powerful squad but compared to the other squads back then it was nothing.

Let's go back halfway through TWL's life and look at season 6's TWLD Roster -

Melee, Disoblige, Sk8, Egyptian, Solstice, Light, No Surrender, Supremacy

Rampage, Pallies, Elusive, Shriek, Value, Dragonguard, Cripples, British Squad

Out of those 16 squads, your argument is Elusive/Ramp etc didn't care to play the squads in 6th-8th place...what would that be Sk8, Value, Dragonguard, Egyptian ???? All those squads would decimate the ladder nowadays, so of course they wouldn't mind playing them. Back then to get into a fight with a crappy squad of no goodness you had to fight someone in like the 20th spot in TWD. I think you get the point I'm getting at.

By the way, it's not 'just 2 more squads' that we are talking about here that is the problem. The problem is, the staff's 'intended desire' to bring new players into TWL too is already dangerously stretched with 8 squads as there isnt even THAT many true TWLD squads right now..especially with the dissolvement of Stray and Dice losing all it's WBs...we have what, Pirates, Solstice, Quake, Thunder? That leave 4 WHOLE spots open for that 'potential players' spots. To add 2 more to that...thats 6 spots, or more than HALF of TWL would be 'up and potential for TWL' squads, and less than half actual TWL caliber squads. It doesn't take rocket science to figure this out.

[pascone]

i was afk when most of the meeting happened, winning twddrtetd or whatever it was called


but i pretty much agree with stabwound. often (not naming any names, so don't get all offended) people get power hungry and make drastic changes with limited information and pretty much do it on their own whim (i'd give another example, but staff will yell at me for being honest again)

for the record, i believe i've already said somewhere that 8 should have been the way to go for twld. generally the people that want more than 8 teams, are the fringe squads that just want to get into twl and try to make some noise. the better squads (we all know who they are) don't want as many because playing the extra games is typically a waste of time

as for two terrs... well.. certainly would have asked many people about this

[Dwopple]

save it for next season, give us an entire offseason before you throw this at us. like you did with the blocks....also with blocks, you let us have a poll to decide.

AFTER this TWL season, implement the 2 terr idea for awhile, THEN let us have a poll to decide if it should be for TWL as well, or to abolish it all together

[Sirius]

Pascone makes a drastic, but honest statement

Edit: the better squads (we all know who they are) don't want as many because playing the extra games is typically a waste of time - Pascone

But pascone ! Mirrorrim said that she asked the TOP TWL CAPS and they said NAY! Forget what the better squads or players think

[Daldur]

What the fuck? Thunder is already disadvantaged by having phizey as terr, now we gotta find a second one?

edit: luv u phiz

[Daldur]

i liked how basing was done like WAYYY BACK in like 2001

no 8v8.. just get as much ppl as u can for a game and the team with the most ppl WINS! =)

nimrook lol

[Kim]

I too also feel that this 2 terr idea was thrown out there to create a buzz without adequate support for such an idea. From my point of view, if the idea of 4 spider limit was enforced this season, it would at least make sense where our direction for TWL is coming from..the constant battle between advocators of the 5 spider lineup versus advocators of the usage of a special ship as shown through months of discussion on these forums. No where had it been discussed that the introduction of a 2nd terrier would be a fine idea to look into.

It would seem logical to bring in less squads into each league due to a declining population, but I'd be more for shortening the season in order to give the effect that each game contributes more to the final goal of getting to the final. Also...I think more work should be looked into what the league should do after a squad drops out. Instead of having a replacement squad come in, games should be scheduled among current squads to fill those holes in a balanced manner.

[Capital Knockers]

But again, the only person I usually see ever even dispute this everywhere like clockwork is Capital Knockers, who of course, runs a squad of the much lower caliber which could possibly be threatened to not have chance at TWLD at all. Which only fuels Voth or whoever's idea that he's just up for giving his squad a chance at TWL, but in all reality, those squads aren't meant for our 'premiere' league; maybe something one shorter, but higher than TWD, but that's still another story. Like Reaver said, TWL is about competition, not blowing out squads and waiting for playoffs finally, hoping 2 of the 3 squads there will be challenging.

If you really think it's going to make things that easy - how bout a little less talk and a little more winning LD? - Capital Knockers

I don't have to win LD to sweep through rows of Whiskeyjacks and Deadly Divas before getting to the serious eliminations or whatnot. Not sure why your fallacies are supposed to undermine my point.

First of all, I was unaware that it was 12 last year and not 16. Glad someone finally cleared that up for me, thanks bram. Seeing that, I can sympathize with the arguement for 8 a little more. However it still doesn't change my mind. The difference between Whiskeyjack and Deadly Divas is simple - we've actually beat Solstice, Pirates, Sweet etc. Granted you guys beat us alot more, but we didn't take those wins because these squads played a basing line or anything, we played well.

As much as it may seem like I'm only arguing these things 'like clockwork' because my squads chances of making LD are not as great as previously mentioned squads, I for the millionth time am going to say thats not entirely true. Yes, I do argue to better my squads chances. I'd be a shit captain if I didn't do everything in my power to have my squad make twl. I'm not just coming on the forums ranting or whining, I make valid, backed up points and arguements. Unlike all the basers and shit you see attacking the 2 terr thing. (honestly shit guys, go read brams post and calm down. You're all acting as if you've been told spiders are illegal in basing and you can only use 2 terrs. It's optional, and no one is going to use the option, nothings going to change - stop fucking freaking out)

This game will die eventually, but I want it to last as long as it can. Constantly cutting down TWL-squads, is only quickening TWs demise. Granted it might increase competition in the short-term, but long term? I highly doubt it. The squads that make it are going to be the same tight knit people, big rosters, why is anyone else even going to bother trying to fight them? Most people in TW would just rather try and secure a spot on one of those rosters. The point is simple. TWD isn't an AML. So that makes TWL our ONLY league. You can call it Premiere league, but until we've got something to go with it, it isn't. It's the leagues, plain and simple. It's like a weekend event, happens once in a while, gets TW active. How are younger squads suppose to get any good if they never get a chance to play against these top squads when they actually supposedly 'care'?

Honestly, if we get an AML going, sure drop it to 8, or 6, whatever. Until we do, you're only hurting TW as a whole by cutting out more squads. Drop-outs can be handled, and as much as you think you'd easily stomp all over us - there have always been underdogs (that under 4-8 squads would never see a twl game) that have made you top vets eat your words. So until that middle ground you've made reference to is developed, why can't you suffer a couple more squads? I just think we should be trying to make the entire TW community happy, rather than just trying to please the same group of veterans.

[castromarx]

I didn't read anything except the first post because I don't really want to read about dice complaining about change but:

Awesome work changing up twlb. Do anything. 3 spid limit. Give sharks a bullet. Speed up lancs. Make the lev viable. Change the map entirely. Do anything to make it fun again.

The good squads and players will figure it out.

If I were head of twlb, I'd choose my 10 favourite basing maps and make squads play on a random one chosen just before the match. Unlimited ship changes.

[Efhat]

I didn't read anything except the first post because I don't really want to read about dice complaining about change but:

Awesome work changing up twlb. Do anything. 3 spid limit. Give sharks a bullet. Speed up lancs. Make the lev viable. Change the map entirely. Do anything to make it fun again.

The good squads and players will figure it out.

If I were head of twlb, I'd choose my 10 favourite basing maps and make squads play on a random one chosen just before the match. Unlimited ship changes.

and thats why they created twl, to not play with newbie stupid fukin settings like that


And seriously, do you seriously, seriously, announce twl to be late October then literally have the balls to throw out 2 terrs on the 23rd? man, and u guys seriously wonder why this zone is dying? seriously? you guys take day in and day out thinking of ideas to improve this zone, and ways to advertise for it, but then stupid decisions like that (2 terrs) is the reason why this zone is dying
You already had the 4 spid limit vetoed, you already took out the blocks, seriously, why are you going to keep fucking with this league? TWLD and TWLJ havent been bothered, why are you going to keep trying to put this stupidity into a league thats still trying to be figured out? seriously...
2 terrs is retarded, it's going to be like having TW vs Staff in ?go boki, thats what its going to look like, why have such a stupid setting in leagues?
Like everyone else said, as a baser, you gave us offseason to deal with that no block shit, why are you going to give us less then a month to deal with such a major setting?
Let it be already, you've done enough to LB, just leave it alone. Look at all these basers posting up hate posts (including me) threatening they arent going to play the league, it's going to fuck it up more huh? it's reasonable to give us next offseason to try it out and put a poll up for it, cause I know I surely wont play either if that shit is going to be put up

[Capital Knockers]

and thats why they created twl, to not play with newbie stupid fukin settings like that


And seriously, do you seriously, seriously, announce twl to be late October then literally have the balls to throw out 2 terrs on the 23rd? man, and u guys seriously wonder why this zone is dying? seriously? you guys take day in and day out thinking of ideas to improve this zone, and ways to advertise for it, but then stupid decisions like that (2 terrs) is the reason why this zone is dying
You already had the 4 spid limit vetoed, you already took out the blocks, seriously, why are you going to keep fucking with this league? TWLD and TWLJ havent been bothered, why are you going to keep trying to put this stupidity into a league thats still trying to be figured out? seriously...
2 terrs is retarded, it's going to be like having TW vs Staff in ?go boki, thats what its going to look like, why have such a stupid setting in leagues?
Like everyone else said, as a baser, you gave us offseason to deal with that no block shit, why are you going to give us less then a month to deal with such a major setting?
Let it be already, you've done enough to LB, just leave it alone. Look at all these basers posting up hate posts (including me) threatening they arent going to play the league, it's going to fuck it up more huh? it's reasonable to give us next offseason to try it out and put a poll up for it, cause I know I surely wont play either if that shit is going to be put up

LETS TRY THIS SINCE PEOPLE CANT SEEM TO FUCKING READ. YOU AREN'T BEING FORCED TO USE 2 TERRS. EVERYONE AGREES THE IDEA SUCKS THEREFORE NO ONE WILL USE IT. YOUR ENTIRE RANT HAS BEEN POINTLESS. CAN YOU ALL PLEASE STOP DRIVING YOUR FUCKING COCKS INTO THE WALL AND JUST SEE PURE LOGIC? FUCKING CHRIST.

edit - heh, never had a reason to use big letters before, looks forceful :fear:

[TopGod]

I'm not going to read 3 pages of replies, so forgive me if someone said this already:

- Increase the limit to 9v9
- Allow all ships (if levi or weasel have to be tweaked, so be it)
- 2 terrs is no good unless you're atleast 10v10

[Efhat]

LETS TRY THIS SINCE PEOPLE CANT SEEM TO FUCKING READ. YOU AREN'T BEING FORCED TO USE 2 TERRS. EVERYONE AGREES THE IDEA SUCKS THEREFORE NO ONE WILL USE IT. YOUR ENTIRE RANT HAS BEEN POINTLESS. CAN YOU ALL PLEASE STOP DRIVING YOUR FUCKING COCKS INTO THE WALL AND JUST SEE PURE LOGIC? FUCKING CHRIST.

edit - heh, never had a reason to use big letters before, looks forceful :fear:

WHY ADD SUCH A FUCKING RULE IF NO ONE IS GOING TO USE IT? YOUR ARGUEMENT IS POINTLESS TOO

[MirrorriM]

Pascone makes a drastic, but honest statement

Edit: the better squads (we all know who they are) don't want as many because playing the extra games is typically a waste of time - Pascone

But pascone ! Mirrorrim said that she asked the TOP TWL CAPS and they said NAY! Forget what the better squads or players think

I find it interesting that I'm apparently supposed to dig around and find all the old vets possible and make sure they agree with the change and completely ignore the playerbase discussing the changes right here on the forums. At least they are interested in helping with TWL by providing their suggestions or criticisms, rather than waiting til the change has already been established (saying nothing) then figuring since everyone is complaining about one thing, I might as well complain, too! If the top 10 TWLD squads on the ladder think 10 is fine, ok. If also the past TWLD squads think it's fine, then great. Of course I'm going to look at past TWLD caps because they are the active ones playing in TWLD and who will be playing against these extra 2 squads.

In other news, I'm glad that people are finally starting to rationally think about the 2 terr change. Keep up the discussion. This change was talked about over in that '4 spid limit' thread for people who assume this wasnt talked about. A lot of 'seasoned' basers thought no ship limits would be even better. I do wish I could have finished the testing that was stopped early and be allowed to test it in TWD. I guess I mistakenly assumed TWL squads would be good enough to adapt.

If I was so power hungry, I wouldnt be asking anyone's opinions about changes in the several threads on these forums. If I was so superior, I could have just left everything the same as last season and sit around and do nothing. But instead I read all of the TWL threads since last season, wrote down all the major criticisms and complaints, and tried to resolve most of them. Obviously I'm doing all this because I dont care about TWL at all and I just like being a smod.