TWL Update Thread

[Nova Itachi]

Hi friends

Steal my line more?

[Vehicle]

Dwopple: Shut the fuck up please. No offense, but you're talking out of your ass in circular arguments that are neither logical or correct. I could sit and pick them apart, but other forum vultures have already picked what little meat was left on your argument's bones.

For everyone calling it a drastic change: it isn't. Adding the ability (not the requirement) to have 2 terrs is about as minor a change as you could put into TWLB. I'll reiterate my previous statement: no one is going to use it unless they suck or are playing another squad that sucks because there isn't enough time to practice the lineup. I think you all could agree on this, so why are you bitching?

You duelers who are commenting: you're arguments and ideas are not entirely unfounded, but unless you've played at least a season of TWLB at some point you should probably keep your opinion to yourself.

...trying to rememeber what else was retarded about this thread...

Oh, those of you saying it's unfair to force someone to play against a certain lineup: seriously, shut the fuck up. That's like me saying it's unfair to force me to play against 5 spiders because my squad likes to play a special, or that it's unfair to force me to play against a warbird because my squad's terr sucks ass and can't dodge. You should bitch about what you're really pissed about rather than beat around that bush, and that's the fact that the 1 terr limit has been removed, not that you might have to play against it.

I'm not for or against the new rule. What I'm in favor of is change, flavor, something other than the same monotonous bullshit that was TWLB and has been TWLB for the past 4-5 seasons. Suck it up and adapt, or are you guys too new to remember when people still lined?

[Dwopple]

Dwopple: Shut the fuck up please. No offense, but you're talking out of your ass in circular arguments that are neither logical or correct. I could sit and pick them apart, but other forum vultures have already picked what little meat was left on your argument's bones.

For everyone calling it a drastic change: it isn't. Adding the ability (not the requirement) to have 2 terrs is about as minor a change as you could put into TWLB. I'll reiterate my previous statement: no one is going to use it unless they suck or are playing another squad that sucks because there isn't enough time to practice the lineup. I think you all could agree on this, so why are you bitching?

You duelers who are commenting: you're arguments and ideas are not entirely unfounded, but unless you've played at least a season of TWLB at some point you should probably keep your opinion to yourself.

...trying to rememeber what else was retarded about this thread...

Oh, those of you saying it's unfair to force someone to play against a certain lineup: seriously, shut the fuck up. That's like me saying it's unfair to force me to play against 5 spiders because my squad likes to play a special, or that it's unfair to force me to play against a warbird because my squad's terr sucks ass and can't dodge. You should bitch about what you're really pissed about rather than beat around that bush, and that's the fact that the 1 terr limit has been removed, not that you might have to play against it.

I'm not for or against the new rule. What I'm in favor of is change, flavor, something other than the same monotonous bullshit that was TWLB and has been TWLB for the past 4-5 seasons. Suck it up and adapt, or are you guys to new to remember when people still lined?

2 terrs has proven to be useless/retarded in go base, so PL removed that option.


the option shouldnt be allowed, its a premature move with not enough testing to support its purpose. if some1 uses it its obviously a dumb choice. so why even allow it? no one likes a blow out match anymore.


put more thought into changing up basing with some REAL testing, REAL public OPINIONS, and maybe....a REAL map change. because thats what the 2 terr idea needs.

[Capital Knockers]

I'm not concerned about the change in itself, but I'm concerned about the way it was gone about. Removing the blocks was whined about, but it was given enough testing for people to ultimately see that it was actually a good idea. I certainly like it, and I bet most people do. Maybe people would feel the same way about allowing 2 terriers if it was given as much time to be tested as the map change was?

Also, enforcing a 4-spider limit is the wrong way to go about it. I've been saying this for years. If people are using 5 spiders then there is a reason for it. Perhaps that reason might be that spiders are overpowered? Or maybe the other ships just aren't good enough? Whatever the case may be, forcing people to play a certain lineup is stupid, and it's not getting to the root of the problem. It's ridiculous to say, "You are forced to play a warbird now! Look how fun and exciting we've made the game now!!" Give people a reason to play that warbird, but don't force them to.

As far has having no ship limits at all, that would be ideal in a perfect world. However, there are a few issues with that. For one, the current map (flagroom, specifically) is far too small to accommodate multiple ships other than spiders. The map would have to be radically changed if this was going to be put into effect. Then, there's another problem with that: the teams would be too small to fill up such a large map. Besides that, no squad is going to seriously use anything but 5 spiders, other than squads with lag abuser javelins. I remember Disoblige at the beginning of last season, talking about how cool their wb+jav strategy was. Really worked great, didn't it guys?

Secondly, let's face it: Subspace is an old game. Lag already has a profound effect on games because of the way the client/server works. How many times have you saw a person blow up for no apparent reason, but on their screen they had hit a burst? How about the times when your jav shoots a bomb, and everyone dies except the terr, who saw no bomb at all on their screen? Do you know how much different (and better) the game would be if everybody saw the exact same thing on their screens? Having even more bursts and bombs and whatnot is going to make the game even more random. You might as well go play Snakes & Ladders. Ideally, TWL would be played on a LAN, but that's obviously not going to happen.

The only reason I dislike javelins is because the only ones that are considered "good" are the players that abuse lag and the bug with rockets+repels. Against an evenly matched team, a warbird is mostly irrelevant, and so is a javelin that doesn't abuse the fuck out of lag. I'd ask to be named a "good" javelin that doesn't do this, but unfortunately, that's impossible.

Best collection of arguements I've EVER heard for the no-spider limit. Enough so that you've convinced me that perhaps increasing a wbs strength, or decreasing a spiders strength might be the best way to go after all. I wish people on dicE could form something like this, rather than just throwing a bunch of swearing and rambling into a forums post and assuming it's going to have any impact whatsoever.

I decided to ask 16 squadcaptains on the TWLD ladder what they thought. - Mirrorrim

This is a funny point, considering it contradicts Mirrorrim trying to claim that it was based off the 'past TWL squadcaptains' when there is nowhere near 16 of those in TWD right now, maybe 5 or 6 tops for TWLD.

You know what I find funny? You completely side-stepped every well thought out and logical point I had and resorted to taking another worthless pot-shot at Mirr. Real classy buddy.

If the top 16 teams were asked, 8 of those teams weren't making twl (9-16). Obviously they would want more teams to give them a better chance. Teams ranked 5-8 might not feel secure about their ability to hold their spots, and thus, vote for more teams to ensure a better buffer.

It's no suprise that it was increased to 10

Sirius: you sure like to ignore all the facts, dont you. I asked top 16. I paid attention to the squads highest on the ladder. Even more attention to past TWLD squads. ... want a surprising fact? The squads lower on the ladder voted for 8, they thought they werent good enough. The squads highest on the ladder thought 10 was good. Since they are the ones actually playing against these 2 extra squads, I will pay attention to them.

mirror stop being power hungry with this subject!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! youre saying 'if someone can prove to me why its a bad idea ill consider removing it' ....... what the fuck ???? since when was basing left up to you??? the proof is in the hatred of what you have changed to basing...the majority of the people dont like what youre doing here!!! and 80% of the people who support it are from disoblige and complain for changes since they havent won shit since it started 7 seasons ago.


power to the people ffs. take it down until we have more time to test it. simple as that.

Dwopple I really don't think you understand Mirr at all. She's the furthest thing from power hungry I've seen when it comes to staff, and could potentially be one of the best TWL Ops we've ever had. She's trying to please everyone, because that's her job. Even if it causes people to hate on her, she's trying to make everyone happy. She's done nothing but accept constructive opinions, and do everything in her power to change TWL for the better in a time where change is needed. I completely agree with your main point Dwop, it is too soon before TWL to be making anymore huge changes - but that's exactly the point every baser here seems to be missing. NO ONE is going to use 2 terrs this season. Disoblige might try it as a joke, but other than that, it won't happen. Mirr knows this, and very wisely has played both sides of the field. She's made a change to basing to please all the old school basers who are tired of it being stale - yet she's done it in a way that isn't going to have ANY immediate effect. That way, the basers who like things the same, won't complain. That's fucking brilliant. Only problem is she seemed to over-estimate the general intelligence level of the 'dice-like' basers. People are over-reacting and making personal attacks, accusing her of being power hungry. Honestly, we don't want to scare this TWL Op off, try to step back from all the anger for a second and take another look at everything.

also for all you queers talking about 'youre not being forced to play it' 'its an option' well:

we are being forced to play this kind of basing (mirror just said it was put in BASE and TWBD)

and if its an option, why not put it in base2 or make some other league where players actually WILL have the option to play it or not. instead of forcing it on us and just throwing it out there with no details or anything. there was no warning to this change, it was literally done overnight without poll or MAJORITY public opinion. and if you did ask alot of people, who exactly? im getting the feeling many people who havent won an LB title in a long time (disoblige) were the ones asked.

You contridict yourself so easily. You aren't being forced to play it at all, the option is just available for those who do. I don't see how you can still be arguing this, considering you were the one just recently saying that there wasn't anytime to test things.

true 5 or 6. Dice being 1 of them. And I was not asked - megaman89

ROFL are you kidding me? You weren't even asked? Wow, that just makes me wonder all the more who these '2-4 past TWL' squadcaptains were that said Yes to 10 squads considering I know I said no and I am one of those 2-4.

And you're telling me all the 'lower' squads thought they weren't good enough for TWL and wouldn't want to be able to get in? Wow I never knew we had such humble-hearted charitable players amassed in this zone.

I honestly am starting to lean towards thinking you are bullshitting at this point. Dice's cap mega wasn't asked it is verified now, even if there are 'other' dice caps that would be favoring towards certain caps if you only asked 'certain' captains on top squads and it's not even confirmed whether they were asked, and so far I havent heard of any 'past TWL caps' or 'Top ladder squads' saying they voted for 10. Either way, my initial paragraph up there to you underlines how 'top ladder squads' voting for it was flawed anyway.

When I hear someone other than megaman89 saying they weren't asked, I might be with you on the bullshit thing Sirius. I'd bet a thousand dollars that megaman89 would tell a lie before Mirr, or half the people on this game for that matter.

Maybe you've never met these humble people because of the way you act towards them?

- Now I'm going to get some fucking food, and might try to read page 5 when I get back.

[Vehicle]

Alright, just to prove a point I'll sit here and pick apart your argument:

To say two terrs is useless or retarded is merely stating an opinion based on ... 4 days? of testing. It takes time for people to come up with tactics after a change has been implemented and so it's a little premature to call it useless or retarded. If you're thinking "But what possible use could two terrs pose other than the extra burst?" I'll give you a few examples that should not be taken literally but merely are options that could, and should, be explored:

1) One "safe terr" and one "attacking terr" against a cram could presumably make the cram more easily broken
2) Have the second terr try to force their way into the opposing teams side of flagroom during a battle, thus forcing them to above the flag leaving them open to being flanked.
3) Have the terrs sit on opposite side of cram thus eliminating the need to balance the cram by flying across the opening of the base.

These are just ideas, I'm not even saying they're good ones, but it does prove my point that 2 terrs has not been proven useless.

I agree it's a little late for a rule change about lineups and that squads should have been given more time to test different tactics. But again, saying "if someone uses it, it's obviously a dumb choice" is another example of you passing on your opinion as proven fact. Why is it such a dumb choice? For a new squad that would obviously be inferior to a more seasoned 5 spid lineup I think 2 terrs provides a perfect oppritunity to develop a new tactic that is not as easily understood and defended against.

If this is too theoretical for you, I'll include an example: Dice vs Brainwave (sorry BW, you're just the newest decent squad) would presumably be a blowout in favor of dice. So rather than play a 5 spid lineup that would get shit on, BW could decide to play a second terr thereby increasing the amount of flagroom battles (because if one terr dies there is often enough time to run back up the tube and get in before the second one bites it) and hopefully win a few of said battles. Then they could set their terrs on either side of the cram and hope their sharks and weaker 4 spid lineup could hold the cram for any substantial amount of time.

Again, not to be taken literally, merely am providing an example that refutes your point.

And as far as a "REAL map change," you all are flipping a shit that they're letting 2 terrs in TWLB, could you imagine the uproar after a map change? And please don't say there wouldn't be one, because there would be.

(And as a note, before you say this, I don't think the current flagroom is too small for 4 terrs. Sharks just need to rep better to contain bursts, which really isn't that hard.)

[Capital Knockers]

this is turning into a circlejerk. nobody's getting anywhere and there's no convincing either side.

I'm doing my best to shoot them down as they post, but they're damned comendable these guys. Such motivation behind all their blind hatred! Hard to keep up you know bro?

[HateTheFake]

Best collection of arguements I've EVER heard for the no-spider limit. Enough so that you've convinced me that perhaps increasing a wbs strength, or decreasing a spiders strength might be the best way to go after all. I wish people on dicE could form something like this, rather than just throwing a bunch of swearing and rambling into a forums post and assuming it's going to have any impact whatsoever.



You know what I find funny? You completely side-stepped every well thought out and logical point I had and resorted to taking another worthless pot-shot at Mirr. Real classy buddy.







Dwopple I really don't think you understand Mirr at all. She's the furthest thing from power hungry I've seen when it comes to staff, and could potentially be one of the best TWL Ops we've ever had. She's trying to please everyone, because that's her job. Even if it causes people to hate on her, she's trying to make everyone happy. She's done nothing but accept constructive opinions, and do everything in her power to change TWL for the better in a time where change is needed. I completely agree with your main point Dwop, it is too soon before TWL to be making anymore huge changes - but that's exactly the point every baser here seems to be missing. NO ONE is going to use 2 terrs this season. Disoblige might try it as a joke, but other than that, it won't happen. Mirr knows this, and very wisely has played both sides of the field. She's made a change to basing to please all the old school basers who are tired of it being stale - yet she's done it in a way that isn't going to have ANY immediate effect. That way, the basers who like things the same, won't complain. That's fucking brilliant. Only problem is she seemed to over-estimate the general intelligence level of the 'dice-like' basers. People are over-reacting and making personal attacks, accusing her of being power hungry. Honestly, we don't want to scare this TWL Op off, try to step back from all the anger for a second and take another look at everything.



You contridict yourself so easily. You aren't being forced to play it at all, the option is just available for those who do. I don't see how you can still be arguing this, considering you were the one just recently saying that there wasn't anytime to test things.



When I hear someone other than megaman89 saying they weren't asked, I might be with you on the bullshit thing Sirius. I'd bet a thousand dollars that megaman89 would tell a lie before Mirr, or half the people on this game for that matter.

Maybe you've never met these humble people because of the way you act towards them?

- Now I'm going to get some fucking food, and might try to read page 5 when I get back.

the smartest thing ive read today

[Dwopple]

Alright, just to prove a point I'll sit here and pick apart your argument:

To say two terrs is useless or retarded is merely stating an opinion based on ... 4 days? of testing. It takes time for people to come up with tactics after a change has been implemented and so it's a little premature to call it useless or retarded. If you're thinking "But what possible use could two terrs pose other than the extra burst?" I'll give you a few examples that should not be taken literally but merely are options that could, and should, be explored:

1) One "safe terr" and one "attacking terr" against a cram could presumably make the cram more easily broken
2) Have the second terr try to force their way into the opposing teams side of flagroom during a battle, thus forcing them to above the flag leaving them open to being flanked.
3) Have the terrs sit on opposite side of cram thus eliminating the need to balance the cram by flying across the opening of the base.

These are just ideas, I'm not even saying they're good ones, but it does prove my point that 2 terrs has not been proven useless.

I agree it's a little late for a rule change about lineups and that squads should have been given more time to test different tactics. But again, saying "if someone uses it, it's obviously a dumb choice" is another example of you passing on your opinion as proven fact. Why is it such a dumb choice? For a new squad that would obviously be inferior to a more seasoned 5 spid lineup I think 2 terrs provides a perfect oppritunity to develop a new tactic that is not as easily understood and defended against.

If this is too theoretical for you, I'll include an example: Dice vs Brainwave (sorry BW, you're just the newest decent squad) would presumably be a blowout in favor of dice. So rather than play a 5 spid lineup that would get shit on, BW could decide to play a second terr thereby increasing the amount of flagroom battles (because if one terr dies there is often enough time to run back up the tube and get in before the second one bites it) and hopefully win a few of said battles. Then they could set their terrs on either side of the cram and hope their sharks and weaker 4 spid lineup could hold the cram for any substantial amount of time.

Again, not to be taken literally, merely am providing an example that refutes your point.

And as far as a "REAL map change," you all are flipping a shit that they're letting 2 terrs in TWLB, could you imagine the uproar after a map change? And please don't say there wouldn't be one, because there would be.

(And as a note, before you say this, I don't think the current flagroom is too small for 4 terrs. Sharks just need to rep better to contain bursts, which really isn't that hard.)

wow you picked me apart so good there vehicle....anyways...

ive already talked about the possible uses with a 2nd terr to my squaddies

what ive heard about this 2 terr idea is "its like playing a man down"

there was an uproar over removing the 2 blocks, but it worked out for the better didnt it?

btw 2 terrs was tested in base for 2 weeks? i think it was that..and people are still saying its pointless.



and back to you, bram. you just said something about how twdd used to be any ships u wanted, and how 5wbs were obviously the dominant ships, it was so obviously dominant that now you dont even have the option to play other ships....
so wouldnt that mean that 5 spiders, 1 terr, 2 sharks, is the dominant line?

thanks again bram

[Efhat]

wow you picked me apart so good there vehicle....anyways...

ive already talked about the possible uses with a 2nd terr to my squaddies

what ive heard about this 2 terr idea is "its like playing a man down"

there was an uproar over removing the 2 blocks, but it worked out for the better didnt it?

btw 2 terrs was tested in base for 2 weeks? i think it was that..and people are still saying its pointless.



and back to you, bram. you just said something about how twdd used to be any ships u wanted, and how 5wbs were obviously the dominant ships, it was so obviously dominant that now you dont even have the option to play other ships....
so wouldnt that mean that 5 spiders, 1 terr, 2 sharks, is the dominant line?

thanks again bram

gg bram


why turn twl into a joke? it's been working out the past seasons with the 5 spiders, and clearly when a special is used it's a blowout
like dwop and others said, arent we trying to avoid these "joke" changes (2 terrs/javs/wb's) so it wont result into a blowout? last time i remember leagues mean competitiveness, not pub 0 when Robobot says go
even if you arent forced to use it, you know some dumbasses are going to use it which will result into a blowout (ex:bram) 2 seasons ago I remember that whole bullshit in Syndicate vs dicE and Diso when they were playing such "joke" lines and it resulted in a 15-1 or 15-0, yea it was boring...
twl is made for good, competitive matches, look how TWLB playoffs were last season, why try and implement something so dumb, and if it isnt going to be used, then why even add it?
and! TERR IS the mainship in the basing scene, and its the MAIN objective to be killed in the game, why are you going to add another main ship into the scene? it ruins the whole point of basing tbh, i dont see the importance of having 2 terrs in a game so why even put implement it (even if you dont half to play it)

Sirius: I really dont see what logic you are putting into this whole 'basing hysteria' you are implementing your opinion I respect that, but your knowledge of basing is probably -500, so seriously, if you're going to implement something about a league you've probably never played, seriously, stfu. You make no sense, you dont realize what 2 terrs does (like i just said up top) you dont know the whole point in basing, and you clearly dont know what your talking about, so seriously, why are you going to say something about a league you've never played? there isnt 'no common sense' in your posts, all you've been doing is implying nonsense, plz, stfu.

[Capital Knockers]

gg bram


why turn twl into a joke? it's been working out the past seasons with the 5 spiders, and clearly when a special is used it's a blowout
like dwop and others said, arent we trying to avoid these "joke" changes (2 terrs/javs/wb's) so it wont result into a blowout? last time i remember leagues mean competitiveness, not pub 0 when Robobot says go
even if you arent forced to use it, you know some dumbasses are going to use it which will result into a blowout (ex:bram) 2 seasons ago I remember that whole bullshit in Syndicate vs dicE and Diso when they were playing such "joke" lines and it resulted in a 15-1 or 15-0, yea it was boring...
twl is made for good, competitive matches, look how TWLB playoffs were last season, why try and implement something so dumb, and if it isnt going to be used, then why even add it?
and! TERR IS the mainship in the basing scene, and its the MAIN objective to be killed in the game, why are you going to add another main ship into the scene? it ruins the whole point of basing tbh, i dont see the importance of having 2 terrs in a game so why even put implement it (even if you dont half to play it)

bram can you just tell them you won't let Disoblige play two terr so they stop screaming like kids who've been told Christmas has been cancelled.

but then do it anyways just to piss them off come TWL! :P

[Efhat]

bram can you just tell them you won't let Disoblige play two terr so they stop screaming like kids who've been told Christmas has been cancelled.

but then do it anyways just to piss them off come TWL! :P

and then theres another blowout (15-0) because of that joke line, when there are squads that arent chosen to play TWL and they couldve atleast played a serious line and taking leagues seriously, instead of Diso wasting a spot in the LB ladder to play with that bullshit, huh?

[Capital Knockers]

and then theres another blowout (15-0) because of that joke line, when there are squads that arent chosen to play TWL and they couldve atleast played a serious line and taking leagues seriously, instead of Diso wasting a spot in the LB ladder to play with that bullshit, huh?

Disoblige is a better, and more entertaining squad than most of the ones that have ever played the game. Jesus man, people don't watch TWL just to admire 2d spaceship game skills - they want to be amused. Disoblige is a fucking survivor man, they've made us laugh time and time again. So what if they decide to blow a single game trying something new - at least the have the balls to try. Talk to me again when yours drop.

[Doc Flabby]

Hmm just been playing some poker and had a wild though we could try in TWD or TWL next season.

Run two basing leagues.

-limit basing (standard terra/spider/shark limited etc)
-no-limit basing

Flame away.

[Vehicle]

Because two terrs will definately result in 15-0 blowouts? I'm glad we've decided that before anyone's actually done it.

I watched a bd yesterday, I don't remember who was playing unfortunately and I don't feel like sorting through the TWD site to find out, that had a 2 terr team. And, while the 2 terr team did eventually lose, the game was pretty close and didn't become lopsided until the 2 terr team switched one of their terrs.

It's just one example, but what I'm getting at is you're being mighty prophetic by saying that a 2 terr vs 1 terr game would result in a blowout when no one knows that for sure.

[Dabram]

yes efhat we lost all our games last season with 15:0. we surely didn't beat the league's runner's up while playing 'pallies-style' (with a wb+jav) purely because we knew they'd have no answer to it.


i'm gonna leave this discussion now; dwopple and efhat, you're both too dumb, new and mostly boring to be worth more of my time. enjoy.