Fix TWL

[Ephemeral]

lol? adding a money aspect to TWL would result in squads being more stacked which is against the entire premise of this thread.

Only if you assume that the number of players in TWL will decline (in which case none of this matters much). It could also be assumed that the number of players will increase (due to the chance to win money playing the game, increased quality of league due to hosts and management caring more). If that happened, the number of competitive team would increase. Would inactive elite players come back if they had a chance to make some cash? If not, what do you suggest?

By the way, I don’t care if this solution is done or not. I was listing all the possible ways that players might be able to ‘give back’ to the zone. Since we now understand (after failed Steam attempt) that nothing is really going to result in increased new population, figuring out ways to help the zone stay active is critical. If anyone else has suggestions on ways to ‘give back’ to the zone or other solutions they think would save the league or zone, please feel free to jump in.
Eph

[field]

you paying for staffs next summer vacation?

Eph pay for my round trip to Jalalabad so I can punch heaven in the face n come back here.

[Heaven]

Sorry for the double post, can’t seem to edit the one above….

There are only a few ways to ‘give back’ the this zone.
[LIST=1][*]You can donate money. Many feel this is not a great way to ‘give back’. First, there were rumors, justified or not, that previously some money was misappropriated. Additionally, how the donated money is to be used has always been an issue of contention.

you paying for staffs next summer vacation?

[forwards]

I'm not gonna read any of that Eph but I'm going to take it as a sign you're getting better and this pleases me.

[Rough]

lol? adding a money aspect to TWL would result in squads being more stacked which is against the entire premise of this thread.

Nah scumbag MM_God will pocket all the money like he has been doing lol.

[Crescent Seal]

lol? adding a money aspect to TWL would result in squads being more stacked which is against the entire premise of this thread.

[Ephemeral]

Sorry for the double post, can’t seem to edit the one above….

There are only a few ways to ‘give back’ the this zone.

1. You can donate money. Many feel this is not a great way to ‘give back’. First, there were rumors, justified or not, that previously some money was misappropriated. Additionally, how the donated money is to be used has always been an issue of contention.
2. You can join zone staff or league staff. This is ok as long as you do not burn out. Good luck with that. Very few people have managed to not burn out after joining staff. Some of this is natural, turning something that is fun into a job is almost always a good way to ruin the intrinsic value of something.
3. You can log in and be as active as you can. This does not mean sitting in spec, it does not mean only playing in a league once a year. It means actively playing in Pub, elim, events, etc. throughout the year.

But there is an additional way not listed above, move TWL to a paid service.

TWL moves to a squad structure in which each squad of 25 players participate in all three leagues (TWLB, TWLD, TWLJ). There is no qualification period but there is a $125 per squad entry fee. This fee is covered by each player on the squad paying $5 each. (Five bucks isn’t much, if players don’t want to pay to play TWL then they can always go play Pub which is free.) I suppose if a captain felt like it and wanted a top tier player, they could cover the cost themselves to entice the elite player to join and perform. Perhaps 1-2 captains might even cover the entire $125 themselves if they wanted to try to “buy” some icon rings. LOL

The money collected goes to pay the hosts and league management. Hosts no longer just type a few commands and just log the game. Instead, they are held responsible for the games they host. In other words, they make real-time game calls and decisions. If some game abnormality occurs, the host resolves the issue with a immediate judgment during or after the game. Assuming that there are 8 squads, the league would collect $1000 per season. $500 would go to pay the hosts, $250 would go to pay those who mange the league. The remaining $250 would go to either the winning squads or split between the top performing players.

People would then care about applying for hosting positions and running the league, it would reduce staff burnout and improve the efforts that are needed to run the league. If playing in TWL is not worth paying just $5 for each player, then it is hard to argue that TWL means much to that player. (The argument then turns into, “I don’t want to pay a few dollars, but I want everything to go my way for free.”) TWL would probably get renewed with this approach, becoming more active and more competitive as each stakeholder (league hosts, league management, players) then feels more invested in it.

[Ephemeral]

When I look at the people who have posted in this thread, I see very few who have played any Pub in years. Pub is the food for keeping the leagues healthy.

I play a lot of Pub, but not because it is fun. I mostly played Pub because it was good for the zone. I looked at it kind of like the cost for playing and a way to give back to the zone. If player wasn’t contributing by being on staff, or donating money to the zone; then I always felt playing Pub was the next best thing. But I understand why more players don’t contribute by playing Pub; unfortunately dumbass decisions by staffers make donating time to Pub just about meaningless. (Like holding events when Pub is struggling just to stay alive with 9-10 players.)

Yes, stacking of TWLB squad is (and has been) a real problem. Having the guy who leads our zone, after giving a interview in which he blows a lot of smoke up everyone’s ass about what is best for the zone, jump from a struggling squad to a stacked one at the start of TWL Season 20 was incredibly demoralizing. This action epitomized the selfish kind of thinking that has always plagued this zone.

There is no ‘fixing’ TWL unless the zone management is also fixed. For the first time in 17 years I am very close to not playing the zone anymore at all. Who wants to contribute to the zone at this point? Look at how many good people have been burned out trying to help this zone and TWL. Of course contributing to a community full of selfish people is not something that many smart people would want to waste their time on. But it has been up to the zone leadership to address issue this over the years and obviously they have completely failed. This failure was not due to ‘not knowing’; there were plenty of people pointing out that there were few incentives for anyone (players or staff) to ‘do the right thing’. Hell, for years the entire staff structure was setup in a way that was completely counterproductive to the health of the zone. IMO the zone often ‘rewarded’ the wrong kinds of behavior. If this is true, who is to blame for the selfish thinking of many players?

TWL follows the zone. As the quality of the zone has contracted, so has the quality of the leagues. The solution for squeezing out some more years from the zone is for both staffers and players to reinvest in contributing to the zone in one way or another. (Obviously we have to rely the support of players who have previously enjoyed the zone along with nurturing a small group of new players.) Zone leadership and players need to be selfless and make all decisions in the context of what is best for the zone, not what is ‘most fun’ for them alone. But given the actions of most existing players and staff, this doesn’t seem likely at this point. This is most evident in TWLB now, TWLD and TWLJ probably have a few more years left in them since they can be done with fewer players.

It is like TW is a local community park with basketball courts, baseball fields, soccer fields, and nice walking trails. TWL is a annual league held in this community park. Is the expectation that it is fine for TWL players to show up once a year but never ‘giving back’ to support the running of the park? On the other hand if the park is being mismanaged and has fallen into disrepair, why would anyone want to contribute their time to it? Fix the management, support the right kind of behaviors, and TWL might be able to hang in there a few more years. Continue on the current path, and TW becomes just like the HZ zone. (Zone almost completely inactive with periodic leagues in which highly skilled players fuck with each other.)
Eph

[forwards]

And no amount of roster caps, twl drafts, or any other bs is going to make certain people squad with certain people. The chat is probably more important than the game to most people.

nailed it

[Ravos]

agreed 100%, give medals only for those who actually plays in play-offs.

Not necesarily play offs. I think regular season included too.
But imo they should have played 25% or 30% of all twl games.

And if they only play in LB games, then only LB medal

[Healt]

I say,
remove the medal for the speccers.
Give only those a medal who played a fair amount of games.

agreed 100%, give medals only for those who actually plays in play-offs.

[Ravos]

I say,
remove the medal for the speccers.
Give only those a medal who played a fair amount of games.

[Ivf]

There's no incentive in winning. I remember back in the day I would arrange my Sunday around TWL. It just doesn't appeal to me anymore. That desire I had to win just isn't there no more.
It's the same squads and the same people winning it year after year: its either between the dice players and Pandora players in basing. Dice players and thunder players in jav and fierce players and thunder players in warbird.
You guys might as well scrap the buildup up to the final and save peoples time and just play the final from the players from those squads I listed above in the final.
People are deluded and think having a title justifies their skill and makes them an elite. I look back and I always tried to prove myself by joining the under dog squad. Never really joining the favourite squad in order to get it. Helping dice get to twld finals (even though we lost) was more of achievement by knocking out favourites on the way to the final than actually winning it. Although it would of been nice to win.
Staff just need to do it like twdt and put a star limit on roster a roster. But players can leave and join squads when they want "obviously caps keeping to star agreement". This is during twd I'm talking about. Then during twl this applied up until game 4

[kthx]

And no amount of roster caps, twl drafts, or any other bs is going to make certain people squad with certain people. The chat is probably more important than the game to most people.

[kthx]

Let me explain how this works.

Quicksand and Sweet or United Force used to go have 1v1 duels after dd matches because someone said someone was a mullet wearing faggot or something. And over the years certain people just quit the game, so after like five years my chat is dead, and his chat is dead, and im like yo remember five years ago when I would call you a mullet wearing faggot, and he would be like lol yeah, that shit was hilarious. And then you join squads with each other. The problem is, our new players are so fucking retarded that we would rather be on a squad with people that we used to talk shit to 24/7 because at least you know they aren't annoying as fuck or stupid.