An Analytical view of the Cram, and worthy Solutions.

[Sleepy Weasel]

Originally posted by Pearl Jam
Beating the cram really isn't all that difficult. I don't see what the big deal is. All it takes is a couple of sharks or a jav with decent timing and BLAM-BLIZZY-BLIZZAM - the cram is no more.

The two people that said this incidently didn't show up to the playoff games.

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by CrvenBan
What Pyro, got something to say ? You know how you fare vs me in any game, so that's a lol alone. Or were just just pissed off cuz of this last ?go base game ? Heheh gg.

I'm done with these discussions.

The only way you're going to get any changes to happen is if you discuss the issues you have. Don't expect next season to get better and don't complain if you're not willing to help out.

[ÆNIMA]

What did I say? Forget your emotions and personal feelings. This is not a whine and shine post, it's intended to have a thorough discussion about the basing game.


Can I hear from a staff member that some changes regarding the levi and cloaker will be made in ?go base for testing?

If no, I'd like to hear reasons.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

i've been bitching to get the mini-weasel added to ?go base ever since it was first introduced to pub.

MAKE WITH THE MIDGET WEASELS ALREADY! I HAVE TERRIERS TO DESTROY!

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by sTuPiD-gErBiL
i've been bitching to get the mini-weasel added to ?go base ever since it was first introduced to pub.

MAKE WITH THE MIDGET WEASELS ALREADY! I HAVE TERRIERS TO DESTROY!

I agree gerbs ... miniweasels need to rise up!

Old weasels simple can't be played in basing ... but the pub weasels can ... simple as that.

[Mayo Inc.]

Originally posted by Sleepy Weasel
The two people that said this incidently didn't show up to the playoff games.

who else wasn't there?

[Windreaper]

Sigh, I wish this had stayed on topic.

In any case, as stated before, I believe cramming is so powerful because no1 knows a sure-fire way to beat it at the moment. I've played against Spastic cram (and lost :P) but I'd still wait until next season before any changes to the map are made.

In my personal experience, cram is best beaten by applying constant pressure against the cramming team through both reps and firepower. What I see done wrong is that spids often camp too far away from entrance to use the about 2second gap (already mentioned by Dabram) that they have when nmy shark screws up.

I dare to guess that up to this date no team has made up any special plans or tactics to counter cram (maybe because it seems to simple?). I'm pretty sure that top teams will come up with one before next season. My best bet would be using sharks and spids to put pressure on cram and have jav do that actual damage.

To do this you need to drive the cramming spids/sharks against the back wall and preferably in the corners (the cram can be thus 'split' if the timing is correct). At this point nmy sharks are usually powerless to stop well timed jav bombs from finding their mark (especially considering the fact that last second reps rarely stop rocket javbombs due to lag the involved).

The problem with this strategy is that I haven't seen it done right thus far. As mentioned before, the most common problem is people hanging too low without causing any pressure. This means that nmy spids can just dodge out of the way even if both the sharks die. OTOH when properly pinned they got no room to move and are thus slaughtered when left without shark protection. I'd advice sharks to thrust towards entrance while repping with spids following right behind them. When out of reps sharks should just act as bullet sponges to get back asap. This is of course rather risky - if either of the sharks (yup, they shouldn't go in at once but rather one at a time to have a constant supply of reps available) dies too early it could result in a wipeout.

If the attacking sharks manage to push the cram against the back wall and in the corners the spids can actually do some damage since there is usually about 2sec gap when they're unprotected. Nmy sharks will of course try to rep them away but sinec they're now repping diagonally (because the terr they attach from has been driven away from the entrance) they will be unable to push the opposing team away since they too are now backed by a wall. This is also the point where jav strikes should be made. Timing is crucial here, again, since repped javbombs will do some nasty damage to friendly team if repped after they bounce (and happen to hit a wall).

To summarize the previous paragraphs (ok you may quote this *laughs*): "In my opinion the key to breaking a cram is to apply pressure against the cram taking away their mobility and follow up with either concentrated spider fire or jav strikes". Again, this is just my 2€ combined with personal experience but it's also the way I've had most results with (actually, we managed a 1 shark cram break against Paladen w/ A-S last weekend, dunno if it counts tho).

Cheers.
-Wind

[RabbitRapist]

i say allow any number of any ships with unlimited changes/switches.

-RR

[BLeeN]

Yeah Wind, I had the same idea about it.
But it wasn't combined with 2 sharks at once. Imho it's still possible with 1 shark repping and going up, with the second following behind him + all the spiders.

[Windreaper]

I suppose I didn't make my point clearly enough but that's just how it's supposed to play. Other shark should follow behind the first one to act as backup in case the lead shark prematurely dies (ie. doesn't get to use all the reps, happens to me often nowadays with my lag :/) and to continue pushing with the spids once lead shark spends all his reps. After the initial push sharks should just take turns repping and take hits for spids once out (as mentioned before). I hope this cleared out things a bit.

[BLeeN]

Yeah, same idea allover =P

[ÆNIMA]

Originally posted by Windreaper

I dare to guess that up to this date no team has made up any special plans or tactics to counter cram (maybe because it seems to simple?). I'm pretty sure that top teams will come up with one before next season. My best bet would be using sharks and spids to put pressure on cram and have jav do that actual damage.

I believe that's what the original post of this topic was intended to be. Utilizing two ships that have never been tried in their current pub-state is a tactic to counter a cram.

Although what you suggest is that no changes are needed, and no one needs to complain, I would still like to see all 8 ships allowed on a team.

[SuperMet]

Although what you suggest is that no changes are needed, and no one needs to complain, I would still like to see all 8 ships allowed on a team.

Spastic has kept Da Farmer! on our roster for the entire season even though he hasn't played any match, TWD or TWL. We are saving Farmer for just this moment when levis are allowed to base.

Imagine seeing "muahahahahahahaha Da OLD FARMER STILL HAS IT!!!!" during a basing match.

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by ÆNIMA
I believe that's what the original post of this topic was intended to be. Utilizing two ships that have never been tried in their current pub-state is a tactic to counter a cram.

Although what you suggest is that no changes are needed, and no one needs to complain, I would still like to see all 8 ships allowed on a team.

I think someone said in an earlier post that they have tried true 8v8 using every ship ... and they said it sucked.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by Sufficient
I think someone said in an earlier post that they have tried true 8v8 using every ship ... and they said it sucked.

i think enema meant to have access to all 8 ships... not being forced to use all 8 ships.