Thunder vs Terrorist TWDTB Semi-Finals Round 2 Appeal

[Dreamwin]

This isn't true. skyforger knew about it, nobody else did, including Mythril, Stead, me, and whoever else was online at the time. Presumably rodney wasn't online and he doesn't realise things still happen when he's not there.

Oh my bad, I got the wrong idea of this.

2nd I was the one in Legio chat that questioned it. We subbed out Steadman for Rab. A few minutes later I told Rab he was being dumb. Rab trolled back at me, so my retaliation was to say "fuck it, sub Steadman back in and get Rab out of here." Mythril then said "can't sub a player back in after they've been subbed out."

[Rab]

Rodney clarified this later. Mythril was aware as a long-term captain and player. No one else was asked.

This isn't true. skyforger knew about it, nobody else did, including Mythril, Stead, me, and whoever else was online at the time. Presumably rodney wasn't online and he doesn't realise things still happen when he's not there.

[Dreamwin]

nevertheless to not stray from the topic, and perhaps take a more legalistic approach on the matter, one solid counterargument for Terrorist would be the fact that there are no rules which cover cases such as this one for TWDT"

Rules doesn't matter, common sense doesn't matter, only thing that matters is the ones who are gaining the benefit. We all know it.

I have never won an appeal in my life. Whenever I've appealed, even though it is legitimately stated in rules I've lost. Everytime anyone has appealed against me, i've lost without doing anything wrong myself. For example this one https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...-raid-vs-cobra

It's hard to argue something with limited time and in your second language while the other side are native speakers with 24 hours of a day dedicated to SS.

Dreamwin, even Legio's chat was unaware of this bug, a team who prefers to play you over us. Do you really think I'd let that bug stand if I was aware of it? I went out of my way to fix the bot when you were avoiding the deathtimer by shipchanging repeatedly with macros in TWDT. I have a clear and proven history of trying to get errors fixed and changes made to TWDT bots.

I was not aware of this bug in TWDT.

Rodney clarified this later. Mythril was aware as a long-term captain and player. No one else was asked.

I never macroed anything, I just made shipchanges like any other player. You got in trouble because I got few TeKs with warbird while you were terring so you got irritated and got it fixed so I couldn't use it anymore.

As I said, it's a blatant lie from you that you didn't know about this. You could name every loophole, botcommand, false spot in basing when someone woke you up at 5am. I dont buy it for one second. Karma is a bitch, dude.

Dice got a full replay in S18 after Pandora was up 14-13 holding cram, with Dicers in disarray in spawn, with no chance of getting back up, breaking cram, and getting to the flag. I've voted as TWDT Op to fully replay a game which I was up 9-0 due to bot problems. Bot errors are valid appeals. All those games were replayed from 0-0.

Guess you didnt remember but I was Pandora back then so I was once again on the losing side of situation like this.

Instead, you were given a free round and momentum. The bot error was a complete game-changer, and I think most objective observers would agree.

"Free win". You are the ones who got a freeroll to advancing finals. Can we also play the first replay game without 1 impactful player and see if we could snatch a win?

Every replay in history has started 0-0.

Every appeal similar to in history would have been denied.

You also might want to check your "legitimate" history timeline of subbing players out and back in. (In TWL)

https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...ubbing-back-in
I just noticed this, but is this because we are too lazy to fix the bots or is it because there is an actual rule against this?

Fri 5th Apr
2013 - By: Humid

A bug with how the TWLBot interacts with the TWL site database has recently been
brought to our attention. As of now, and through the remainder of the season;
players that are subbed out will no longer be allowed to be subbed back into a
match as it causes an error.

Show me one scorebox of a TWL/TWDT match where a player has been subbed out and back in. It has never happened in the history of the game. It has never been working. You know this.

Btw, no one has still not explained why MC wasnt subbed first round in similar situation if u "knew" u could sub him back in.

Lastly, I assume the most ridiculous replay match of all time will be played with the exact same lineups. We are not able to field that at 4:15pm EST as you have announced in schedule thread. Start it at 5pm EST like the basing games usually start and there is 50/50 we will actually not protest it by not showing, mostly depending if my team wants to play or not. At 4:15pm we are 100% not able to field same lineup as last week.

[Paky Dude]

Have we checked weather forecast for this game?

I don't know but hopefully JAMAL isn't in a tornado again. Might have to play another replay or postpone the match if that's the case. :laugh:

[Falconeer]

Have we checked weather forecast for this game?

Snowflake with a chance of rain... quick ?ignore whose pixels you can't handle for the quick safe space!

Rab walks you through it: https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...e-on-the-forum

[Vys]

Have we checked weather forecast for this game?

[Falconeer]

One thing is for sure the "bug" should be fixed since no one is giving a valid reason why not subbing someone you subbed out should be a thing.

Qan actually implied it's not a bug and might be intended that way in his wording, but he didn't elaborate on why he didn't outright call it a bug.

Either due to design decisions or a bug

basically it's ambiguous enough that he can't tell if it's a bug, but he still called it that..

That being said I find it funny claushouse said he doesn't lie.

I also find this funny

but those are all Dice players + Thix/Commodo -- all people who absolutely loathe us.

Thinking people are against the appeal because of a personal vendetta... despite many good points against it rofl. In this thread alone you convinced me to be 50/50 with the appeal by just stating you won round one with JAMAL. I still think a 50/50 call should be called in favour of no appeal, but before I was 100% against it. So i'm happy with myself for being unaffected by your trolling. And for the record I always labelled myself as a truth troll. You definitely make shit up when you troll though =)

I also found Rodneys post funny.

1st off, dont give a fk who we face, take your ego down a peg with your elitist mindset.

Guy ignores me for fighting elitism as represented on forums by ogron and rab, and then he lashes out at elitists who he refuses to ?ignore. ROFL.

Comedy gold for me.

[ogron]

It has nothing to do with gratitude. It has everything to do with a matchbot bug ruining a round, and costing us our best shark and best spider for a round.

A team tried to pawn off their Finals spot in TWDT-D last season to us after they beat us, and I emphatically said no. Steadman slept in and ruined our season. We were the better team. As I said then, it doesn't matter. We lost fair and square, and I had zero interest in playing in the Finals.

There was zero grounds for an appeal.

I would have loved to win my first TWDT-D Final as a starter. I've already won TWDT-B 3x, 4 doesn't change much.

It's the principle. We were cheated out of Round 2 by a bug that was introduced in 2017. There is clear grounds for an appeal. JAMAL was available to play and should have been in.

It was a garbage joke round, and it should be replayed.

[Paky Dude]

Why wouldn't a replay of Round 2 start 0-0?

Every replay in history has started 0-0.

We're throwing out a round due to a bot error, which means only Rounds 1 and 3 were valid.

We won by 6 minutes R1, and lost by 3:30 R3. We're up +2:30 minutes in valid rounds.

R2 has been thrown out due to a bot bug. Even if you counted R2 and totaled the minutes (which you shouldn't), the difference is 2:30 across the entire match for Terrorist, not 3:33.


Precedent:

M_M God (Sysop) during TWLB S18 Finals considered replaying the round with Pandora up several minutes to reflect the score when the bot died, and Dice players refused to play.

After discussing with staff, he stayed consistent with previous replays and started the replayed round 0-0.

Every replay I'm aware of in this game has been from 0-0.

People are always ungrateful huh; the appeal should've never been granted in the first place. Take the condition as it is and be happy. The round was valid up until the point of this stupid bot error that no one knew existed in TWDT. At which point Terrorist was up by a few minutes anyways in round 2. Weather, computer malfunctions, distractions are all part of the game and now those variables will be different for this stupid replay. Seriously, I'm perplexed about this whole situation.

[ogron]

[Efhat]

1st off, dont give a fk who we face, take your ego down a peg with your elitist mindset.

2nd I was the one in Legio chat that questioned it. We subbed out Steadman for Rab. A few minutes later I told Rab he was being dumb. Rab trolled back at me, so my retaliation was to say "fuck it, sub Steadman back in and get Rab out of here." Mythril then said "can't sub a player back in after they've been subbed out."

I have never been a cap of a league squad, don't ever care to be either. I had no idea a sub could not be subbed back in I never have to deal with that shit. Mythril a CAPTAIN, an EXPERIENCED CAPTAIN much like yours (Ease) knew the capabilities of the sub mechanism and answered immediately with his response. We still won the game but if we had lost we wouldn't have cried for an appeal on behalf of not being able to RE SUB someone.

You're lucky you got this appeal at all, shut up while your ahead and play your fucking game.

This will go down as probably one of the most, if not the most ridiculous and unfair grants in the history of the game.

This is why there are substitutes, this is why basing squads have always had a more player depth in roster limits, in the matter an issue like this occurred. Thunder had plenty of players that could have sharked and stepped up.

I'd understand if this was considered more in a TWJD/TWDD because of a 5 man team.

But this is completely different.

Their main argument was that they beat us with jamal in the first round, but we beat them in the third. WITH A PLAYER OF OURS LAGGING OUT IN THE LAST MINUTE OR TWO OF THE GAME.

It's an outrageous grant.

I'm sorry this happened to you DW.

If PH was around, or any other league op that ran leagues prior to this snowflake era, it would not have been granted. This wouldn't of even lasted 24 hours before getting denied.

God forbid this was the other way around.

[RoDNeY]

Dreamwin, even Legio's chat was unaware of this bug, a team who prefers to play you over us.

1st off, dont give a fk who we face, take your ego down a peg with your elitist mindset.

2nd I was the one in Legio chat that questioned it. We subbed out Steadman for Rab. A few minutes later I told Rab he was being dumb. Rab trolled back at me, so my retaliation was to say "fuck it, sub Steadman back in and get Rab out of here." Mythril then said "can't sub a player back in after they've been subbed out."

I have never been a cap of a league squad, don't ever care to be either. I had no idea a sub could not be subbed back in I never have to deal with that shit. Mythril a CAPTAIN, an EXPERIENCED CAPTAIN much like yours (Ease) knew the capabilities of the sub mechanism and answered immediately with his response. We still won the game but if we had lost we wouldn't have cried for an appeal on behalf of not being able to RE SUB someone.

You're lucky you got this appeal at all, shut up while your ahead and play your fucking game.

[Flew]

Should replay this with Anonym in at start of game and Ease in shark at start of game and make him do the Jamal sub and the Ease ship change to spider, so we can say that rnd 2 is played correctly as it should be.. assuming the bot is the problem and not the storm.

[ogron]

Terrorist will be granted 3:33 (the margin of victory in round 3) at the beginning of the round. Terrorist will need 11:27 to win the game, and Thunder will need 15:00. The decisive match will be replayed immediately after the TWDT-J Finals have ended.

Why wouldn't a replay of Round 2 start 0-0?

Every replay in history has started 0-0.

We're throwing out a round due to a bot error, which means only Rounds 1 and 3 were valid.

We won by 6 minutes R1, and lost by 3:30 R3. We're up +2:30 minutes in valid rounds.

R2 has been thrown out due to a bot bug. Even if you counted R2 and totaled the minutes (which you shouldn't), the difference is 2:30 across the entire match for Terrorist, not 3:33.


Precedent:

M_M God (Sysop) during TWLB S18 Finals considered replaying the round with Pandora up several minutes to reflect the score when the bot died, and Dice players refused to play.

After discussing with staff, he stayed consistent with previous replays and started the replayed round 0-0.

Every replay I'm aware of in this game has been from 0-0.

[ogron]

I guess megaman89, Zizzo, Commodo, voth, thix, Stayon, Kess, Everest, and whoever else have put their input or have replied to me have lied to me and I have been delusional about this the last 18 years I have been playing

Yes, that appears to be the case, based on Qan's research.

Cripp, I love you, and respect you immensely, but those are all Dice players + Thix/Commodo -- all people who absolutely loathe us. You can see from Rab's post that everyone on Legio had the same feeling as us -- they believed re-subs work in leagues, and were surprised when that error occurred. Logs confirm Ease tried to sub JAMAL back in at the start of the game.

We lost our best shark and best spider for Round 2 due to a recently re-introduced bug.