Abortion: Good or Bad?

[Troll King]

Then please, don't give us some of your own.

[Gemfire]

I think that aboriton should be gotten rid of...unless as others have said...youre still a kid (im talking like 15, you arent emotionally ready to be a parent yet) and like..got raped...if it was with another 15-17 year old...and was consentual...you have a lot of growing up to do, and fast...plus if you dont want the kid...just think of how many women out there that are barren and cant conceive a child...youd make that womans life....worth something to herself by actually being able to have one of her own...and telcat...as far as your emotional stress of being a single mom...Yes its stressfull...but it made my mom (single mother of 3 =p) what she is today (a hard worker, and she dont take shit from anyone =p)

edit: If its impossible to get rid of abortion (hope its not -_-) at least get rid of the kind where the doctors kill the "fetus" during birth when only its head is out of the womb...Infants are not given rights untill their whole body is out of the mother...hence....even if its out except for its legs....and you kill it....its still considered abortion and not murder...which is just fucking wrong.

[Facetious]

and telcat...as far as your emotional stress of being a single mom...Yes its stressfull...but it made my mom (single mother of 3 =p) what she is today (a hard worker, and she dont take shit from anyone =p)

I would hope that if your mom is a single mother of three, she didn't have three accidental children. The point is, I think that unwanted children end up fucked up in the head. I have nothing against single mothers, and nothing against young mothers, but I don't think children should have to be brought up unwanted if the obstacle is a first trimester abortion.

[Harumi <ER>]

Those pictures are more than disturbing. I was given an instant and unforgettable education. The "quarter" comparisons really made me start thinking.

Also, as far as the social consequences go about children being raised as unwanted - well, the amazing thing about humans is that we can rise above the limitations others set on us. Not everyone will. I can't speak from personal experience, but I've watched people overcome those situations and they're glad to be alive.

[Mobey]

good.
babies dont know whats commin at them.

[Kim]

I still wouldn't agree that aborting a fetus at the first trimester would differ from the 2nd and the 3rd, I think its what people use as an aliby to get through and over themselves that the baby hasn't REALLY developed individualism. I guess it only counts to them when the baby starts rolling and kicking. Nonetheless, I do agree that a large portion of unwanted babies whom are delivered do reside in dysfunctional families where parents are negligent of keeping them under their name. Putting the kid up for adoption is probably the best option there, so the kid can be adopted into a family where the parents can either not have a child themselves, or wish to welcome a newcomer that desperately needs a home. I guess all we can do is give mad props to the parents who take full responsibility for the kid, even if it was accidental. I mean seriously, if the accident happened, you have 9 months to get over that fact and settle in. If the situation was rape, it would take one independent woman with a lot of determination and guts to keep the child for themselves.

[stark]

There are also other options, like if you knowingly have unprotected sex or a condom breaks, you can take the morning after pill (which they may turn into an over-the-counter drug... which i think would be a bad thing). Some people may be scared to go there, but it's a hellofalot easier to swallow your pride or whatever then, then have to get an abortion or have a child when you're not ready. I, personally, don't really have an option on it. I think if i got someone pregnant and wasn't ready to accept the responsibilty of a child, i would probably have it aborted. I would never be able to put a child up for adoption, because he would grow up without knowing who his real parents are, and i would never know who he was and what he was doing, and it'd be hard to throw something away that you gave life to, even if i wasn't ready for it (although some may say an abortion is just that.. throwing away something you gave life to).

[Facetious]

A lot of people consider the morning-after pill just as immoral as an abortion, though. The problem is drawing the line as to where, exactly, a human life starts. People that are responsible would probably use the morning-after pill if something bad happened, for the most part, but a lot of people would think "well, the chances are low" and just forget about it. It's exactly those people that would make shitty parents.

[Gemfire]

The morning after pill...doesnt always work :x My moms Best friend'd sister....took one after a condom broke on her...thought nothing of it...and 2-3 (im not sure...could be 5...forgot what my mom told me :x) months later she went into the hospital thinking she had cancer, because er stomach was getting hard....turns out shes pregnant...and has gotten stoned off of cocaine and got drunk about 12 times in that time period...never knew :/ (she never gets her period either...or so im told o.o)

[Sarien]

Gotta love psychological warfare.
Pictures of dead babies.
That's no different than Normans cutting the heads off people and catapulting them into towns they were sieging, in order to force a surrender.
Don't care if the pictures are faked or not, really. The melodrama and manipulation of "Dear Mommy, I am in Heaven now, sitting on Jesus' lap." made me want to go offer free rides to the nearest abortion clinic for people.

It's one thing to believe in a viewpoint. It's another entirely to attempt emotional blackmail to coerce people to your side.

[Epinephrine]

It's funny how in many cases the same people who support captial punishment are also against abortion. Strange isn't it?

Personally I think abortion should be a valid option. In cases of rape, incest, and where the mother's life is in danger I don't think there should be any doubt. In cases where the mother really doesn't want the child, it is much harder to justify, but still wholly possible.

Is abortion killing a child? Before the second trimester it can be argued that because the fetus is still extremely small, looks nothing like a human and does not have a developed central nervous system it is in fact not really human at all. It is physiologically completely dependent on the mother, and if taken out of the mother could never survive (unlike later term babies which can be born premature). So in effect, this is an extension of the body of the mother, and cannot exist independently of it. So does it have rights over the mother?

There are two main lines of arguement to this. The first is that mothers who really don't want the child perhaps shouldn't be parents. They would probably be really bad parents just because of that. Furthermore in some cases, the woman wouldn't be able to financially support the child. The mother may have to quit school, or quit her job or lose many life opportunites because of the pregnancy and thus this would really end up screwing up two lives. If the mother was a teenager in a strict family, or was in certain types of situations, she may even lose a lot of social status, and could be shunned by her friends and family. The psychological trauma of being a teenager and pregnant is only really known by teenage mothers who walk around their high schools pregnant.

Okay, so you say how about those moms who won't be really psychologically or financially strapped if they had a child. People who could cope, but really just didn't want a kid? Getting a child might ruin their lives as it is, and in some respects I think the rights of those alive are more important than the lives of a bunch of cells which has no brain or consciousness.

The second arguement in my opinion is even more powerful. Even if you believe the fetus is alive, and even if you believe people should just 'deal with it', there's the entire issue of rights.

Simply put, men have the option of being deadbeat dads, moms do not. If a man gets a woman pregnant, they can easily run away. Furthermore, because the usage of a condom is basically under the control of the man, the woman in many cases has little to no choice to get pregnant while the man does not. Not all sex is consentual, and in many cases the man might force it on the woman and force them to 'consent'.

So the idea is, by allowing women to have abortions, you are giving more power and more rights to women. No longer can men impose on women this most important fact of life and just run away or at least use it in a form of control (i.e. "see you are pregnant now we have to marry"). Giving women back the power to control their lives is essential to allowing both sexes to have an equal amount of power in our society. This evens out the fact that men can opt out of almost all of the problems of getting pregnant, while women cannot.

In the end it is up to perception on your personal beliefs. If you believe that a fetus is a child, then you believe it's murder no questions asked. If you believe it's not murder then you probably believe abortions are okay. Regardless of what you believe though, in a free society where individual rights are firmly enshrined into the constitution, you cannot legislate a law that fundamentally challenges the rights of one half of the population and at the same time greatly increases the power of the other half over that half.

-Epi

[arrogance]

Lots of kids grow up in dysfunctional or neglected homes with shitty parents, are we of the opinion that we should have just killed these kids off beforehand? Should we start rounding them up and killing them off now? It's outlandish to even consider, and very clear that they deserve the same chance to make a life for themselves and maybe pull out of whatever shithole they happen to be born into.

And again agreed with Kim, debating when a fetus is an individual entity and can feel is just a mask we use to get over the fact. In my head it's simple, a life is developing, and abortion puts an end to it. Conception is the very clear point at which that life starts and if you cut it down anywhere along the way you stopped what would otherwise be a human life. It bugs me that we can even consider it ok provided the fetus didn't "feel" anything, it would otherwise live and has no possible way to defend itself.

If you're having sex then you should be prepared to face the consequences. And if you really don't want the kid, I believe the waiting list to adopt is massive. Deal with the mess you made for yourself for 9 months and say goodbye. (cases of rape / incest etc still suck for this and I really don't know what way to go with those)

[Gemfire]

In cases of rape...fine...ill let it go....incest-If you want to be screwing a family member(sick bastards) then live with the consequences, not the easy way out...unless the child will be severly deformed or something. The whole men forcing the woman to have sex....all a woman would have to do is kick the man below the belt...and boom out of it...and away from the person pressuring her (thats if her firm attempts at NO arent accepted)...others like teenagers who are having sex just to....get knocked up? Too fucking bad...you did it...now you live it with (popular phrase comes to mind: Dont do the crime, if you cant do the time....) The whole Death Penalty as Epi mentioned...Did the fetus kill you? Did the fetus do anything in this world to harm you in any way? HELL NO..Did the criminal kill some people...Possibly...Eye for an eye =p..the whole financial thing....My mom was a waitress...got pregnant with my sister. she was 16 =p...Had me 4 yrs later (Still a waitress).....had my brother 7 yrs later(was a manager of a restaurant)....now....Shes going to be making 70K a year in one year...Going to college now....so a lot of that stuff is either a bunch of bs ppl use to cop out of things...or my mom is tough >_>

[arrogance]

Is abortion killing a child? Before the second trimester it can be argued that because the fetus is still extremely small, looks nothing like a human and does not have a developed central nervous system it is in fact not really human at all. It is physiologically completely dependent on the mother, and if taken out of the mother could never survive (unlike later term babies which can be born premature). So in effect, this is an extension of the body of the mother, and cannot exist independently of it. So does it have rights over the mother?

Hell yes it has rights over the mother. Mom suffers for 9 months or baby misses out on 80-odd years of life. Yes it's dependant, but it's still going to be born and live. There's no debating the fact that a life began, and then stopped.

The being allowed to kill off the fetus because the parents might be bad parents is outlandish, we let children continue living in bad homes every day, or even better remove them from bad homes. You also completely glaze over the option of adoption. Not being able to get an abortion doesn't mean you have to raise a child that you don't want or can't support.

And if these women need control so desperately, they should get that control beforehand and not sleep with jackass men who force them into sex, knock them up, and/or are likely to take off on them if they ever got pregnant. Exercise some control before your actions create another life, not after.

Also have to take issue with your parallels between people against abortion being for the death penalty. I don't know about "in most cases" or what evidence you came to that conclusion by, but in my case I think abortion is disturbingly wrong, and the same of the death penalty. I also really don't think it's an issue of personal belief that individuals should be left to decide on their own, these are social issues that influence far more than the individual in question, namely unborn children who aren't getting any say whatsoever. I think we can all see how people may feel the need to take it upon themselves to intervene on their behalf. Then again, I'm slowly realizing the futility of debating points like this on an internet forum where we all have our minds made up beforehand and reiterate our points 10 times while ignoring everyone elses.

[WiseCherub]

Any form of Abortion is wrong, and I totally disagree with it.

Ok, a woman has the free will to decide, but with free will comes responsibility and consequences.

If a woman decides to abort a fetus after like 4-5months of development; she is a self-centered piece of garbage IMHO. Its almost like telling your boyfriend that we will get married in 5 months, and then right before all the organizing... you say, oops I changed my mind.

If you commit to conception, then follow thru. You have free will, use it wisely.