Mafia: What a time to be alive!

[field]

I highly enjoyed getting saved by mafia doctor on N1 and then roleblocking exalt every night until i killed him LOL

gg guys, had me fking flailing from day 1

Did you guys send tp to kill on N1?

[ixt]

my two cents on notable performances: (thanks jessup for influence)

Midoent- although vocally u said u were unsure how to proceed and relied on willby for instruct, the information you provided from BIET onward was critical in leading town to victory. a fairly well-played effort broski, nice job---A

Willby- a fairly gutsy move early on, jumping out in the dark when we were still unsure if there were any defense/blocking roles to save your neck. Nevertheless, was the spark town needed to start off with the catch of a fairly important mafia role, their source of information. When a veteran, always a veteran.---A

Rodney- an admirable effort using Vengeful Nurse to keep town off your trail until we decided to put full focus onto you. Although throughout the game continuously received doubt, given the conditions being able to survive till day 5 is a pretty remarkable effort. ---B-

Myself- somewhat of a half-mistake early on, proves i still got much to learn as an amateur much like mido. however, this mistake was an honest one as it provided some info for town in how the wagons formed and correctly pinpointed those who voted on me as opposed to those on rodney. also, i correctly voted for mafia and was the initiator for the last push on zeebu. ---B-

Zeebu- considering his given role, i would have given him a higher grade had he remained slightly more active, as it seemed many of us recognized him to be able to be "put aside" due to to the voting scheme. However, due to gradual inactivity, pretty much only one word can sum up his performance: disappointing. Who knows how the game could have gone if he contributed more and attempted to sway town perspective? ---C

Exalt- a fair performance by another seasoned veteran, although he never managed to fire his ability out (#rekt by rodney). from the get-go jumped out to be the guiding light for town as most recognized him to be pro-town from the start. was the first to point out the voting scheme of Day 1, and made good call outs of the likes of voth and rodney. ---A-

Voth- this performance was a tad more difficult to gauge. realistically speaking, in a reasonable sense, a serial killer would jump onto a wagon to shield himself/herself from suspicion, but he jumped off (for whatever reason) and was the only person to vote Under with very little remaining time that nobody else could consider his doubts. And after he himself recognized the contradiction he made by whether having or not having a NL. As a result, townie roles voiced strong suspicion on his actions thereafter. ---C+

Undercut- flew underneath the radar quietly enough and managed to survive till the very end. given the allotted roles, a surviving town cop is pretty remarkable, but most of the leading discussion to capture mafia were led by willby. nevertheless, its another ggwp. ---B

BIET- a fairly disappoining performance sums it up. relatively low participation, and nothing in retaliation or attempt to sway town view once caught, NOTHING AT ALL. provided some input early on, but simply disappeared onward till his death. ---C-

Missa- another peformance a tad difficult to phrase into words. first day slapped a mafia-perspective vote, then seemed to melt into the shadows until mysteriously reappearing when willby mentioned an informant with tracker info (although it turned out it wasnt herself lol). However, she DID follow town votes to lynch a mafia member each day, and my doubts somewhat subsided due to rodney's dying reactions slapping his vote on missa. i guess like us other amateurs, still could improve but still a well-played game. ---B-

The_paul- although straight up caught by willby, his early exchanges with exalt seemed to put him off the radar at the start. However, it was from exalt or willby's questioning (i forget which) where he avoided specific questions to give rise to some doubts. Nevertheless, had he not been investigated i feel it was a fair performance at the start given by the limited amount of info before willby's daring play. ---B

Soilderz- it always sucks being the first one killed, and having to wait the longest time till another game starts. nevertheless, was recognized fairly quick to be pro-town early like exalt, and correctly voted his only vote on mafia member rodney. but unfortunately due to limited input still have to slightly penalize the grade, but it was a good overall performance with the time you had. ---B-

Field- more or less the same as soilderz here, but survived a bit longer ^.^. ---B


Given the end results on role distribution and considering experience levels, my MVP goes to midoent. Although received a few doubts going his way early, managed to stay anonymous until managing to link up with willby to become willby's "2nd life" when willby was killed, Spoke up at the correct time to oust BIET, as lurkers are indeed difficult to accuse with limited information. Provided the continual spark when the most vocal members all were killed, so town hope was not lost. GG

[Exalt]

WillBy confirmed in the thread that I told him I roleblocked rodney on n2. Exalt pointed to that confirmation and concluded that rodney lied in his fake claim. Undercut did point it out again and good thing you stayed on rodney. The point is, you gotta reread the thread, especially after townies are killed. You know that they were not lying in what they were saying. (Townies shouldn't lie, but they needn't say everything they know either, until it is necessary to do so).

This still confuses me, because I shot at Rodney the same night you Roleblocked him. Rodney claims he was saved by the Mafia Doc only on Night 1, yet you blocked him on Night 2. I shot him on Night 2, so what happened? Why didn't he die? Was this a mod mistake? His roleblock of me should not have gone through, because you roleblocked him. This is why I concluded he couldn't have been the roleblocker, because there's no way my kill should have not gone through without the Mafia Doc protecting him that night. I still can't figure out what happened here.

[fiS]

This still confuses me, because I shot at Rodney the same night you Roleblocked him. Rodney claims he was saved by the Mafia Doc only on Night 1, yet you blocked him on Night 2. I shot him on Night 2, so what happened? Why didn't he die? Was this a mod mistake? His roleblock of me should not have gone through, because you roleblocked him. This is why I concluded he couldn't have been the roleblocker, because there's no way my kill should have not gone through without the Mafia Doc protecting him that night. I still can't figure out what happened here.

I'll post all actions later, but here's something to chew on:
why would field's roleblock be stronger than rodney's? Or vice versa?

[Exalt]

As for my thoughts on the rest of the game...

I think Mafia's greatest mistake was that No Vote from Paul and BiET. Voth screwed himself by doing it as well. It was just too suspicious, and it directly caused Paul to be investigated Night 1. After his lynch, I had pretty much guessed the entire Mafia team right off the bat except for Zeebu, and Zeebu made his lynch inevitable through his own inactivity regardless. That No Vote thing really put the spotlight on both Paul and BiET, made Rodney look extremely suspicious after Paul flipped, and it got Voth killed as well. It basically caused the domino effect that led to such a quick sequence of scum lynches.

I also think Rodney could have afforded to roleblock WillBy or midoent instead of me with the Mafia Doc around. While it was frustrating to no end to be blocked all game long by him, it also directly helped Town's investigative roles do their thing without problems.

I'd also say the first domino was Rodney jumping on the WillBy wagon at the very start of the game, because it felt out of place to me. That's why I was so suspicious of him from the start. Paul, BiET, and Voth not voting for Rodney on Day 1 while claiming ixt looks scummy (mostly Paul saying that) was a huge tell as well. Nobody would have faulted them for voting ixt there, because half of town was voting ixt, and Zeebu was even voting for Rodney, but Paul and BiET really screwed up there. They linked themselves to Rodney through that No Vote, and it made Paul's Day 2 accusations against ixt scummy as hell in the process. It ended up not mattering due to the WillBy investigation Night 1, but had that not happened, Paul still was likely to be lynched for his Day 1 action, which would have caused the same domino effect with BIET, Rodney, and Voth as the investigation did. Long story short, it was too easy to connect the dots, and it directly screwed them over by not taking that free kill.

I'll also say that it didn't help Rodney, Biet, or Zeebu at all that they were so inactive. Paul made a go of it at least, and he probably would have been fine had he voted ixt Day 1. The inactiveness reallly screws scum over in every single game, because even when there is no evidence to go on, town eventually always goes to the 'Lynch All Lurkers' phase. Being inactive essentially puts suspicion on yourself by default, whereas at least when you speak, you only get caught through your own mistakes or blind luck. Give me the second option any day, because the first is an autoloss without being carried by teammates.

This is all just my $0.02 though, I'd like to see everyone's night actions if possible. What was the deal with Voth's NKs never happening? Why didn't Rodney die Night 2? Why didn't scum get a kill the last night? Who made the NK Night 3 against field, Voth or Scum, and who was the other target?

[Exalt]

I'll post all actions later, but here's something to chew on:
why would field's roleblock be stronger than rodney's? Or vice versa?

If a roleblocker is roleblocked, his action cannot get through. Had scum roleblocked field and field roleblocked scum's NK, field's roleblock wouldn't go through. That's how the sequence works. If both roleblockers block each other, both get blocked.

Example:

Mafia roleblocker blocks town roleblocker who blocks mafia kill - kill should go through

Mafia roleblocker performs kill and blocks town roleblocker, who blocks mafia roleblocker - kill blocked

Roleblockers can normally be roleblocked. It's your game, your rules, but I think it's important to let everyone know how night action sequence of events should go, at least when they are different from the accepted norm. Otherwise, it just confuses everyone for no reason, and it's not really good for either town or mafia. If you give all protective roles the ability to protect themselves for instance (widely regarded as not being possible), then it should be noted in your first mod post that this is possible, as are other rule changes. It allows scum to play things differently, and it makes town think of different reasons as to why things occur as they do.

Also, Mafia Wiki gives this info:

There is no consensus as to what happens when multiple Roleblockers exist and target each other (or with similar roles such as Jailkeeper). The prevailing opinion is that Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized. The other opinion is that all Roleblocks are simultaneous; thus everyone targeted by a Roleblocker is Roleblocked.

Here are a few examples to illustrate what the differences are, and thus why the moderator must choose well in advance how these kinds of actions would be resolved if multiple Roleblockers are in the game.

• Suppose Roleblocker A blocks Roleblocker B, who blocks Roleblocker C, who blocks Roleblocker D, who blocks Doctor E. If Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized, A blocks B, preventing B from blocking C, thus C blocks D, preventing D from blocking the Doctor - in short, the Doctor's protection would have an effect. If all Roleblocks are simultaneous, the only player who is NOT technically Roleblocked is A; the Doctor would be blocked.

• Suppose a Town Roleblocker and a Mafia Roleblocker target each other at Night. Who is Roleblocked?
  • Suppose that the Mafia Roleblocker in this example is also performing the Mafia kill. Does the kill succeed?
  • Suppose that a Tracker investigates the Town Roleblocker in this example. What result does the Tracker get?

Most moderators opt for arbitrary tie-breakers in ambiguous situations like these.

[Soilderz]

Wait, so I'm a little confused, did I get RB'd by Rodney N1 and thats why I died? I thought mafia had a strongman when I died even tho I protected myself.

[fiS]

Pre- and Postgame thoughts and comments:

#	Players	Allign.	Role
1	Exalt	Town	Vigi
2	WillBy	Town	Inventor*
3	Zeebu	Mafia	Godfather
4	field	Town	Roleblocker
5	Voth	Solo	Serial Killer*
6	Undercut	Town	Cop
7	Missa	Town	Hider*
8	BIET	Mafia	Doctor
9	ixt	Town	Bulletproof*
10	midoent	Town	Tracker
11	Rodney	Mafia	Roleblocker
12	Soilderz	Town	Doctor
13	the_paul	Mafia	Cop

* Modifiers
Inventor's Items: 1x Doc, 1x Cop, 1x Roleblock
Hider: Can hide behind "everyone", no weak mod (Hider does not know)
SK: additionally 1x Bulletproof (automatically activated until shot)
Bulletproof: as long as there are 5 or more players alive.

Balancing & Thoughts Pre-Game
Okay, so this is going to be a quite "mad" game. Every single player has a power role.
My thoughts while creating the setup: even though there are only 13 players, I wanted to spice it up. Not only a tad, but make it mad. (Lol it rhymes.)
13 players were divided into 4 Mafia, 8 Townies and 1 Solo.
With the Serial Killer, the Town's Vigilante and Mafia being able to make a kill every night, in worst case scenario there could be 3 Townie deaths at one night.
I tried to avoid that by throwing a "Bulletproof" and "Hider" into the game aside from the regular (quite powerful) Town Powerroles.
How is it going to turn out? I have no idea. Game could be over in 2 nights, worst case.
Then again Town *might* be too powerful with a Tracker, Cop and the Inventor role, while also having a regular Doc, Vigi and Roleblocker.
But on the other hand, they might all die in one night (lol I'm evil).
So Mafia gets strong roles too. I have no idea what is going to happen, but I hope everyone is going to enjoy this one - also because it's unexpected and everyone will likely doubt that there's three killing roles.
Mafia is also quite powerful, considering that they have a Doc and the Godfather, basically means that at least 2 Mafia members must be lynched (unless BIET's protection is blocked)
Might be a little tough for the Serial Killer, but I see no way to further balance him in without making him overpowered.

Night Actions and Votes can be viewed here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fP_XLWwf7HOId02rZVWEzlKLtnIMgocjg3CHoUK6oNI/edit?usp=sharing

RE Roleblockers: I used the variation that roleblocks are simoultaneous, basically: a roleblocker can not be roleblocked.
Because if a roleblocker gets roleblocked, the one roleblocker would be basically "more powerful" and I see no reason why that should be this way. Since this is one way of how to handle roleblockers, I know it probably did cause confusion and I could have stated it in the mechanics? Well, it's one way to handle it, and I think it's fair.

More thoughts to come.

[Soilderz]

Rofl some of these nights are so crazy lucky by a couple roleblocks and tracks, I love it lol

[Zeebu]

Sorry guys, life took over about midway through and I couldn?t contribute much. Posting anything useful from my phone is impossible and that was the only tool I had through much of it. I?m considering dropping out of the next one too for the same reason. On top of that, it was impressive mafia lasted as long as we did with as many investigative and killing roles out there. Also since Paul died early due to the Rodney debacle.

gg all

[fiS]

Soilderz
Yeah, basically you died because you were targetted by both, Voth and BIET. Regular doc can only protect the target from one kill. Really unlucky.

Some thoughts on the game:
Personally, I did like the game's schedule: 48 hour days, 24 hour nights - although, I do admit, it sometimes made phases really long.
For me as a host, who does have a real life and other duties at day times, it made hosting easier and I appreciate your patience with it.

Roleclaims:
Voth's Roleclaim: Nice try, Voth, but I think you took it way too far with your roleclaim. A for effort though. You probably should have admitted that you visited field, but with a different action.
Rodney's Roleclaim: Man, if you win the game with that roleclaim, you will be my Mafia hero. Vengeful Nurse? LOL come on.
ixt's Roleclaim: "Basically vanilla but powerrole", uhh, you got stuck here a little with the wording. You got away with it, but it was fairly lucky - I knew exactly what you were intending to say, but the others didn't.


Thoughts on players post-game:
No particular order

BIET: I think you've played a solid game, seeing as this was your very first game as Mafia and only the second game you have played so far. You kinda sneaked under the radar until you dodged out when confronted with mido's tracking result. That's what I found weak. You still could have come up with some sort of defense before being lynched.

Zeebu: Basically lurking but successfully staying under the radar due to lack of content and only chiming in at the end of the phases. I actually found it pretty disrespectful that you just went MIA in the hot phase without saying a word - while you didn't even really bother the entire game, even Rodney sending actions, etc. - you didn't even bother to use your action the very last night.. It killed the flow of the game.

Voth: Difficult role you drafted there. I think you played well and seemingly Pro-Town, but the tracker's result and your roleclaim was just not convincing enough. You also helped Mafia a lot with your kill. Night 1 you and Mafia both targetted the Doctor, Soilderz. Else he would have survived.

WillBy: Great play, looked Pro-Town from the start, convincing roleclaim and result. Good lead for town. Good roleclaim at the right time. Nothing more to say.

midoent: As this is only your second game, you had a great feeling with WillBy, contacting him with your results and (apparently) discussing the next target(s). With Voth and BIET that was two scum in a row. As WillBy died you went a little more insecure, at least that's how it seemed to me. Still, good choices especially as you are fresh with the game. I see confusion in your posts, but keep the hang of it. I'd like to read more from you, more posts going more into depth the next time - because now you know how it works.

Exalt: Man, I felt so sorry for you. You had very very good leads and very good thoughts and made the right choices for your night kills, but even before you claimed vigi, they didn't go through. I think you played a great pro-town game, with correct conclusions and leads - successful kills woul have made this clear.

ixt: Tough judgement as I get personal here because of your way of playing mafia and your way of communicating with me as a mod.
Mainly just following other people's leads and paths, without actually contributing own thoughts (exception: last but important stage of the game) other than tunnelling certain people in certain stages that have been quite obvious. Basically giving away the role at day 1 - no killer has targetted you the entire game, basically means that your role has been quite useless. Well, ever wonder why nobody targets you at night? I got an easy answer to that question.
Other than that: actually a solid game with right conclusions. while you are sometimes overly personal and rude. Rudness doesn't belong here. Mafia is About People lying, so don't tell them that they're "easy" or whatever. Playing pro-town is easier than anti-town.
I also found it shit that you've been pointing out honest hosting mistakes (I hope you realize it takes quite some effort and free time) and draw false conclusions. You could just PM me or just ask me instead of bitching around and being a shit about it. How about you host the next game?

field: I would have liked to see more from you, because I also think you were going in the right direction.

Missa: Very first mafia game! I think you did good! Same like midoent, I also saw confusion in your Ppsts and "what to do, what's going on?" kinda posts, but generally, the decisions were allright. You tunneled on ixt too heavily occasionally but hey, there was a great chance that ixt was scum with his behavior. Would like to see more of you!

Rodney: Vengeful Nurse, made me laugh. Holy shit how could someone possibly think of this. A for creativity. And A for staying alive until almost the very end when all signs pointed lynch to you basically from day 1. Also, good job on chiming in with night Action ideas when Zeebu went MIA - made Mafia survive a little longer.

Soilderz: not much to say here, you made the right choice protecting yourself, but damn, it just didn't help. Someone's gotta die at night, sorry, but it was you this time.

the_paul: You were basically really unlucky with the tracker. I liked how you defended the no-lynch on day 1 and argued with Exalt a lot. It seemed very authentical and I'd have believed it. Your roleclaim on day 2 was too late, I think that was the mistake.


THANKS FOR PLAYING EVERYONE.
Looking forward to more games, I hope you enjoyed the game, even though it certainly had it's ups and downs.

[RoDNeY]

Rodney: Vengeful Nurse, made me laugh. Holy shit how could someone possibly think of this. A for creativity. And A for staying alive until almost the very end when all signs pointed lynch to you basically from day 1. Also, good job on chiming in with night Action ideas when Zeebu went MIA - made Mafia survive a little longer.


THANKS FOR PLAYING EVERYONE.
Looking forward to more games, I hope you enjoyed the game, even though it certainly had it's ups and downs.[/FONT][/SIZE]

LOL i looked at what i was accused of and what results i had against me already and there was literally nothing else i could think of so i said fuck it if i can kill off exalt and claim Vengeful nurse to avoid just one lynch and maybe people like ixt will believe it without someone like exalt being a voice of reason

There was also a brief mention from zeebu in mafia chat that he had thought of possibly claiming nurse, i told him to let me claim nurse and then he could come out and role claim as the real nurse and push on me to get me lynched and then he would be put in good standing with town but that never played out. I'm interested to see how this would have played out, i knew i was dead from Day 1 so i would have happily sacrificed myself to put another Mafia into good town standing.

Thanks for hosting FiS!

[WillBy]

This game had me constantly worried. Mido and I had some very lucky results, and even then i was worried rodney was going to get away with it.

So many rbers definitely made it difficult to fully utilize roles- without a kill, I didnt fully trust exalt. Good thing we had a solid enough idea of who was bad that they couldnt cast doubt on him.

Sorry again t_p, looking forward to next game.

Big props to mido for some big carry moments, not easy as new player. Way to step up!

Also big props to fis, had no idea there were so many power roles, which can be very hard to track. FWIW, I think your consistent phase changes were good. Only reason my game was different ixt was that I was off work when I started, so I could devote a lot more attention, which sharply dropped off after I started my new job. TLDR: Hosting ain't easy

[Voth]

LOL

the one thing i was telling the truth about this game was that i legitimately meant to come back and cast a deciding vote on day 1 lynch, and the phase ended abruptly before i expected it to. if it helps, i would have voted rodney, and when he flipped scum, that would have been huge for me to be regarded as pro-town. i seriously lost the game for myself on day 1.

also, sorry for killing two good town power roles right away. i actually thought field might be scum. ah well.

also regret killing two of the better players, but my thought as serial killer was that the longer i leave the good players alive, the less chance i have of surviving to the end. so i guess i don't regret it really, but i do feel bad about it. the game got super boring as it went on and it was just inactive/inexperienced players, i actually stopped following it.

apparently i'm a dumbass too. my last words to town about it being impossible that exalt was vigilante... i actually believed that. i had no faith that there was a vigi in the game when the only people that died night 1 and night 2 were people i killed. i was shocked that mafia wasn't making any successful kills.

thanks for hosting fis, this was a pretty crazy game.

[Voth]

just checked the spreadsheet - dying that mafia and i both targetted field and soilderz. i guess they had the same idea to pick off power players to ensure survival.