Mafia: What a time to be alive!

[field]

I like how you distanced yourself from Rodney there, immediately after dogpiling me with him. Kind of scummy.

Saying I "distanced" myself from rodney implies that you previously thought we were close. What gave you that impression?
I've voted for him and wanted to lynch him on d1. I would've attempted to lynch him today, too, if WillBy didn't come forward with some information. That is what "my suspicions carry over to d2" means.

[RoDNeY]

this just got juicy boys
opcorn:

[RoDNeY]

this just got juicy boys
opcorn:

lame that was supposed to be : popcorn : what happend to the emojis on this forum

[RoDNeY]

My appointment took a lunch break, so I have a quick second to get this out. I can't respond to everyone, because I don't have a ton of time, hopefully after work.

I'm torn on Willby's role claim, and I don't know how you can say I was fishing for role claims Exalt, but I'll go over what happened last night.

My role is town cop. I tried to investigate Undercut last night, and my investigation was unsuccessful. Not guilty or innocent, unsuccessful. Obviously I don't know if this was a town role or a mafia role that blocked me, that's why I said there is a 50:50 chance that my claim could be corroborated. I do not want it to be, but there is somebody out there who knows this is true. Willby's theory about a bus driver could hold some water, but I don't imagine that the odds I was affected by a bus driver and a roleblocker on the same night are very high.

As a last point before I vote, I have been under suspicion since day 1, and especially since the early time of night phase 1. Not 1 person has spoken up for me or trusted me in any way, shape, or form. Which makes sense, because nobody has any reason to trust me. There have been 2 defenses that have occurred in this game, as I have laid out before. Remember the list, and hopefully remember the order.

I am officially useless. I didn't get any result night 1 to go off of, and now I have a target on my back, so lets find out if Willby can be trusted or not.

Unvote IXT
Vote the_paul

Claiming you had an "unsuccessful" night action is the easiest scum cop out imaginable since you don't have to actually try to come up with anything. My vote stands

Why did you pick undercut to use your supposed action on? Or is that just what you want us to believe? Trying to distance yourself from scum buddy and take any heat off him for when you inevitably flip scum??

[WillBy]

lame that was supposed to be : popcorn : what happend to the emojis on this forum

A fuckin tragedy, dude.

[fiS]

Current Vote Count:

the_paul - 9 (Exalt, field, WillBy, Zeebu, Voth, Biet, ixt, Rodney, the_paul)
Voth - 1 (Undercut)

Missing Votes from: Missa, midoent
Warning: Missa, I need you to post more please.

INFO:
Phase change in pretty much precisely ~24 hours from now.
Even though there's a very obvious trend right now I will keep my word on it and allow further thoughts. Maybe some of the more quiet players among us will use it to speak up.

[Exalt]

My appointment took a lunch break, so I have a quick second to get this out. I can't respond to everyone, because I don't have a ton of time, hopefully after work.

I'm torn on Willby's role claim, and I don't know how you can say I was fishing for role claims Exalt, but I'll go over what happened last night.

My role is town cop. I tried to investigate Undercut last night, and my investigation was unsuccessful. Not guilty or innocent, unsuccessful. Obviously I don't know if this was a town role or a mafia role that blocked me, that's why I said there is a 50:50 chance that my claim could be corroborated. I do not want it to be, but there is somebody out there who knows this is true. Willby's theory about a bus driver could hold some water, but I don't imagine that the odds I was affected by a bus driver and a roleblocker on the same night are very high.

As a last point before I vote, I have been under suspicion since day 1, and especially since the early time of night phase 1. Not 1 person has spoken up for me or trusted me in any way, shape, or form. Which makes sense, because nobody has any reason to trust me. There have been 2 defenses that have occurred in this game, as I have laid out before. Remember the list, and hopefully remember the order.

I am officially useless. I didn't get any result night 1 to go off of, and now I have a target on my back, so lets find out if Willby can be trusted or not.

Unvote IXT
Vote the_paul

Let me point out exactly what the_paul just tried doing here, knowing that he's caught scum. He is fake claiming cop in hopes of the real cop counter-claims, thus two important town PRs are outted for one already-screwed mafia player. It's exactly what I said what I'd do earlier in the game if I was caught scum, so it's a strategy that's right up my alley. Paul, I have to admit, you speak to my scummy heart when you try to pull off moves like this, but it won't work this time. I can't fault you for trying it, but you made a few notable mistakes:

1. You waited way too long to fake claim, so it was way too obvious that you've been talking strategy with your scum team trying to figure out what to do. You should've taken initiative immediately after the WillBy claim and disputed his result tooth and nail. Taking the amount of time you did to post a response is alone enough to incriminate you, not even factoring all the other anti-town things you've done this game.

2. You tried to role fish immediately before the WillBy claim, asking if the result was a Mafia kill or a Vigi kill. Town would naturally assume scum kill there, so I'm not sure why you asked about it, but if anyone actually answered your question, they would either have essentially just roleclaimed Vigilante, because scum aren't going to tell you they killed someone. You asking that question was 100% of a scum mindset.

3. Claiming you were roleblocked is fine in a vacuum, but any other town PR that was possibly roleblocked would easily know you are lying and thus will never leave your wagon. In that case, you mine as well have claimed a guilty result on someone to spice things up, because you'd be getting at least one townie on your wagon permanently no matter what you said.

4. You basically dug your own grave with the Day 1 No Lynch, and you may have dug the graves of your teammates doing that as well based on who you protected by doing so, whose wagon you avoided being on to avoid suspicion Day 1 (since you knew they'd flip town), and who joined with you in forcing that NL. We'll see what happens I suppose, but that NL might have bit you all in the ass.

[BIET]

Current standings:
the_paul (willby, ixt, zeebu, voth, ixt, exalt, rodney, field, biet, the_paul) <- yes, ixt actually voted the_paul twice (here and here)
voth (undercut)
no votes (missa, midoent)

With these standings (9 in favor) it is almost certain the_paul will be lynched today, even with the no voters picking voth it takes 2 switches to force a tie. Are we all sheep who follow willby's first vote like he said we are? we also have two people not showing up at all, and undercut voting for voth, whats up with that?

I had another look at all that's happened since soild's death. And the two things that stand out the most are definitely the role claims of willby and the_paul. After some thought, and I must have totally missed zeebu's post about this earlier when I posted my vote, it indeed seems very unlikely for willby to be an inventor. Since it was confirmed there was also a town doctor in play, and most likely a RB and cop (which tp claimed), wouldn't it be a bit too heavy on the roles? claiming inventor is also about the only role I can imagine that could not easily be refuted since it's a bit of everything. it just suits so many different scenarios.

the_paul must be feeling the weight of all the votes against him to role claim about halfway through the day. willby claims paul is guilty, paul claims he is the town cop. let go into some scenarios here:

what would it mean to lose the town cop at this point? for willby it would mean he is either an insane inventor (is that even a thing?), paul was switched by the busdriver, or willby is not what he says he is at all. losing the cop would also mean losing our ability to investigate as well as protecting.

it's likely that paul is just using the claim as an effort to confuse, but we have to at least consider the consequences.

to clearify, I'm not trying to protect paul in any way and I still think he is scum, but after playing cop last game (my first game) I know what value it has for town to win and we can't afford to lose him this early on.

[BIET]

Of course I post just after fis' update, great..

[Exalt]

Saying I "distanced" myself from rodney implies that you previously thought we were close. What gave you that impression?
I've voted for him and wanted to lynch him on d1. I would've attempted to lynch him today, too, if WillBy didn't come forward with some information. That is what "my suspicions carry over to d2" means.

Voth going after you is a bit telling to me actually. I see you as one of the highest townies on my list, mostly because you seem to be seeing things happen in this game the same way I have, and it seems to me like Voth is buckling under the pressure a bit. It feels like he's playing tighter than Day 1, and it almost comes off as him being strained. I can't describe it well, but I can see it in what he's been posting. Is it because his scum team is falling apart at the seams? Anyway, Voth has been more and more suspicious as Day 2 has gone on, not to mention his vote switch to Undercut at deadline. Even ignoring that as possibly being a silly mistake (I suppose it's possible), him going after me being possible scum for VSing Paul prior to WIllBy's claim (defending a scum buddy?), him talking about you 'distancing' yourself from Rodney (even though you voted Rodney and he forced a NL rather than do so), and him trying to tie random people together (Paul and me, Rodney and you, etc) seems awfully suspect considering he never seemed to care about pressuring or voting Rodney or Paul at any point previously. Why does he think Rodney is scum now, when he refused to vote him on Day 1, and why is he saying you are distancing when you were on the Rodney wagon? It isn't logical really. If anyone is tied to Rodney, it would be those who didn't vote for him Day 1, right?

Since I've already posted the real juice for the day, I'll just post some small berries based on what everyone is saying.

You all are playing a followers game. I notice this happens a lot when there's either some extra vocal players or early results like I've had, but the amount of trust being extended to players like Exalt and myself is worrisome for 3 reasons. Before I talk about that, I'll preface this with everything I've posted about tp is true.

The first problem with a follower game is that I could be lying. While paul hasn't yet posted his counter, a lot of people seemed to bite with the belief that if I'm wrong about paul, then you seek justice for him by lynching me. However, I could come up with plenty of excuses for why this investigation was wrong (busdriver) and maybe buy myself another day. It's dangerous because if I was lying, scum would get a free +2 margin. Assuming a 13 player 9-4 game, 3 free mafia kills makes it 6-4 and the game is 1 mislynch away (6-3 after lynch, 5-3 a night later). Ixt questioned it in the scummiest way possible, but at least he made me explain.

If town really does have a Vigilante as the_paul tried fishing for, then you won't be living through the night, so there's little risk involved unless that player is roleblocked and/or you are bulletproof.

[Exalt]

Current standings:
the_paul (willby, ixt, zeebu, voth, ixt, exalt, rodney, field, biet, the_paul) <- yes, ixt actually voted the_paul twice (here and here)
voth (undercut)
no votes (missa, midoent)

With these standings (9 in favor) it is almost certain the_paul will be lynched today, even with the no voters picking voth it takes 2 switches to force a tie. Are we all sheep who follow willby's first vote like he said we are? we also have two people not showing up at all, and undercut voting for voth, whats up with that?

I had another look at all that's happened since soild's death. And the two things that stand out the most are definitely the role claims of willby and the_paul. After some thought, and I must have totally missed zeebu's post about this earlier when I posted my vote, it indeed seems very unlikely for willby to be an inventor. Since it was confirmed there was also a town doctor in play, and most likely a RB and cop (which tp claimed), wouldn't it be a bit too heavy on the roles? claiming inventor is also about the only role I can imagine that could not easily be refuted since it's a bit of everything. it just suits so many different scenarios.

the_paul must be feeling the weight of all the votes against him to role claim about halfway through the day. willby claims paul is guilty, paul claims he is the town cop. let go into some scenarios here:

what would it mean to lose the town cop at this point? for willby it would mean he is either an insane inventor (is that even a thing?), paul was switched by the busdriver, or willby is not what he says he is at all. losing the cop would also mean losing our ability to investigate as well as protecting.

it's likely that paul is just using the claim as an effort to confuse, but we have to at least consider the consequences.

to clearify, I'm not trying to protect paul in any way and I still think he is scum, but after playing cop last game (my first game) I know what value it has for town to win and we can't afford to lose him this early on.

It seems like this is exactly what you're doing.

You doubt WillBy's claim, yet you also claim Paul is scum in the same post? Are you claiming that WillBy is Paul's scum buddy and got him lynched on purpose with the first vote of Day 2 and a full, unforced claim to back it up? If WillBy is lying, he's fucked, plain and simple, and there's literally zero reason for him to have done what he did as scum. He could've helped push Paul the normal way without drawing an ounce of suspicion his way, yet he full-claimed and gave a guilty result within the first part of Day 2 for no reason at all? Also, you think there is a busdriver in the game, yet you also say WillBy wouldn't be an inventor, because there are too many roles with a Cop (claimed by probable scum, not by town), a Doctor, and a possible Town RB (again, eluded to by probable scum) in the game? Are you serious right now? You contradict yourself with each sentence in your defense of Paul.

I think you are either scum buddies or you really haven't thought this through.

[Exalt]

Let us not forget BIET, you were not around Day 1 at all, did not vote for either of the two wagons (thus helping cause the no lynch), you defend Paul now due to contradictory statements such as claiming he's scum while also saying you don't believe WillBy, and yet you also give zero ideas as to what town should do if they did hypothetically leave Paul alive to screw us over even longer. Care to explain what plan of action you'd have town take, since you want Paul to be kept alive?

Let's play a game of hypothetical bazarro world though and say Paul really is Town Cop. He said he was roleblocked already Night 1, so what makes you think he would suddenly not be roleblocked every night he is kept alive from now on? Besides that, what would you have us do with WillBy then? Are you saying that instead of absolutely finding scum one way or the other, you'd rather lynch neither of them? Sounds familiar, because that's what you did Day 1 too.

Do you plan on lynching scum at any point in this game? Again, if Paul was kept alive, who would you be voting for, and what would you have any other Town PRs do from now on? What would Paul claiming 'I've been roleblocked' every new day phase do for the town exactly? A claimed Town Cop is no longer valuable when scum can just roleblock him in perpetuity, so what value does he give town now? The only other option he'd have is to claim a fake guilty on someone, because it would be ridiculous for any Mafia Roleblocker to ever not roleblock him from now until gameover if he really was Town Cop. So, what would you be doing to help town by keeping Paul alive? What should town be doing with WillBy then?

If not Paul, and not Rodney, and not ixt, and not WillBy, who should we lynch? You?

[the_paul]

Let us not forget BIET, you were not around Day 1 at all, did not vote for either of the two wagons (thus helping cause the no lynch), you defend Paul now due to contradictory statements such as claiming he's scum while also saying you don't believe WillBy, and yet you also give zero ideas as to what town should do if they did hypothetically leave Paul alive to screw us over even longer. Care to explain what plan of action you'd have town take, since you want Paul to be kept alive?

Let's play a game of hypothetical bazarro world though and say Paul really is Town Cop. He said he was roleblocked already Night 1, so what makes you think he would suddenly not be roleblocked every night he is kept alive from now on? Besides that, what would you have us do with WillBy then? Are you saying that instead of absolutely finding scum one way or the other, you'd rather lynch neither of them? Sounds familiar, because that's what you did Day 1 too.

Do you plan on lynching scum at any point in this game? Again, if Paul was kept alive, who would you be voting for, and what would you have any other Town PRs do from now on? What would Paul claiming 'I've been roleblocked' every new day phase do for the town exactly? A claimed Town Cop is no longer valuable when scum can just roleblock him in perpetuity, so what value does he give town now? The only other option he'd have is to claim a fake guilty on someone, because it would be ridiculous for any Mafia Roleblocker to ever not roleblock him from now until gameover if he really was Town Cop. So, what would you be doing to help town by keeping Paul alive? What should town be doing with WillBy then?

If not Paul, and not Rodney, and not ixt, and not WillBy, who should we lynch? You?

This is the correct question. I've been flushed out and had to role claim, and I am 100% useless from this point forward.Of course, I could have ended up being naive or paranoid or whatever and been useless anyway, but no mafia would let me get any results now that I've had to publicly claim.

I'm going to try to answer a few of the questions and comments directed towards me, even though it's useless at this point. I don't know why I started with the most recent but I'll see what else has come up.

[the_paul]

If town really does have a Vigilante as the_paul tried fishing for, then you won't be living through the night, so there's little risk involved unless that player is roleblocked and/or you are bulletproof.

I'm not fishing for who the vigi is. There's definitely a vigi, this game doesn't have a theme and is fairly vanilla. We have 2 oddball role claims, whatever the hell ixt ended up claiming, and Willby claiming an inventor that can use his own inventions, which is pretty irregular. I would be shocked if there isn't a pro town killing role. I'm not asking for the vigi to come out and say "LOL yeah I targeted so and so but it didn't work, my bad!". I was more looking to see what other people thought about why it happened, but I'm being constantly accused of fishing for roles despite the fact I've gone to great lengths to ask that nobody else role claim. Shit, I have a 50/50 chance of having a chance to defend myself if the roleblocker would confirm I was targeted, but this would be the absolute stupidest, most suicidal option available to that player. It would be a guaranteed loss for town, but I can still think about what if in my dying hours!

[Exalt]

Paul, you could give a last-words scum list. That could help town in the future.