Donald Trump vs Joe Biden

[kthx]

Now let's bring up religion and we can run the gamut in 8 fun filled pages

[the_paul]

Ironic that we were just accused of whitewashing history when there was just an Executive Order signed that actually mandates whitewashing American history going forward, but ok. I'm so sick of this Ted Cruz esque whataboutism bullshit take, because it doesn't apply. "Oh, you can't protest racism because you have an iPhone. You can't criticize Presidential policies because you didn't speak out loudly enough condemning China's abuse in Hong Kong. You can't want Universal Healthcare because your shirt uses materials that were refined in less than ideal conditions !!!" It's so fucking lazy, it's basically saying that you admit that there are glaring issues in the United States, but you're going to avoid addressing or even acknowledging them until the world is a utopia of equality in all places. Ted Cruz is the master at whiny bullshit like this, but interestingly enough can't keep up the tough guy act when the boot he's licking lash out at him.

I would be willing to bet just about everything on the idea that the United States has both Universal Healthcare and UBI before I die. Like Exalt said, UBI went from a fringe idea hardly anyone had heard of to being a mainstream issue with support rising exponentially in the last year or so, thanks mainly to Andrew Yang and the Yang Gang. Look into how many jobs lost from the pandemic are projected to never return. Elon Musk has said he's only a couple of years away from realistically being able to have his semis be 100% autonomous. I have no idea if that means 2 years or 5 years, but when it happens, the USA will be in dire straits if there isn't a plan in place. Artificial Intelligence is going to make life better in many ways, but its also going to drastically change everything.

Also it's pretty much insanity that Universal Healthcare is seen as some radical idea here. The United States spends more per capita on healthcare than any developed country by a wide margin, and the overall health and life expectancy across the board here has been dropping in relation to just about every 1st world nation. Absolutely bat shit crazy how radicalized everything has gotten here in the last handful of years.

[Exalt]

Now let's bring up religion and we can run the gamut in 8 fun filled pages

We could go there too if you want. The key to any discussion about a sensitive topic is to not take anything too seriously. The problems start happening when people take their shit so seriously that when their arguments fail and they're finally tripped up (which is inevitable for everyone), they get backed into a corner and have to defend whatever dumb shit they said previously to the death, even when they know it was a dumb take. Doubling down on stupidity helps nobody, but most people take themselves far too seriously to ever stop it.

Here's my take: Most conservative Christians are not real Christians, and 99% of them and all the wealthy evangelicals they follow have never actually read the bible. Change my mind.

[kthx]

I'll get back to this tomorrow Exalt, work emergency

[Guest]

loool remember when the_paul used to laugh at me for being socialist?...him and kthx literally stalked my myspace page and edited a picture saying "I'M A SOCIALIST" under it like that was supposed to be some sort of insult...now he's advocating quite arguably socialistic ideas

anyway, in addition to what he said..yea, we need a certain basic minimum standard of living...a robust "welfare" state (dont let your head explode people i know that word is a no no for you..cry about it)...even if we don't fundamentally change the capitalist system that we operate under, we can still start to implement those basic minimum standards of living...at the very least, the "welfare" state should include housing, healthcare, education, sanitation, communications (internet, cell, tv, landline), and food.

also, we need to work towards democratization and nationalization of the enterprise (from farm to factory). notice how i didn't just say nationalize (which is what soviet union ended up as and most right wing idiots are scared of..the missing element is democracy at the workplace)...


Democracy at work: A cure for capitalism - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWTV_GoNvys

Trump Town Discovers the Practicality of Socialism - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqsToWxI-m0

"we pump water out of the ground and charge the people for it, why can't we do that with f̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶ EVERYTHING.?"

☭

[Exalt]

loool remember when the_paul used to laugh at me for being socialist?...him and kthx literally stalked my myspace page and edited a picture saying "I'M A SOCIALIST" under it like that was supposed to be some sort of insult...now he's advocating quite arguably socialistic ideas

anyway, in addition to what he said..yea, we need a certain basic minimum standard of living...a robust "welfare" state (dont let your head explode people i know that word is a no no for you..cry about it)...even if we don't fundamentally change the capitalist system that we operate under, we can still start to implement those basic minimum standards of living...at the very least, the "welfare" state should include housing, healthcare, education, sanitation, communications (internet, cell, tv, landline), and food.

also, we need to work towards democratization and nationalization of the enterprise (from farm to factory). notice how i didn't just say nationalize (which is what soviet union ended up as and most right wing idiots are scared of..the missing element is democracy at the workplace)...


Democracy at work: A cure for capitalism - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWTV_GoNvys

Trump Town Discovers the Practicality of Socialism - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqsToWxI-m0

"we pump water out of the ground and charge the people for it, why can't we do that with f̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶ EVERYTHING.?"

☭

Myspace? Lol oh man. That's a blast from the past. I wonder if Tom is still alive.

America will likely never achieve any of these things in our lifetime to be honest. Look how hated Bernie Sanders was by his own party and the media in general. None of his policies were literally any different than what every other first world nation on earth already has and much of the rest of the world as well. The United States is the only industrialized country in the world that does not have Universal Healthcare for all citizens. It's the most expensive nation on earth to get a secondary education from as well. As for the Green New Deal, that's not even radical and much of the world already agreed to do most of that stuff under the Paris accords. Basically, if a guy like Bernie Sanders is demonized for trying to bring the US on par with the rest of the world in extremely basic things like healthcare and education, there's zero chance America will lead the way in things like a 'welfare' state where other things are taken care of for citizens. Why would we get that when we can instead spend trillions bombing some poor people in some middle eastern/west Asian country. 2000 people died in 9/11 attacks and trillions were spent in a heartbeat. 200,000 people died of COVID19 and people cry about wearing masks. Healthcare and basic human rights aren't valued in America.

[the_paul]

loool remember when the_paul used to laugh at me for being socialist?...him and kthx literally stalked my myspace page and edited a picture saying "I'M A SOCIALIST" under it like that was supposed to be some sort of insult...now he's advocating quite arguably socialistic ideas

anyway, in addition to what he said..yea, we need a certain basic minimum standard of living...a robust "welfare" state (dont let your head explode people i know that word is a no no for you..cry about it)...even if we don't fundamentally change the capitalist system that we operate under, we can still start to implement those basic minimum standards of living...at the very least, the "welfare" state should include housing, healthcare, education, sanitation, communications (internet, cell, tv, landline), and food.

also, we need to work towards democratization and nationalization of the enterprise (from farm to factory). notice how i didn't just say nationalize (which is what soviet union ended up as and most right wing idiots are scared of..the missing element is democracy at the workplace)...


Democracy at work: A cure for capitalism - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWTV_GoNvys

Trump Town Discovers the Practicality of Socialism - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqsToWxI-m0

"we pump water out of the ground and charge the people for it, why can't we do that with f̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶ EVERYTHING.?"

☭

What socialist ideas am I arguing for? Also I never did that, I didn't know you had a myspace. I'm sure it was friends of mine and I'm sure I laughed at it though.

[MHz]

I'm not a Trump fan, but I hope he wins this year.

If Biden wins - expect all those people who have been fostering discontent: rioting, looting, burning stuff, those who have this hyper-racialised view of the world, and who seek to curtail freedoms in the name of Correct Thinking, to be in positions of power. They'll be mayors, governors, district attorneys, leaders of government departments, etc. If you thought this intellectually stultifying atmosphere of fear, racial tension and self-censorship was at fever pitch, wait to see what a Biden presidency will look like. They'll be twice as loud and twice as effective. This is how the New Left operate - they infest institutions like rodents (see: Rules for Radicals and the Long March Through the Institutions.) That's not to say that Biden is some kind of Communist Inflitrator (quite the opposite, he is 100% establishment centre-right Democrat), but the unholy, intersectional coalition that the Democrats have formed to win elections necessarily entails power sharing with multiple identitarian interest groups, with BLM being at the forefront of that. Trump - as imperfect as he is - is probably one of the last bulwarks against this encroachment of cultural marxism throughout America's public and elite institutions.

[Exalt]

I'm not a Trump fan, but I hope he wins this year.

If Biden wins - expect all those people who have been fostering discontent: rioting, looting, burning stuff, those who have this hyper-racialised view of the world, and who seek to curtail freedoms in the name of Correct Thinking, to be in positions of power. They'll be mayors, governors, district attorneys, leaders of government departments, etc. If you thought this intellectually stultifying atmosphere of fear, racial tension and self-censorship was at fever pitch, wait to see what a Biden presidency will look like. They'll be twice as loud and twice as effective. This is how the New Left operate - they infest institutions like rodents (see: Rules for Radicals and the Long March Through the Institutions.) That's not to say that Biden is some kind of Communist Inflitrator (quite the opposite, he is 100% establishment centre-right Democrat), but the unholy, intersectional coalition that the Democrats have formed to win elections necessarily entails power sharing with multiple identitarian interest groups, with BLM being at the forefront of that. Trump - as imperfect as he is - is probably one of the last bulwarks against this encroachment of cultural marxism throughout America's public and elite institutions.

Terrible take. Imagine saying all of this while literally all domestic terrorism comes from the right.

10/27/2018	Tree of Life Synagogue Shooting	Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
10/24/2018	White supremacist kills two black people after failing to enter a black church.	Jeffersontown, Kentucky
1/10/2018	Murder of Blaze Bernstein	Orange County, California
8/12/2017	Car-ramming attack into counter-protestors at the white nationalist Unite the Right rally	Charlottesville, Virginia
7/13/2017	University of Maryland stabbing	College Park, Maryland
5/26/2017	Portland train attack	Portland, Oregon
3/20/2017	Stabbing of Timothy Caughman	New York City
2/22/2017	Witnesses said Adam Purinton yelled, "Get out of my country," before fatally shooting Srinivas Kuchibhotla	Olathe, Kansas
11/27/2015	Planned Parenthood shooting	Colorado Springs, Colorado
7/23/2015	Shooting at a showing of the film Trainwreck	Lafayette, Louisiana
6/17/2015	Shooting attack on worshippers at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church	Charleston, South Carolina
9/12/2014	Attack on Pennsylvania State Police barracks	Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania
6/8/2014	Ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers	Las Vegas, Nevada
4/13/2014	Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting	Overland Park, Kansas
11/1/2013	Los Angeles International Airport shooting attack on TSA officer	Los Angeles, California
7/21/2013	Double murder committed by Jeremy Lee Moody and Christine Moody	Jonesville, South Carolina
1/29/2013	Anti-government “survivalist” boarded a school bus with a gun and demanded a student be given to him; he then shot and killed the bus driver	Midland, Alabama
8/16/2012	Ambush attack against St. John the Baptist Parish police	St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana
8/5/2012	Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting	Oak Creek, Wisconsin
12/6/2011	FEAR group attacks)	Georgia
10/7/2011	David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby killed a teenager they thought was Jewish	Corvalis, Oregon
10/4/2011	Two white supremacists, David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby, murdered a 53-year old African American man	Eureka, California
6/26/2011	Murder of James Craig Anderson	Jackson, Mississippi
7/21/2010	Murder of Todd Getgen[42][43]	Carlisle, Pennsylvania
5/21/2010	Two Sovereign Citizen members killed two police officers	West Memphis, Arkansas
4/20/2010	Shooting at bookstore cafe perpetrated by Ross William Muehlberger	Wichita Falls, Texas
3/29/2010	Neo-Nazi killed an African American man	South Huntington, Pennsylvania
2/18/2010	Suicide attack by airplane	Austin, Texas
10/3/2009	Two white supremacist skinheads shoot at interracial couple and killed female	Phoenix, Arizona
8/28/2009	Murder of sex offender by white supremacists	North Palm Springs, California
6/30/2009	Murder committed by Charles Francis Gaskins	Carmichael, California
6/10/2009	United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting	Washington, D.C.
5/31/2009	Assassination of George Tiller	Wichita, Kansas
5/30/2009	White supremacists murdered 2 immigrants in home invasion	Arivaca, Arizona
5/6/2009	Neo-Nazi murdered Wesleyan University Jewish student	Middleton, Connecticut
4/4/2009	Shooting of Pittsburgh police officers	Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
1/21/2009	Murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores	Brockton, Massachusetts
12/12/2008	Woodburn bank bombing	Woodburn, Oregon
11/8/2008	White supremacist teens murdered an Ecuadorian immigrant	Patchogue, New York
8/1/2008	White man obsessed with Nazism murdered an African American man and a Hispanic man	Bristol, Pennsylvania
7/27/2008	Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting	Knoxville, Tennessee
7/12/2008	White supremacist teens beat a Hispanic man to death	Shenandoah, Pennsylvania
2/12/2008	Middle school skinhead student shot and killed gay peer	Oxnard, California

Need more? Here's a few recent ones:


Man accused of plotting to kill Joe Biden after van with guns, explosives found in NC

https://abc11.com/man-accused-of-plo...in-nc/7253661/

How FBI says Michigan gov kidnapping plot went from texts, small gatherings to raid

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-...ry?id=73698990

Violence by far right is among US’s most dangerous terrorist threats, study finds

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...hreat-analysis


Stand By and Stand Back, right?

[the_paul]

So who won the debate last night (if anyone)?

[Rab]

Trump won comfortably.

[the_paul]

Trump won comfortably.

Hmm that's interesting. He certainly did better, but so did Biden in my opinion, and Biden won the first debate handily IMO. Well, Biden lost the debate less would be more accurate. Why do you think Trump won? The people I've talked to that believed the same mostly seem to agree because of his change in temperament. I'd argue setting the bar that low doesn't constitute a win, but I'm curious what other opinions people have who think Trump won.

[Grasps]

Trump certainly won this last debate in my opinion. Biden had trouble many times during the debate to stay focused and a few times seemed to forget what he wanted to say. He came off to me at least as a grumpy, senile old man who is basically going to bow down to everyone (BLM, paris concord agreement, nato ect.). There were times when Trump asked Biden to answer questions like who's funding his campaign (wallstreet), being wishy washy with fracking, his dealings with Ukraine and other things that Biden side stepped and never did answer. He also promised to fix his 'violent control & law enforcement act" that he spearheaded with Clinton back in the 90's but as Trump tactfully pointed out that in 8 years with Obama he wasn't able to do that--in fact he barely did anything against it if at all.

I think the real reason Biden lost though is his socialist outlook and the changes he wants to make concerning health care & slashing US oil production that many states rely on for their economy. That's a huge turn off. And taxes? Of course he plans to increase those but the problem he doesn't seem to understand or any democrat where Trump does is that the middle class is the only people who pay them. Poor people don't pay taxes and the super rich don't pay taxes. It's why under Obama, the middle class has nearly been taxed to the point of no longer having a middle class. I mean honestly, I am not even sure if their is a middle class left at this point. If Biden takes over, he'll finish the job and we'll turn into a socialist welfare state because the middle class is already overburdened with such things like paying for Obama care when they don't need a doctor and all the taxes.

There were other things like how Biden would deal with North Korea & China which honestly would only further destabilize the asian peninsula. Kim Jong Un has not forgot what Clinton & Obama did to Muammar al-Gaddafi in Libya. The last thing North Korea is going to do is give up their nukes and pushing it, like Biden wants is only going to spell trouble. Trump at least understands that a friendship with the North is beneficial to some decree. It allows us to keep an influence in asia to curtail the ever growing militarized presence of the Chinese by having our servicemen & women in the South without provoking confrontation from the North. If we shit on the North, we risk losing that ability without jeopardizing the innocent lives in South Korea & Japan should the North want to make a statement which they have enough ballistic missiles, not even counting their ICBM's to wipe both of them off the face of the earth. I am with Trump in that let the little rocket man make his nukes so long as he plays by the rules--which so far he's been doing (mostly)

Bottom line is Biden came off as a typical corrupt Politian that is going to enforce the wills of corporate. Trump came off as an idiot but one that might not be a corporate patsy that will at least keep the middle class alive & the economy moving. That and law enforcement in our cities and streets to keep the peace.

Am still going to vote 3rd party this year or just not vote. Truthfully though at the end of the day I don't even believe US presidents actually have a say on the happenings in our country. I am a firm believer they are just puppet heads to keep people divided and blind to the real men at work behind the scenes (the elite rich who own our country). I mean comeon, any person with half a brain cell would know the best way to control a massive amount of people in your country would be to use democracy to do it. It keeps people divided which is exactly what you need to do to control them because if people actually came together and realized the bullshit schemes taking place, they could easy overthrow the powers at be but so long as we are pacified with all this noise Left, Right, Black's vs. White's, Gays, Straights, BLM, KKK, you name it it's impossible for us to make change and allows these super elite to keep on doing their thing uninterrupted. Democracy is the biggest crock of shit that tricks people into thinking they have a say in what happens in their country not realizing that both sides of the isle are owned by the same people lol It's ingenious really and I know for sure I'd use it myself if I was one of the powerful elites because it's utterly effective at controlling livestock.

Just my 2c. End rant.

EDIT: Another reason I strongly feel politics are just smoke & mirrors is this. Out of all the people in this country, the amazing minds we have and people who could do great works, we are stuck voting for Trump or Biden? Even when the race was going on and there were all the front runners, they were all lousy rich people who were disconnected to society. I am pretty sure your average 5th grader could run this country better yet here we are. It's all bullshit.

[the_paul]

EDIT: Another reason I strongly feel politics are just smoke & mirrors is this. Out of all the people in this country, the amazing minds we have and people who could do great works, we are stuck voting for Trump or Biden? Even when the race was going on and there were all the front runners, they were all lousy rich people who were disconnected to society. I am pretty sure your average 5th grader could run this country better yet here we are. It's all bullshit.

I agree wholeheartedly with this part of what you said. I also don't disagree with a lot of the points you made above. But, when it came to actual substance, I don't remember Trump saying absolutely anything that was concrete policy. His response to asking about the specifics of his healthcare plan he answered by saying it's going to be big and beautiful and fix all of the Obamacare problems. He's president for for like 3.8 years and he still can't definitively give a single answer on a healthcare plan, that's a red flag for me. He also kept repeating the line that China has paid for the farmer subsidies, which is simply flat out a lie. The farmers needed the subsidies because we lost the phase 1 of the trade war or whatever the fuck they're calling it now, and China has bought about 35% of the products they agreed to under the phase 1 deal that Trump was so proud of. Taxpayers have paid that subsidy and continue to foot the bill, period. A lot of the shit Trump kept spewing reminded me of 2016, lots of adjectives, 0 concrete policy, and a whole lot of guarantees that other countries will pay for things he does. It didn't happen with the wall, it hasn't happened with farmer subsidies, and I don't know how anyone can take it on faith that these things will suddenly start happening after 4 years.

Biden did fuck up a lot of things too. The back and forth on whether he would ban fracking or not is a bad look. He needs to commit one way or another. If states and communities haven't been able to read the writing on the wall and have continued to put all of their eggs in the fossil fuel basket, sorry, that's on them. I don't care about banning fracking, but eliminating any incentive or subsidy that goes towards fossil fuels is such an easy first step it is astounding that the idea is so divisive. I agree with you about North Korea though. I honestly believe they have no desire to do anything, but they need to posture aggressively every so often. Just clip their wings when that happens and otherwise leave them be. Denuclearization would be great, but that strikes me as a pipe dream.

Can someone help me out with Wall Street thing going on at the moment? So Trump has been claiming for years that he created the best economy in history (gross exaggeration at the very least) and that stock prices and 401ks are doing so well, then Wall Street companies donate to Biden more than Trump, and suddenly that's a badge of honor? I can't follow that logic. I did laugh when Trump said if he wanted to he could call Wall Street and shatter every fundraising record, but he simply doesn't want to. That along with the "I take full responsibility. It was China's fault" lines were entertaining.

Altogether I just don't understand how Trump won. He had to backtrack on the vaccine timeline, tried to walk back trashing Fauci and their relationship, then offered literally 0 substance on healthcare and trade deal issues. It doesn't feel good pulling for someone at Biden, but I thought the contrast has been very stark during the 2 debates.

Oh and as far as the taxes go, I guess I don't understand your point. The middle class pays most of the taxes that fund the government and social programs, so instead of rectifying that, the emphasis should be on reducing the taxes paid by the middle class? I guess I don't see what that actually accomplishes other than continuing to punish the poorest citizens. God forbid a candidate actually say anything about increasing the (currently nonexistent) tax burden of top 1% of earners. You lost me on that point

Edit: Forgot to add I liked what Bide said about drug convictions. Possession with a quantity enough to distribute is one thing, but jailing drug users has been completely ineffective and gigantic tax burden for many years. Treatment isn't free obviously, but at least it has a chance at not just being kicking the can down the road.

[Rab]

For me it was Biden stuttering, forgetting what they were talking about, getting angry - basically came across like a dementia patient. Add the obvious lying and being in the pockets of god-knows-who, I trust him even less than Trump. As usual, my sympathies to USA-bros who are gonna end up with one of these clowns in the White House.