Donald Trump vs Joe Biden

[the_paul]

True, I would hope it's a wake up call for Republicans that they sold their entire party out for 1 person, and that person is currently on track to lose to just about the most ho hum candidate I could imagine. Granted a lot of the margins are razor thin, so these places could flip red, but right now the statistics are not in Trump's favor generally.

[Voth]

Got it, and this actually makes sense to me. I don't think the meat of his speeches are any different in terms of substance (read: its all mostly horseshit), but the delivery is certainly a lot different. If this is what Bluff meant by his statement then this makes a lot of sense.

Substance in a politician's speech? No such thing. It's all bullshit. Trump just has (or perhaps had) a way with showmanship that made people feel like they were hearing from someone authentic who was just saying how they felt, regardless of how much they agree or disagree with his point. That's a breath of fresh air for many people in terms of politics and how they are spoken down to by politicians generally day in and day out.

Looks like he will likely lose. A shame actually, because Biden won't make it through a term -- and anyone who believed he might is lying to themselves. Just make it clear what this election really was: Trump vs. Kamala Harris.

Thank God the Republicans will likely retain control of the Senate. If the Democrats managed all three branches, this country would be fucked beyond imagination, frankly. I am generally a moderate person, but the rising Democratic platform is truly frightening.

Exalt I'm not taking the bait with all of that. You surprise me with how intelligent you are but how little you actually know.

[Bluff]

Got it, and this actually makes sense to me. I don't think the meat of his speeches are any different in terms of substance (read: its all mostly horseshit), but the delivery is certainly a lot different. If this is what Bluff meant by his statement then this makes a lot of sense.

Voth explained it well, yes.

[Bluff]

I don't know man. If Trump is the kind of person they'd want to have a beer with, then they're all a bunch of losers with shit friends. I don't care about not being PC, but some of the shit Trump says is absolutely racist as fuck. Even beyond that, other shit he says or does is absolutely fucked up for a president to say, basically endorsing violence and even murder. 'Stand by and Stand back' to the Proud Boys?. Sharing clips of Trump supporters attacking people? Sharing clips of Trump supporters saying "the only good democrat is a dead democrat"?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preside...dead-democrat/

"I've come to a place where I've come to the conclusion that the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat," Griffin says in the first seconds of the clip, drawing cheers and applause.

Gtfo here with that 'he makes people chuckle' shit. Hitler probably made some people laugh too. You have to PURPOSELY tweet that shit out. You don't just 'accidentally' do shit like that. Stop making excuses for it.

I can't speak for a lot of republicans because I imagine it to be different ideological landscape per area of the country, state, city, etc. For example, I live in Houston, touting a 6.16 million population in the 'Greater' Houston Metro area. Mainly due to the diversity of industry and oil and gas, we have a dense ethnic mixture of peoples from all over the world, speak over 90 languages, and have a more-or-less even split of controlling interests between parties. Statistically speaking, we are the most diverse metropolitan city in the United States (I also attended the most diverse school in the country at the time for undergraduate studies, University of Houston). Racism is an odd concept here, because we were raised around everyone. I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood where my friends were white, black, indian, hispanic, and vietnamese. We dont typically have any issues with rioting or civil unrest. What I'm really getting at is that despite living in or around the big city I still lean republican, and many of us do. Thats why I scratch my head as to why democrats and republicans are painted with one respective brush. Yes, I voted for Trump, but I never once thought he was a "cool guy." Nor did most of us who did vote for him think him to be some savior. There are some things I like that Trump has done, and things I dont like. I dont think Biden will do a horrible job if he's elected, just doesnt align with my preferences (i.e., many friends and family I fear will be adversely affected by whatever his approach will be to big oil). Speaking on what you said about listening to only what we want to hear from our preferred candidate and ignoring everything else; there is far too much of this going on and poses a threat to the US as a whole if we continue this way.

[Leland]

china

[Exalt]

I can't speak for a lot of republicans because I imagine it to be different ideological landscape per area of the country, state, city, etc. For example, I live in Houston, touting a 6.16 million population in the 'Greater' Houston Metro area. Mainly due to the diversity of industry and oil and gas, we have a dense ethnic mixture of peoples from all over the world, speak over 90 languages, and have a more-or-less even split of controlling interests between parties. Statistically speaking, we are the most diverse metropolitan city in the United States (I also attended the most diverse school in the country at the time for undergraduate studies, University of Houston). Racism is an odd concept here, because we were raised around everyone. I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood where my friends were white, black, indian, hispanic, and vietnamese. We dont typically have any issues with rioting or civil unrest. What I'm really getting at is that despite living in or around the big city I still lean republican, and many of us do. Thats why I scratch my head as to why democrats and republicans are painted with one respective brush. Yes, I voted for Trump, but I never once thought he was a "cool guy." Nor did most of us who did vote for him think him to be some savior. There are some things I like that Trump has done, and things I dont like. I dont think Biden will do a horrible job if he's elected, just doesnt align with my preferences (i.e., many friends and family I fear will be adversely affected by whatever his approach will be to big oil). Speaking on what you said about listening to only what we want to hear from our preferred candidate and ignoring everything else; there is far too much of this going on and poses a threat to the US as a whole if we continue this way.

Well personally, I don't think most Americans have a brain to begin with to think critically like you and others here do, regardless of party preference. Most literally treat it like a sports team. They have no idea what Trump or Biden stand for or against besides hearsay, most of which is completely untrue regardless. We all have to face the fact that most Americans are just morons. That's an education issue that I think needs to be addressed badly, moreso than almost any other topic in America.

I think Biden will win this, although it could technically still swing to Trump seeing as it's so close. The issue is where he is calling every Biden mail in vote fraudulent, declared himself the winner of the election within like the first 5 hours of the counts starting, and lie to the retarded part of his base into protesting now in front of these polling places where they are counting ballots. These people are morons, but beyond that, they're complete hypocrites. How can anyone claim to be against protests/riots over black men being killed, but then show up armed to your own protest to stop votes being counted. There's no justification for it, and Trump doing that has shown time and time again that he is not fit to be president. He's a two bit dictator wannabe.

As a side note, I think anyone that shows up to a protest with weapons, especially firearms, means that protest is now violent. Peaceful protests don't require guns. These people should be arrested, but they will not be, because the police are on their side politically. That's bad news for everyone in the grand scheme of things. That's how you creep closer to George Orwell's 1984 scenario.

Regardless, I don't think your family and friends in the oil business have much to fear from Joe Biden of all people. He's not going to do a thing against those industries. He literally set the date for renewable energy at 2050. I mean that's the most far away, arbitrary number possible, and honestly, anyone that thinks the oil industry is going to last forever isn't very bright to begin with. Literally everyone in that industry knows it's going to end soon for obvious reasons, which is why the most renewable energy funding actually comes from Big Oil. They're all in the game already. When it's time to fully transfer by the time we are all old and senile, they will be the top dogs in that industry as well. Look it up. As for the rest, I hope your family doesn't stay in the oil business forever thinking they don't need to change eventually, because that's like people in the horse and buggy industry trying to vote against cars existing. That's not how progress works.

[Exalt]

imagine if the democrats actually put forward a candidate people liked

This right here tbh. If neoliberals and moderate Democrats were honest with themselves, they'd be calling this election a catastrophe even with a Biden win. They didn't retake the Senate, which absolutely should have been in play. They actually lost seats in the House, and most of all, the presidential election was a nail-biter under circumstances that absolutely should have led to a complete slaughter of the Republican party. They learned absolutely nothing since 2016 and only got rewarded for it due to the incompetency of Trump himself. If Trump didn't constantly put his foot in his mouth over non-forced errors like insulting the military (which trust me, pissed a fuck ton of vets and active duty guys off), he'd almost certainly have won again. Granted, I'm calling it early and he still has a path to victory, but it looks pretty grim for him at this point.

My point is, Biden was the worst possible candidate the Dems could have picked, second only to Kamala Harris herself, who was unanimously hated by everyone in the same way Hillary was. What kind of tone deaf crap did the DNC think they were pulling by putting in a cop-loving, tyrannical former DA who couldn't even win 1% of the vote during the primaries? That's the exact opposite of what Democrats wanted, and if the idea was to get the Republican vote with her, they were out of their minds. Republicans hate Kamala more than even progressive Dems do. It's literally one of the few things both democrats and republicans can always agree on.

Here's the other issue I have. Now, imagine Bernie Sanders was the nominee. Republicans would be scared out of their minds, because Bernie was a formidable speaker and debater. He would have torn Trump a new one, and the man is so good at speaking that his appearance on Fox News town halls got him standing ovations even with the moderators trying to frame him as a socialist, and his podcast with Joe Rogan changed millions of minds from thinking he was a crazy man to actually respecting him. Sanders would have won in a landslide the same way that FDR won one in the 1930s during the Great Depression. Besides that, people didn't choose him literally because they thought he would be called a socialist by the conservatives and they'd be afraid to vote for him, except that's exactly what happened to Joe Biden as well. It was a terrible excuse, all things considered.

Oh, and what's the most ironic is how these states that voted against Biden voted for progressive platform ideas such as $15 minimum wage in Florida, legalized weed in like 6 states including Mississippi, decriminalization of all drugs (and full legalization of shrooms) in Oregon, etc. Exit polls over the past many years in every election have shown that the vast majority of people prefer things like universal healthcare, higher minimum wage, free college, etc as long as those questions weren't framed as Democrat or Republican. People only rejected the ideas when they had a D or an R next to the name.

Point is, neoliberal Democrats might have won this election, but they'll lose the next one after 4 years of McConnell blocking all legislation in the Senate, Biden gets nothing done, and Donald or Ivanka run in 2024 against Kamala Harris or some dumpster fire candidate like that. They literally do not learn or change, and I think Trump was their useful idiot to force through someone as bad as Kamala and Biden even though the voters dislike both of them. Biden is at least just seen as a harmless old man who is being used. He's not someone anyone is afraid of. Kamala though... that's a poison pill right there. 2024 will be another 2016-type reckoning for Democrats if they don't wake up and go back to populists like Bernie. At least Republicans respected him as a politician for his integrity and honesty, even if they didn't agree with any of his policies or political views.

Edit: I forgot the biggest kicker of it all. Exit polls showed that the demographics for everyone except white men voted more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. White men were literally the only ones to have a lower percentage vote Trump. This should show the neolibs loud and clear that identity politics does not work. That shit needs to be thrown in the trash forever. I wonder if they'll learn from it though. Doubtful.

[Rab]

I was thinking more along the lines of someone moderate and not senile, e.g. Buttigieg.
Sanders is just a more extreme grandpa, so I don't think that would have been any better.

[Exalt]

I was thinking more along the lines of someone moderate and not senile, e.g. Buttigieg.
Sanders is just a more extreme grandpa, so I don't think that would have been any better.

Well you said someone people actually like. Populists are not moderates. Buttigieg would have been no better than Kamala Harris. They're the same type of politician.

[Grasps]

Did the math and if it checks out Trump wins 274 to Biden 270.

[Rab]

Did the math and if it checks out Trump wins 274 to Biden 270.

actually impossible, try again.

[Grasps]

actually impossible, try again.

yea my math was wrong. SURPRISE? LOL.. but if Wisconsin swings in Trumps favor he'd win and last I check he was only like 20k votes from Biden.

[paradise!]

ignore everything said.... whats everyone having for dinner

[Bluff]

Well personally, I don't think most Americans have a brain to begin with to think critically like you and others here do, regardless of party preference. Most literally treat it like a sports team. They have no idea what Trump or Biden stand for or against besides hearsay, most of which is completely untrue regardless. We all have to face the fact that most Americans are just morons. That's an education issue that I think needs to be addressed badly, moreso than almost any other topic in America.

I think Biden will win this, although it could technically still swing to Trump seeing as it's so close. The issue is where he is calling every Biden mail in vote fraudulent, declared himself the winner of the election within like the first 5 hours of the counts starting, and lie to the retarded part of his base into protesting now in front of these polling places where they are counting ballots. These people are morons, but beyond that, they're complete hypocrites. How can anyone claim to be against protests/riots over black men being killed, but then show up armed to your own protest to stop votes being counted. There's no justification for it, and Trump doing that has shown time and time again that he is not fit to be president. He's a two bit dictator wannabe.

As a side note, I think anyone that shows up to a protest with weapons, especially firearms, means that protest is now violent. Peaceful protests don't require guns. These people should be arrested, but they will not be, because the police are on their side politically. That's bad news for everyone in the grand scheme of things. That's how you creep closer to George Orwell's 1984 scenario.

Regardless, I don't think your family and friends in the oil business have much to fear from Joe Biden of all people. He's not going to do a thing against those industries. He literally set the date for renewable energy at 2050. I mean that's the most far away, arbitrary number possible, and honestly, anyone that thinks the oil industry is going to last forever isn't very bright to begin with. Literally everyone in that industry knows it's going to end soon for obvious reasons, which is why the most renewable energy funding actually comes from Big Oil. They're all in the game already. When it's time to fully transfer by the time we are all old and senile, they will be the top dogs in that industry as well. Look it up. As for the rest, I hope your family doesn't stay in the oil business forever thinking they don't need to change eventually, because that's like people in the horse and buggy industry trying to vote against cars existing. That's not how progress works.

I agree with you on all fronts. These past four years have certainly brought out some people’s lowest form of integrity (or lack thereof).

As far as oil and natural gas goes, I’m all for renewable energy. The prime minister of Japan likewise set the objective of clean energy dependence by 2050. I’m not saying that isn’t a realistic goal, but my gut says oil will be a major factor until it’s close to being bled dry. Too much money is involved. The industry here is what steel is to Pittsburgh, Automotive is to Detroit; for many, it falls upon you as an immediate option.

As long as a leader has a solid plan for the future, I’m all in (although that’s a broad stroke without going into detail). We will see what happens!

[Bluff]

People only rejected the ideas when they had a D or an R next to the name.

Bingo