TW Mafia: Dodgeball aka Revenge of the Voth

[the_paul]

I was sort of fist-pumping for you through almost the first two paragraphs of this post. It was sort of like "LET'S GO MY BOY PAUL IS TOWN WITH ME LET'S GOOOO!"

Then I saw your last sentence of paragraph 2. Just a few questions... what makes Backwards immune to scrutiny for being a lurker? If anything, he is the most dangerous lurker in the game, no? We have both witnessed him make game-winning and game-breaking moves while propping up that "don't give a fuck" facade. I see three main lurkers besides Backwards -- Panda, Sailor, and Beast. Panda I've been up for lynching since D1, Sailor I still believe is likely VT but that's open to change the longer she stays completely silent, and Beast is being Beast (who I admit I just simply cannot read game-to-game). I'm wondering why at a fairly decisive day phase, your focus is on those three rather than Backwards, who has done just as much if not more scummy shit by hammering Halp and ignoring any heat that anyone throws his way.

I get voting Panda out of self-preservation if it comes to it as the phase wears on if nothing changes. That being said, two votes dropped on you out of nowhere should probably anger you to a point where you want to look at those two (and apply pressure there) rather than some scrub lurkers who are basically a dart throw.

Just not quite sure how to take this, honestly.

Given that it is Friday, and Willby has a habit as a host of letting phases play out as long as need be for legitimate conversation to occur, I don't really care which one gets pressure first. Exalt had voted on Panda already, so 2 votes early in the phase adds some pressure, especially for someone who is relatively new. That's why I started with Panda. Once we hear from Panda, and if their story checks out, I plan on moving down the lurker list in whatever order just to force some activity and substance from them. Probably not the logic you're looking for, but that's why I started with Panda.

Also, the 2 votes on me don't really anger me at all. Backwards has been tunnel visioning me since day 1, which is pretty ironic given that he was one of the deciding votes to lynch the town nurse, and I was not. Vehicle I kind of anticipated when I brought up the possibility that he and LF could have been working together. I didn't even put it out there as a definitive thing or put a vote on him, it was just a possibility to keep him on everyone's radar. Given that, if I were him, I probably wouldn't have even acknowledged it and just moved forward, but here we are. You know me Voth, you know how often I've been lynched as town. If you think I'm going to panic vote someone so early in the phase change as retaliation, that's not me at this point. I want to use my early votes to apply efficient pressure to people that have been lurking, and go from there. 2 votes on Panda seems more efficient to me early on than 1 on backwards and 1 on Panda. Just my 2 cents

[Vehicle]

Voth Backwards lurks every game so I don't think it's scummy behavior when he does it, just par for the course. He also jumped on LF pretty quickly early in Day 2. I get that he hammered Halp with his added vote but I don't think he's scum. I could totally be wrong, I don't have concrete proof, but I don't think he's the best target today.

the_paul You said you 'took your chances' or something like that last night. What were your results?

[Voth]

I agree with the_paul on one thing: I thought Jessup was claiming doctor since Halp died as well and I bet scum-team did too. Your death protected the doctor so thank you for that?

Everything else is hogwash. You don't even have to re-read the whole thread to see through it, just go back and read the first two pages after Day 2 began. There is no planet where scum would go after their own in the beginning of the phase like that. Read everything before Voth nailed LF and ask yourself "Is Vehicle voting LF as a diversion?". The answer is obviously no.

Paul is taking his best shot at what he thinks is the easiest target today. I wasn't convinced of my vote before, but now I am. Bye Felicia. (Did I use that right?)

TIMEOUT

just wanted to take a legitimate timeout to point out the first use of the word "hogwash" in a mafia thread in history

legitimate fire my man

OK BACK ON

[the_paul]

I agree with the_paul on one thing: I thought Jessup was claiming doctor since Halp died as well and I bet scum-team did too. Your death protected the doctor so thank you for that?

Everything else is hogwash. You don't even have to re-read the whole thread to see through it, just go back and read the first two pages after Day 2 began. There is no planet where scum would go after their own in the beginning of the phase like that. Read everything before Voth nailed LF and ask yourself "Is Vehicle voting LF as a diversion?". The answer is obviously no.

Paul is taking his best shot at what he thinks is the easiest target today. I wasn't convinced of my vote before, but now I am. Bye Felicia. (Did I use that right?)

Lol, to act like it is not a possibility is completely disingenuous. It is possible, it has happen, it does happen, and I only presented it as a theory for people to keep in their back of their minds. Your over the top defensiveness is noteworthy though. Also, if you think this theory of mine is so unbelievably outlandish and you are town this game, you better buckle up because this could be a very long game. I didn't say it is the most likely scenario, I didn't even vote for you. But it is a possible scenario, no matter how much you kick and scream about it.

[Vehicle]

the_paul I'm not being defensive, you are!!!!

But really, the reason I keep bringing it up is because I think it's an outlandish idea to even float. To be more direct: I think it's an idea scum would float to try to kill me. I'm not defending myself so much as I am pointing out how scummy it is for you to continue pursuing the idea. You're not the first genius to float it, but you are the one who brought it back up.

If I were scum I might just ignore your post and let it slide to keep off myself. But I'm in it to win it baby, and you're middle name is Don Corleone (I think).

[Voth]

I agree with the_paul on one thing: I thought Jessup was claiming doctor since Halp died as well and I bet scum-team did too. Your death protected the doctor so thank you for that?

Everything else is hogwash. You don't even have to re-read the whole thread to see through it, just go back and read the first two pages after Day 2 began. There is no planet where scum would go after their own in the beginning of the phase like that. Read everything before Voth nailed LF and ask yourself "Is Vehicle voting LF as a diversion?". The answer is obviously no.

Paul is taking his best shot at what he thinks is the easiest target today. I wasn't convinced of my vote before, but now I am. Bye Felicia. (Did I use that right?)

What makes you an easy target today? I never thought that. The options last day phase were you or LF, and in your defense you did vote LF before I brought the evidence against him public. I don't know on what mafia universe that makes you an easy target today just because the_paul is theorizing blindly on the chance he takes a dirt-nap during the night phase. In fairness, before this back and forth, it sort of made me believe that both of you might be town. To win a game, townies have to keep every possibility, however ridiculous, in the back of their heads. Sometimes, those possibilities come out in words on the forum because they just trigger a gut feeling in an experienced mafia player. Sometimes right, more often than not wrong, even for the best of players.

But this back and forth is a little bizarre...

[the_paul]

If people generally want me to reveal that, I'm happy to do it, but I do believe there is value in holding off on letting my complete train of thought for night actions out into the open. Let me know what you think. Basically, I simply got a "your action failed" result, so I'm assuming that I fell victim to the same person that made Jessup fail on N1. She was likely suspected as the Doc and obviously took the kill N2. Either way, let me know your thoughts (talking to everyone here) on if I should put out who I targeted.

It's a weird request from me, and honestly since you were blocked or whatever happened it isn't really relevant. Just forget it and keep it quiet, it'll make a little bit of sense down the road

[the_paul]

the_paul I'm not being defensive, you are!!!!

But really, the reason I keep bringing it up is because I think it's an outlandish idea to even float. To be more direct: I think it's an idea scum would float to try to kill me. I'm not defending myself so much as I am pointing out how scummy it is for you to continue pursuing the idea. You're not the first genius to float it, but you are the one who brought it back up.

If I were scum I might just ignore your post and let it slide to keep off myself. But I'm in it to win it baby, and you're middle name is Don Corleone (I think).

Bro, if I was pushing this theory because I wanted to lynch you, don't you think I would have voted for you? And had more conviction in my presentation of the theory? I have said, every single time, that it is just a possibility that we need to keep in our minds. You are far from the bigger fish that we need to fry at the moment. But anyone thinking that LF flipping mafia goon exonerates you is mistaken. That was my only point. Voth is confirmed as town, the rest of us are not. If this statement bothers you, I'd have to question why. At the moment though, my attention is going to be devoted to the lurkers for the time being.

[the_paul]

What makes you an easy target today? I never thought that. The options last day phase were you or LF, and in your defense you did vote LF before I brought the evidence against him public. I don't know on what mafia universe that makes you an easy target today just because the_paul is theorizing blindly on the chance he takes a dirt-nap during the night phase. In fairness, before this back and forth, it sort of made me believe that both of you might be town. To win a game, townies have to keep every possibility, however ridiculous, in the back of their heads. Sometimes, those possibilities come out in words on the forum because they just trigger a gut feeling in an experienced mafia player. Sometimes right, more often than not wrong, even for the best of players.

But this back and forth is a little bizarre...

My vote isn't on Vehicle, and never has been. My interpretation of the bolded part of his post is that he thinks Panda Express is the easiest target, whether due to being quiet or inexperienced here. Might be wrong, but that's how I read it.

[Vehicle]

Fine paul be the voice of reason. My past series of posts were an attempt to just feel you out a little more. I'm moving you to the neutral column but keeping my vote since I don't have better options.

sailor jupiter What's your logic for voting Panda Express?

Panda Express Do you plan on participating at some point?

[Voth]

My vote isn't on Vehicle, and never has been. My interpretation of the bolded part of his post is that he thinks Panda Express is the easiest target, whether due to being quiet or inexperienced here. Might be wrong, but that's how I read it.

Maybe a miscommunication or I really just don't understand, but I was asking Vehicle why he thought he was an easy target for a lynch today. We have all sort of been quoting eachother and responding mid-dialogue in real time, so maybe I'm just an idiot.

[Exalt]

Yeah, I don't really understand the Paul votes. Anyone want to actually give real reasons for them? Paul was fast wagoned early on D1 too after I RVS voted him, and people didn't hop off that train until Voth and I pushed back on it saying it was ridiculous. Halp got lynched in the end, but it was a compromise lynch more than anything, because people didn't want to leave Paul for some reason.

Truth be told, Panda should've been the D1 lynch all along. I'm not moving my vote from Panda unless there is a good reason to do so. Paul may even be scum, idk, but I'd rather risk keeping scum Paul around for a phase than scum Panda, because Panda will never willingly give info or do anything productive that could help solve the game. I'm not gonna let the lurker scum who do nothing win the game by killing off all the active townies.

Beyond that point, think of who has been NKed so far. An inactive Kthx and then Jessup. Jessup looked like she was the doctor, but if it were me, I'd have RBed Jessup and killed off Voth, not the other way around. I assume scum Paul or scum Vehicle would do the same, unless they over-thought it. To me, this means a new to TW mafia scum team, not Paul and Vehicle.

[sailor jupiter]

Voth Backwards lurks every game so I don't think it's scummy behavior when he does it, just par for the course. He also jumped on LF pretty quickly early in Day 2. I get that he hammered Halp with his added vote but I don't think he's scum. I could totally be wrong, I don't have concrete proof, but I don't think he's the best target today.

the_paul You said you 'took your chances' or something like that last night. What were your results?

If WillBy's tally is chronological, Backwards was one of the last people to vote LF.

LF - 8 (Voth, Beast, Vehicle, Exalt, Jessup, Sailor Jupiter, sdrawkcab, the_paul)
Vehicle - 1 (LF)
Beast - 1 (Panda Express)

This is also my reason for voting Panda (their seemingly random vote on Beast). They've not only been quiet, but the few posts they did contribute were weak or pointless.

My town list: Voth (most likely), Vehicle (probably), Beast (maybe), Exalt (probably).
Scum list: Panda (probably), Backwards (idk man), the_paul (probably).

If Panda turns out to be mafia, I would think Beast is town. Beast was the second to vote LF yesterday and I don't see why any mafia member would do that.

[Vehicle]

OK, I'm picking up what you're putting down.
Unvote the_paul
Vote Panda Express

D1 Exalt scum lists for the win!

[Voth]

Yeah, I don't really understand the Paul votes. Anyone want to actually give real reasons for them? Paul was fast wagoned early on D1 too after I RVS voted him, and people didn't hop off that train until Voth and I pushed back on it saying it was ridiculous. Halp got lynched in the end, but it was a compromise lynch more than anything, because people didn't want to leave Paul for some reason.

Truth be told, Panda should've been the D1 lynch all along. I'm not moving my vote from Panda unless there is a good reason to do so. Paul may even be scum, idk, but I'd rather risk keeping scum Paul around for a phase than scum Panda, because Panda will never willingly give info or do anything productive that could help solve the game. I'm not gonna let the lurker scum who do nothing win the game by killing off all the active townies.

Beyond that point, think of who has been NKed so far. An inactive Kthx and then Jessup. Jessup looked like she was the doctor, but if it were me, I'd have RBed Jessup and killed off Voth, not the other way around. I assume scum Paul or scum Vehicle would do the same, unless they over-thought it. To me, this means a new to TW mafia scum team, not Paul and Vehicle.

I actually had this same exact thought run through my head. The way I followed the bread crumbs was the thought that if we had a nurse, we clearly have a doctor somewhere. That being said, my role being fully claimed and known to everyone to be fairly dangerous for the scum team may likely elicit the protection of the Doctor, especially after LF flipped scum as a result of my night action. Jessup was barely half-claimed as anything other than a townie with some power of some sort, so perhaps they thought it best to run the opposite to what most would do. Kill the unknown PR, block the known PR, and deal with what shakes out from that the next night.

The more I think about it, if my theory rings true, that's a fairly smart and/or experienced scum team way to play it. The obvious play was to kill me. Instead, they take me out of the equation N2 and kill Jessup hoping she is the Doc they are looking for.