Wtf is up with Intelligent Design?

[Sarien]

Regardless, it's a public school. Federal laws still trump state schoolboards. If the schoolboards voted to ignore title ix, the board would get sued and those in violation would be forcibly removed from their elected positions.

Title IX only applies to institutions receiving Federal assistance. More for you after the next quote.

Sorry Sarien but what's popular isn't always right.

ID is creationism with a mask on. The fact that they attack specific parts of the theory of evolution shows that they do not believe in Creator-->evolution, they believe in a 10,000 year old universe and a direct inturpratation of the bible. No scientific evidence supports this and it is not possible to test the existance of god or miracles. ID is just a way to get that into the schools.

ID was not arived at using the sceientific method and is pseudoscience, nothing more.

As for the state thing, it appears that this case is being consider a land mark pridcent and a green light for any school board wanting to destory their science curriculum with this nonesense so it effects everyone. Federal law also overrides state law.

To the contrary, my views aren't exactly popular, but they are right. I believe in state's rights. (This is for you too, JT). Federal law does not override state law except in instances and powers specifically granted by the US Constitution. Sadly that's eroded and it's sad, but it is still there. That's why the federal government uses taxation funding given to the states as a noose to make them behave the way they want them to. Don't believe me? Look at why the legal blood alcohol limit was dropped to 0.08%. Because if states chose not to comply with the federal government in their directive, then they lose millions in federal funding. Money taken from people through taxes, and used to hold our own more important local governments hostage, and turn them against us. Great, ain't it?

It doesn't matter if ID is creationism with a mask on. The point is that it isn't Christianity or Buddhism with a mask on. I think Intelligent Design is idiotic, and pretty pointless. Not to mention makes about as much sense as casting fairy spells. But this isn't my state, and it isn't my fight. This is the decision for their citizenry, not me. If it came here, would I fight it? Absolutely. But that's where you guys aren't picking up the lesson.

People and things and the things we want for ourselves where I live are different than say Kansas, or where you live, JT. You guys can have all the opinion you want on the subject, but in the end, you don't get a say unless it's happening at home, and that's exactly how it should be.

If you believe it's wrong, great, work to keep it away from where you live.
If you believe it's right, great, work to get it added where you live.

The way I'm seeing the situation? Works for more people than just myself and that see things exactly the way I do.

The way you're seeing the situation? Works only for people that agree with you.

[Subjugation]

Title IX only applies to institutions receiving Federal assistance. More for you after the next quote.


To the contrary, my views aren't exactly popular, but they are right. I believe in state's rights. (This is for you too, JT). Federal law does not override state law except in instances and powers specifically granted by the US Constitution.

Dude, I'm not trying to get you off it...I agree with the concept of states rights in non-civil rights issues.

But my point is, seperation of church and state IS a constitutional issue, so public schools must comply. If they want to teach ID, that's what private schools are for.

[Ephemeral]

My opinion is that the Right HAD to do something, they could not continue to preach that evolution was wrong when everyone knows evolution is fact (doh, just look around). The hand writing is on the wall and my prediction is that within the next few years research (most DNA research) will crush any remaining doubt concerning human roots.

So something had to be done. So ID became the Right's way of inserting God into the mix. Funny thing I have always struggled bridging the 'gap' in the evolutionary chain, where it seems to have taken a huge leap forward. Chaos theory seemed to be able to cover the 'gap' a bit, but that seemed a stretch to me. I kind of always held the door open on this as a place where God might fit in.
The fact that this is pretty close to the Right's ID makes me afraid now.

The one thing that really burns me about the Right and ID...
I live in the bible belt of the US, and the Right is all around me. Most are literal believers in the bible, word for word. Yet now they are spouting ID like it was always in their agenda. Without using the same bible passages as creationism, where exactly is ID described in the bible? No one heard of ID 25 years ago, isn’t ID a new approach and completely ‘learned’? When I ask these questions to many of my literal bible believing friends, they get mad.

[Ephemeral]

Dude, I'm not trying to get you off it...I agree with the concept of states rights in non-civil rights issues.

But my point is, seperation of church and state IS a constitutional issue, so public schools must comply. If they want to teach ID, that's what private schools are for.

But isn't it seperation, not elimination?

[Kolar]

I didn't mean your views Sarien, I mean what ever the popular vote is it still can be unconstutional. These days it almost always is. School are funded by the states, I'm just guessing here, and the states also recive federal funding. Aswell the states are not above federal law or rulings, there's many cases where state laws are trumpt by federal legislation.

ID sure as hell doesn't supply the word god but it does imply a single creator of the earth, basicly a monotheism, a young universe, existance of super natural events to replace logical and observational studies to explain phenomenon.... all that good bible stuff people take for fact. It was invented and injected into these little towns by evangelicals, I don't think it could get anymore Christian. Anyways it doesn't matter if point people directly at a speicific religion, the theory does not hold up in debate and has not been reviewed because it lacks the basic requirments, this isn't within the realm or branch of science and there isn't a real debate.


Anything that happens in Dover or in Texas has a effect on the entire country and on the world, I know you see this as a state issue but it's a culture and constutional issue first.



Some good news:http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...638584,00.html

[froedrick]

Is anyone else as interested as I am how Universities are going to treat Biology students coming out of Kansas.

Will they accept a High school biology course that teaches ID as official credits and allow them to continue on?

I know that here in Canada, if you haven't met the requirements you have challenge the course and write some sort of exam. Now some universities might have an entry level test to deduce which course you should take, (I know some unis do this with math etc). But wouldn't it in turn cost the University money to do this, and in turn force them to just not accept these people. This could mess up a lot of kids College/University careers (could not saying it will), and it's totally out of their control. Pretty unfair if you ask me.


EDIT: mispelled treat

[Subjugation]

Is anyone else as interested as I am how Universities are going to treach Biology students coming out of Kansas.

Will they accept a High school biology course that teaches ID as official credits and allow them to continue on?

Absolutely, I am interested in this.

I mentioned this in a previous post in this thread, but the Association of Christian Schools International has a case in the California Supreme Court. They sued the University of California system for religious discrimination. Basically, the UC system won't count several of their classes for academic credit, which means the students who attend ACSI high schools can't apply to UC's like UC San Diego, UC Santa Barbara, UC Davis, or Cal Berkeley.

I imagine this case will lay the groundwork for other university systems to follow suit.

[froedrick]

I must say that If I was one of the heads of admission at a University. I wouldn't accept a course such as this as an acceptable grasp on said subject. And would therefore ask them or pre-empt them that it wouldn't be accepted.

[Theif of Time]

Intelligent Design garbage doesn't put forward feet for any specific religion. So if they want to add a sentence that says "Some people believe that crap is so complex it has to have some greater being behind it all."

Thats true, the way its been put out officially. Theres a supposed leaked document from the leading ID institution (The Discovery institute) called the Wedge Document.
Basically, it outlines a long term plan for bringing ID into the public schooling systems (Rather than bringing it in at university level, where IMHO a new scientific theory should start... and then leak down to the public schooling level.)
Here is the wedge document (reproduced)
Also, here (the name is misleading... I think its a creationism parody site)
Hell, even wikipedia has an entry on it.

GOALS
Governing Goals

* To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.

* To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and hurnan beings are created by God.

Also, according to this document, they are aiming at

* An active design movement in Israel, the UK and other influential countries outside the US

* Ten CRSC Fellows teaching at major universities

Within Five years.

So, it appears harmless on the surface... But stinks of... well, a conspiracy thats no longer much of a conspiracy, cos of this leak.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Pat Robertson: Still a Shitbag!

http://media.pfaw.org/video/pfaw/pfawvideo.asp

[Subjugation]

Yea, I heard about what that walking colostomy bag said.

It's just amazing that these old coots who faithfully watch him never question his faith with the kinds of things he says. He says shit that directly contradicts the bible---and they still send him money.

[froedrick]

Hate to bring up an old thread but.... http://www.nbcactionnews.com/kshb/ho...258990,00.html

take a lookie at this

LAWRENCE, Kan. (AP) - Creationism and intelligent design will be studied as mythology – not science – in a course being offered at the University of Kansas next semester.

It's called "Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and other Religious Mythologies.''

Religious studies professor Paul Mirecki says the KU faculty has had enough" with promotion of the intelligent design concept in Kansas.

The state Board of Education recently adopted new science standards that treat evolution as a flawed theory, defying the view of national science groups. Intelligent design says the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

Intelligent design advocate John Calvert said equating intelligent design to mythology is to label advocates as religious nuts.

EDIT:fixed link

[Kolar]

That link isn't working.
http://www.kshb.com/kshb/home/articl...258990,00.html

He was later beat up by two angry fundamentalist and forced to resign his position over the controversy.

What a sad state of affairs their education system is in.

[Pressure Drop]

INTELLIGENT DESIGN = MALE PATERN BALDNESS

wtf

i want to meet this intelligent designer as i've a bone to pick with his/her/its sense of humour.

[Subjugation]

He was later beat up by two angry fundamentalist and forced to resign his position over the controversy.

Apparently, there is some dispute as to whether or not the attack took place. Read about 1/2-way down:

http://badgerherald.com/news/2005/12...signs_as_d.php

That would be really, really dumb if he staged the beating only to get caught later. However, if he did stage it, he probably would have planned it out smarter...so who knows.