religion, part 8.782

[Pressure Drop]

Religion = wrong Pressure Drop = Right


Prayer does not work
It may indeed have a desired placebo effect and help in that respect but thats were it stops.

To try and say prayer works is absolute rubbish and if you believe that i want you to think off all the religoius wives that prayed for their husbands to come home safe from WWII. I'm sure all religious ppl would do that prayer, did all the religious ppl's loved ones come home alive??? Or was it random hmmmm.... infact there is countless things like that involving different religions, why would your christian god answer an islamic prayer? Its all coincidence and belief that there was divine intervention.

My reasoning for saying that its easier comes from a different worldview. When I was an athiest, I thought that athiests were the more intellectually inclined, that we were after the "real" truth" and that christians are generally doing everything "blindly" (which some are) which holds no firm ground. I can make a very easy counterargument that deeply religious people are the ones latch on to difficult ideas that they do not want to latch on to - which is why they are strong in their faith. If this whole religion and spirituality thing was black and white, wouldn't everyone be eager?

Thats not a very good counter argument. When you say latch on to difficult ideas you mean ideas that don't stand up to scrutiny but you'll believe them anyway becuase they give a nice answer.

[Saturn V]

I tend to agree with what Feuerbach, Marx, and Nietzsche have said about religion: that man is self suffcient, but weaker people project this idea of god to help them overcome pain.

[Bioture]

It does work. However, when it does many non-christians put it down to coincedence. Most of my prayers have been answered, some immediatly, some taking a while. The only ones that haven't been answered were because it was a selfish prayer or because God knows what's better for me or the person I'm praying for.

Be careful when you say "It does work." We know it works, but it isn't wrong for nonbelievers or nonchristians to say it's coincidental. We can say that our prayers have been answered a thousand times over, but it wouldn't help the individual who's seeking his or her spiritual side on their own accord.

[Bioture]

Religion = wrong Pressure Drop = Right

Prayer does not work
It may indeed have a desired placebo effect and help in that respect but thats were it stops.

Where did you get this information, and what authority does it have?

To try and say prayer works is absolute rubbish and if you believe that i want you to think off all the religoius wives that prayed for their husbands to come home safe from WWII. I'm sure all religious ppl would do that prayer, did all the religious ppl's loved ones come home alive??? Or was it random hmmmm.... infact there is countless things like that involving different religions, why would your christian god answer an islamic prayer? Its all coincidence and belief that there was divine intervention.

If all prayers came true, what kind of undisciplined lives would we live? What parent would ever give their children everything they wanted because it's the children who knows best, and not the parent?

Thats not a very good counter argument. When you say latch on to difficult ideas you mean ideas that don't stand up to scrutiny but you'll believe them anyway becuase they give a nice answer.

You're assuming that my counterargument means something that it doesn't. Having faith in difficult ideas (i.e. the resurrection) gives spirituality substance. Is it a nice answer? Have you ever considered the possibility that some answers aren't so nice (i.e. love thy enemies) but holds weight not only in a spiritual sense, but also in a secular, moral sense?

[Bioture]

I tend to agree with what Feuerbach, Marx, and Nietzsche have said about religion: that man is self suffcient, but weaker people project this idea of god to help them overcome pain.

If those three people were still alive, I would probably concur.

[ZeUs!!]

I doubt they died through idiocy

[Bioture]

I doubt they died through idiocy

I doubt they lived with a sense of peace.

[ZeUs!!]

That bears no relevance to your previous post

[404 Not Found]

So does Christianity begin with accepting Jesus?

I am curious, as Christianity dates back hundreds and hundreds of years before Christ! The Egyptian Coptic Church for example, does not hold Jesus as what some call "Lord & Savior". How do you answer to this? There needs to be an answer? Why should I accpt Christ if one cannot even tell me why Christianity is older than Christ and many of the Churches pre datingChrist do not even acknowledge him as what the Born Agains see?

Can you tell me why????

I just love when people say Jesus died for your sins..well he didn't die for my sins, thats for sure...if he did, he was a sucker!

If Jesus was alive today and carried on like he did back then, he'd be locked away in a looney bin! In fact I think almost every insane assylum must have one or two people claiming to be an alien or Jesus.

And to paraphrase Rodney Dangerfield:

Love thy neigbor as you love thyself. Am I supposed to jerk him off too?

[Bioture]

That bears no relevance to your previous post

Like you would know something about relevance. I'll see you on juice chat.

[Bioture]

So does Christianity begin with accepting Jesus?

I am curious, as Christianity dates back hundreds and hundreds of years before Christ! The Egyptian Coptic Church for example, does not hold Jesus as what some call "Lord & Savior". How do you answer to this? There needs to be an answer? Why should I accpt Christ if one cannot even tell me why Christianity is older than Christ and many of the Churches pre datingChrist do not even acknowledge him as what the Born Agains see?

Can you tell me why????

If I told you or led you in the right direction, would you really think about it, or have you made up your mind already?

Check out www.loveyah.com

Don't worry about the apocalyptic part, just read the stuff that has to do with "in the beginning"

[404 Not Found]

No thanks Bio...obvioulsy you cannot in your own words explain why christianity dates back prior to Christ and why The Egyptian Coptics do not believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

If you had known, you could have decribed it yourself, rather than linked it.

I was not born a Christian myself, but work in my field with many the orthodox in building their churches. If you cannot tell me why in your own words, than you do not know! F'n url inks...lol
Anyone can do that

[Pressure Drop]

what authority? Its just as valid as your belief in religion. Written religion makes little sense and has many flaws that are bridged by human will to believe rather than sense or logic. They have been created, changed and died out as time has moved on, there are many different religions that contradict each other. How can it be right?
Simlarly i'm Pressure Drop (well not really obviously thats not my real name) How can i be wrong???


Anyway your prayer thing.

If all prayers came true, what kind of undisciplined lives would we live? What parent would ever give their children everything they wanted because it's the children who knows best, and not the parent?

If you want to use a parent anology
Why would a parent favour one child over another?

Anyways this reminds me of a synopsis of a book review i was reading in a magazine.
It was about paranormal things but you can apply it here to prayer too.

(tracked it down as the magazine has a web site )

I strongly agree with the authors that many ordinary phenomena are regarded as extraordinary because most of us lack an intuitive understanding of probability and statistics. For instance, if we were to guess the probability that an individual, on any particular night, dreams of an aeroplane crash, we might come up with a number between one in a few thousand and one in a million. On any given night, therefore, perhaps between 60 and 6000 people in the UK dream of such an event. So far, entirely unsurprising. But if a catastrophic air accident does occur in the day following the one night in my life that I dream of a plane crash, this statistically insignificant event may give me an unshakeable, lifelong conviction that I have experienced a precognitive dream. This theme is explored effectively and at some length in the chapter entitled "Amazing coincidences".

For me that is the explanation that your prayer has any affect with what happens to others. However as i've said there is a healing affect from positive mental attitude as stress hormones etc depress the immune system so faith and prayer could provide this as an aid in recovery and responding to treatment.

NOw if your doing shitloads of prayers under the expectation that they won't come true as god doesen't grant all prayers and some do come true your going to think it was finaly your prayer being answered.
But i tell you what why don't you do the unselfish prayer of praying for world peace every night before oyu go to bed and see if it comes true ...

[Bioture]

No thanks Bio...obvioulsy you cannot in your own words explain why christianity dates back prior to Christ and why The Egyptian Coptics do not believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

If you had known, you could have decribed it yourself, rather than linked it.

I was not born a Christian myself, but work in my field with many the orthodox in building their churches. If you cannot tell me why in your own words, than you do not know! F'n url inks...lol
Anyone can do that

If I did wouldn't I be talking to a brick wall? It's not a simple answer, you know. I find it funny that a intelligent person such as yourself could side with a fictional book on something as controversial as the gnostic bibles, but refuses to even consider the possibility that maybe your "truths" are also debatable?

[Bioture]

what authority? Its just as valid as your belief in religion. Written religion makes little sense and has many flaws that are bridged by human will to believe rather than sense or logic. They have been created, changed and died out as time has moved on, there are many different religions that contradict each other. How can it be right?
Simlarly i'm Pressure Drop (well not really obviously thats not my real name) How can i be wrong???

But you didn't answer my question. You can keep attacking my religion all you want, but my question is still, who are you (in the microcosm of this universie) and what authority do you have to make judgments on the sensibility of religious and spiritual matters?

If you want to use a parent anology
Why would a parent favour one child over another?

My belief is, not a single sheep will be lost. For example, why do you say "favor one child over another?" Do you believe that my God, whom you don't believe in, has only a limited amount of time/love/concern, and therefore not everyone is Christian?

NOw if your doing shitloads of prayers under the expectation that they won't come true as god doesen't grant all prayers and some do come true your going to think it was finaly your prayer being answered.
But i tell you what why don't you do the unselfish prayer of praying for world peace every night before oyu go to bed and see if it comes true ...

Just because a prayer is answered, it doesn't mean your requests will be fulfilled. If God says no, or better yet, wait, would you shun him as an ineffectual God with limits, or would you trust that He probably knows more about you than you think?

When your little brother or cousin asks for help in something you know they're capable of, would it be better to do it for them, or let them figure it out themselves while you cheer them on?