United 93

[Kolar]

gulf war 1991
iraq war 2003

where is the "more than 20 year" gap here, i don't see it

I don't know if biological/chemical weapons were used in the gulf war but 1980- that's where the 20 year gap begins from what Gen posted, either way these weapons were not found after the second gulf war. It doesn't matter anyways, you guys are aguring samantics and this debate has gone on since 2001. The justifcation has switched at least 3-4 times after since attempts to find any WMDs has failed. I had no problem with going to war with Iraq only if it is based on fact, logic and was not a unilateral decision that bypasses the UN. My main point had nothing to do with any of this, all I wanted was Izor and Co. to understand that people from outside the US and even North America have the right to say whatever they want on this issue and that their thoughts on this are not less valid for living somewhere else. If this is to be a us Vs. Them issue for Americans (i.e Democracy & Freedom Vs. Anarchy, terorrist ect..) and they expect us to actually do something about it then it's probably best not to devalue our opinion.

Now can we please stay on topic here, it's about a film, talk to other people about that. I personally feel it was in bad taste to produce a film this earily but if you don't like it don't go see it and make your displeasure heard.

[Chao.]

Weren't there several movies made about 9/11 hardly a year after it happened?
(Maybe not exactly that time frame, but it was definitely a couple of years before this movie)

[Izor]

This most certainly is a US vs world issue, as soon as you start making up bullshit that 9/11 wasnt directed as an attack toward America

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Weren't there several movies made about 9/11 hardly a year after it happened?
(Maybe not exactly that time frame, but it was definitely a couple of years before this movie)

People also aren't taking into account that films were made about the Pearl Harbor attack a short while after that happened, too. I agree with the above sentiment that if you don't like it, you don't have to support it.

We have the luxury of living in a country with (albeit limited) free speech and will. If people want to make movies about events, more power to them--you don't have to support it if you don't want to. But to say that they can't because you feel it's "too soon" is a little selfish.

[Troll King]

This most certainly is a US vs world issue, as soon as you start making up bullshit that 9/11 wasnt directed as an attack toward America

Two things:

one: your anti-Canada response came way before that was even brought up; and
two: you took that argument out of context. When you quoted first quoted Kolar saying that, you left out the rest of what he said that explained his position.

What Kolar meant was that it was more than just an attack on American soil or American people, it was an attack on the values that America stands for, values that resonate with people from other countries, which is why they also feel emotionally invested in the tragedy. Now, I don't think he said it the best way he could have, and other countries didn't quite feel as much pain as he seemed to imply, but his position still justified the right for those people to talk about 9/11 which you seem dead-set against. The truth is somewhere between both of your stances, but yours was more extreme than his was.

[returnoftheapt]

[Sarien]

There was compelling evidence for their existence (whether it was embellished I don't know) but the international community wanted to rely on weapons inspectors instead. If the world knew they didn't have nuclear weapons why would they want to have weapons inspectors go there?

There were weapons inspectors there.

They didn't find anything at all in the time allotted, and asked for more time to continue searching.

Bush said no, despite the number of people that wanted the search to continue.

Then later when none were still found, it magically became about deposing Saddam.

[Izor]

Two things:

one: your anti-Canada response came way before that was even brought up; and
two: you took that argument out of context. When you quoted first quoted Kolar saying that, you left out the rest of what he said that explained his position.

What Kolar meant was that it was more than just an attack on American soil or American people, it was an attack on the values that America stands for, values that resonate with people from other countries, which is why they also feel emotionally invested in the tragedy. Now, I don't think he said it the best way he could have, and other countries didn't quite feel as much pain as he seemed to imply, but his position still justified the right for those people to talk about 9/11 which you seem dead-set against. The truth is somewhere between both of your stances, but yours was more extreme than his was.

My 'stance' is that Canadians shouldnt be talking about this like it was an attack to them, as they seem to think judging by the forum posts I've seen from you people. Attacking the WTC makes sense that it's an international affair, and I do understand how people might assume that it was an attack to us and a message to our allies. However, the WTC was not the only attack that they tried to get off, so at that point it is pretty obvious that they're just attacking us.

My point also is that Canada is not a direct target of any terrorist acts. You guys playing victim would be like me talking to israeli players on here whining about how bad terrorism is. 9/11 sure was a horrible act, but we still havent faced anything near as bad as they do every day. You also do not stand for the same things that we do. Canada is against us with a good deal of our foreign policy, such as how we play world police. Sure you send in like 100 troops to 'help' us, but thats just part of our master-slave relationship. Saying that you stand for the same things that we do is not only a slap to our face, but a slap to your own as you're pretty much saying you agree with what the bush administration is currently doing, which I know you don't. Point is, I say you canadians and euros cant even talk about this subject cause it really hasnt sunk into you yet. You can comprehend the story of this movie just fine, and feel bad about it, but the impact that 9/11 had on you the day is literally nothing compared to those of an American's. In fact I can still remember that day very clearly, from 2nd period history on to getting sent home early to spend time with our families and learn about what had happened when we got there (the teachers didnt want to make anyone panic by saying what happened, but by the tension we knew it was big). I'm sure that day was just another headline in your news at the end of the night.

[Troll King]

I actually sat in front of my TV watching the news coverage. When I drove to school later that morning and saw the flags flying at half mast, I pulled over and cried, knowing the enormity of what happened. It was more than just another headline.

As for Canada not being a target of terrorist acts, we were named among other countries by Osama Bin Laden as his enemies, and every one of them except us has already been hit. We are very much a target; it's not a matter of if, but when.

Like I said, things aren't quite the way Kolar stated it, but things are closer to that than the "only Americans are allowed to mourn" stance that you are taking. Stop thinking in such extreme us and them, with us or against us binaries and maybe you won't come across as being such an ass. We aren't playing "victim" the way you placed it, but under a certain context that you are STILL ignoring. You're the one who first stated that we had no investment whatsover in 9/11 and therefore have no right to talk. All we have said is that we do have some attachment, and we have repeatedly said that it still doesn't compare to what you guys are facing, but we still have enough to feel something and to comment on the issues. Nowhere did we say that we are hurting more than you are or that we were affected just as badly as you were. Your stance is that the impact on us is ZERO. All we have said is that it isn't, and you overreact by equating that to being greater than how it affected the States.

Stop thinking in such binarisms like "with us or against us", "aren't a victim, or as much a victim as we are", "not American, therefore not important". Quit thinking in such extreme terms.

[Lucon]

uh.. before i post anything, just wanna warn people that this thread might to into one hell of a controversial debate. just control yourself abit

United 93, a movie about what happened on United Airline Flight 93 on 9/11.

isn't it a tard bit early to make a movie about 9/11 already? IMO, 9/11 is one of those incident that Hollywood should stay the hell away from. Documentaries are fine, but movies are a big no no. Cause this will just be another one of those 'American Hero' movies. "We are american, we are heroes. we will save the day!" Last thing 9/11 and the victims of it need was some actors/director who know jackshit about what actually happened dramatize the event.

Also, how can it be based on a true event when no one really knows what happened on that plane? Blackbox recorded conversations in the cockpit, but it did not record the series of actions that happened. Pretty fuked up if you'd call this movie based on true story

IN MY OPINION, WANK WANK WANK

[Squeezer]

saw it today at the matinee. It was pretty good. I totally saw the ending coming. SPOILER: THEY ALL DIE IN THE END!

[returnoftheapt]

saw it today at the matinee. It was pretty good. I totally saw the ending coming. SPOILER: THEY ALL DIE IN THE END!

lololol

[Hydride]

uh.. before i post anything, just wanna warn people that this thread might to into one hell of a controversial debate. just control yourself abit

United 93, a movie about what happened on United Airline Flight 93 on 9/11.

isn't it a tard bit early to make a movie about 9/11 already? IMO, 9/11 is one of those incident that Hollywood should stay the hell away from. Documentaries are fine, but movies are a big no no. Cause this will just be another one of those 'American Hero' movies. "We are american, we are heroes. we will save the day!" Last thing 9/11 and the victims of it need was some actors/director who know jackshit about what actually happened dramatize the event.

Also, how can it be based on a true event when no one really knows what happened on that plane? Blackbox recorded conversations in the cockpit, but it did not record the series of actions that happened. Pretty fuked up if you'd call this movie based on true story

They already had a movie made, it was aired on A & E about a month ago
it was pretty good in capturing the sorrow, and I believe it had the same name as the new movie right now

[Liquid Blue]

those must have been the trailers I had seen, for the AandE movie then.

[Hydride]

Heh yeah, it's pretty sad.. Saying you are going to die to your parents over the phone