Israel / Lebanon Shit storm

[Sarien]

The only people who benefit from peace are the terrorists

You know, I only just now figured out what mystifies me about you. With such a healthy of ration of shit you are ready to give forum mods, trench wars mods, twl ops, virtually any figure around you with any seemingly small amount of authoritative position, how in the hell do you manage to post something like what I quoted without questioning it, or even better, your head exploding? And you'll do it over anything or everything. You'll talk yourself blue in the fucking face over which usage of jew is acceptable versus anti-semitic, but you just take it as a goddamned given that "the terrorists" are out there and "they're gonna git ya".

"The" Terrorists, just like "The" Boogeyman. The sheer amount of shit that can be pawned off on people today and they just swallow it whole, amazes me.

[Izor]

knew al qaeda was a fairytale

[404 Not Found]

In regards to Afghanistan. This country is a problem all together. Heroin production has never been larger than it has been since the Taliban was removed and the U.S and UN Forces turn a blind eye.

BTW...The Korean War & Vietnam where also not considered wars! They where known as Police Actions to keep the peace...um ok...but Afghanistan is not a war...come here to Philly and tell the Kid that lives down the street from me missing his leg that it was not war!

I am just amazed that the Arab nations have not got together in the condemnation of these terrorist organizations. They all seem to be so quick on the U.S. blame with the region, yet they have nothing to offer but criticism. Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE and so on do absolutely nothing to help solidify the Arab nations. If they felt as strong as the words that have come from these nations, perhaps a lot of the problems of today in this region would not happen.

Yet still to this day in Saudi Arabia, they teach in the schools that all Christians & Jews are their enemies. Hmm...get um at a young age and start from there. Just as bad as the bias that comes from the West about all Arabs being terrorists.

So looking at this in a different perspective, if Israel just ignored Hezbollah and the Palestinian actions of which led up to this conflict, do you think all would be all nice and happy? NO

Would the constant terrorist activities be deterred if ignored? NO

Would other Arab nations, as mentioned above, take an active effort in helping Israel & Lebanon with the Hezbollah problem? NO

As long as Israel takes a hit and the terrorism did not originate from their country, its ok, because it's just Israel and it is common elementary school teachings in the region to teach hate against them and all western countries.

I do not hate these people nor would I preach it, but history of the past decades sure as hell points the finger that there is no cohesiveness amongst the other Arab nations except that they do not like Israel.

The U.S. should allow Militias now to run towns in the States and control our borders here since it is deemed a globally ok thing to do. NOT

If Lebanon had such a problem, why did they not deal with this earlier and or look for outside support in ousting Hezbollah from the country? I have no answer, yet the Lebanese had no problem in ignoring them and at the same time creating what some call the Paris of the Middle East with the night clubs and fine dining. Hmm…seems like the Lebanese government and its people didn’t give a shit about Hezbollah until Israel made them notice it was in their own back yard. A little to late!

[genocidal]

I think you missed the point of what I was calling a war. I don't care what the US Congress says (the Korean Conflict was as much of a war as any other) the point was that an international war is fought between two nations; which is no longer the case with the advent of terrorism. Sure governments can look the other way or even support terrorism but we're still not at war with the entire country (as is the case in Afghanistan).

It doesn't matter what amputees think is a war or a conflict - the point is that people will say "THIS IS A WAR!!!" in response to people criticizing them for killing civilians that have nothing to do with either side.

Killing civilians is always a fucked up but it's one thing to air raid Munich in World War II and it's quite another to bomb a Lebanese village on the Letani river.

[Izor]

Killing civilians is always a fucked up but it's one thing to air raid Munich in World War II and it's quite another to bomb a Lebanese village on the Letani river.

Well it depends on the circumstances around bombing that village. Terrorists will sometimes shoot rockets at israel from small villages so what do you expect them to do? Israelis during this conflict have hardly been shooting up civilians with no reason to do so, so im inclined to believe that was the case with bombing that village. On the other side of this, you arent whining about their opposition targeting hospitals and other civilian buildings. How the hell can you expect someone to put up with that shit?

[Squeezer]

Well it depends on the circumstances around bombing that village. Terrorists will sometimes shoot rockets at israel from small villages so what do you expect them to do? Israelis during this conflict have hardly been shooting up civilians with no reason to do so, so im inclined to believe that was the case with bombing that village. On the other side of this, you arent whining about their opposition targeting hospitals and other civilian buildings. How the hell can you expect someone to put up with that shit?

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." Ghandi

[Izor]

"getting shot at and not returning fire leaves me dead" - Me

[genocidal]

Don't get me wrong, I feel for Israel. I just think they're fucking up a fucked up situation. And it could be because they've been fucked with for too long and are too fucked up now to see any way out of a fucked up situation besides fucking shit up.

I need a bigger vocabularly.

[Vykromond]

Messed!

[CrvenBan]

Open your eyes people, you're missing The Puppet Master hiding in the shadows, little to the right

Military and Economic Aid

Since 1976, Israel had been the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance. According to a November 2001 Congressional Research Service report, Israel: U.S. Foreign Assistance, U.S. aid to Israel in the last half century has totaled a whopping $81.3 billion.

In recent years, Israel remains the top recipient of U.S. military and economic assistance. The most commonly cited figure is $3 billion a year, with about $1.8 billion a year in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) grants from the Department of Defense and an additional $1.2 billion a year in Economic Support Funds (ESF) from the Department of State. In the last decade FMF grants to Israel have totaled $18.2 billion. In fact, 17% of all U.S. foreign aid is earmarked for Israel.

For 2003, the Bush administration is proposing that Israel receive $2.76 billion in foreign aid, with $2.1 billion in FMF and $600 million in ESF. An additional $28 million will go to Israel for the purchase U.S. manufactured counter terrorism equipment.

Weapons Sales and Grants

Israel is one of the United State’s largest arms importers. In the last decade, the United States has sold Israel $7.2 billion in weaponry and military equipment, $762 million through Direct Commercial Sales (DCS), more than $6.5 billion through the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program.

In fact, Israel is so devoted to U.S. military hardware that it has the world's largest fleet of F-16s outside the U.S., currently possessing more than 200 jets. Another 102 F-16s are on order from Lockheed Martin.

The United States has also underwritten Israel’s domestic armaments industry, by giving:

$1.3 billion to develop the Lavi aircraft (cancelled)
$625 million to develop and deploy the Arrow anti-missile missile (an ongoing project)
$200 million to develop the Merkava tank (operative); the latest version, the Merkava 4, uses a German V-12 diesel engine produced under license in the U.S. by General Dynamics
$130 million to develop the high-energy laser anti-missile system (ongoing).
While overall aid to Israel is slated to decrease over the next five years, military aid will increase significantly. One of President Clinton’s last acts was to sign an agreement with Israel, phasing out the ESF by 2008. At the same time, FMF funds to Israel will increase $60 million each year, reaching $2.4 billion by 2008.

Free Weapons to Israel

The U.S. also gives Israel weapons and ammunition as part of the Excess Defense Articles (EDA) program, providing these articles completely free of charge. Between 1994-2001 the U.S. provided many weapons through this program, including:

64,744 M-16A1 rifles
2,469 M-204 grenade launchers
1,500 M-2 .50 caliber machine guns
.30 caliber, .50 caliber, and 20mm ammunition

http://worldpolicy.org/projects/arms...ael050602.html

It's safe to assume that, in the name of fairness, US is providing all the other countries in the area with similar aid.

This agression could be stopped by a simple phonecall because we all know who's in charge there (note how similar to Iraq war this one is, in it's starting), but I guess there is still to gain in tearing mid east apart. I bet a lot of oil's gonna seep through the rifts

[genocidal]

It's not similar to Iraq at all...

[gran guerrero]

sigh how come all the cool people like ghandi and MLK died before my time

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I see partially where Crven is coming from, if not more. If I hadn't read the following quote, I might not've.

Israel’s army chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, said the military would conduct “limited ground operations as much as needed in order to harm the terror that harms us” — leaving it unclear how deep and how powerful the Israeli punch into Lebanon would be.

“We will fight terror wherever it is because if we do not fight it, it will fight us. If we don’t reach it, it will reach us,” he told a nationally televised news conference.

That sounds horribly familiar.

[genocidal]

Yeah but the actual conflict isn't the same situation at all. They were actually attacked; my Afghanistan War comparison is way more valid. All this proves is that people aren't creative with their propaganda.

[GoldenPlums]

I was a lot less worried about this situation before I heard Condoleezza Rice's parting comments as she left on her 'diplomatic' mission.

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2006/69331.htm

After saying about three times that she doesn't support a ceasefire just yet, she comes out with -

What we're seeing here, in a sense, is the growing -- the birth pangs of a new Middle East and whatever we do we have to be certain that we're pushing forward to the new Middle East not going back to the old one.

I mean what a fucking time to say something like that?? It's unbelievable. Sounds to me like someone who has a seriously misguided view of the situation and a very dangerous plan. Rather than trying to sort out the hotheads from both sides, and minimise the indiscriminate killing of civillians, how about we just hit the hornets' nest a little bit harder.

This situation is a prime example of political leaders being the lowest form of life, when essentially most people have an uncanny ability to get along with each other day-to-day no matter where they're from.