Another shooter incident at Va Tech???

[genocidal]

Campus police at my school are for real. Most of them are trained officers going to school for free/reduced by working on their force but some of them are just trained officers that prefer campus duty. They don't have jurisdiction beyond campus where I'm from but that's a jurisdictional thing with city police and sheriffs, not really a knock on their skill.

Sure most of them are green (since they're going to school) but they're all armed (unlike rent-a-cops) and graduated from a police academy.

All that said, I do agree with Face that their area of expertise is not murder, clearly. I'm sure this will get turned over to others more equipped soon anyway. Did you guys read some where that campus police are assuming 100% of the investigation? I mean I've seen where FBI and Homeland Security are already involved.

[PerfectCircle]

I am freaking speechless. Va resident. Friends at VT. God this is horrible.

[Facetious]

Campus police at my school are for real. Most of them are trained officers going to school for free/reduced by working on their force but some of them are just trained officers that prefer campus duty. They don't have jurisdiction beyond campus where I'm from but that's a jurisdictional thing with city police and sheriffs, not really a knock on their skill.

Sure most of them are green (since they're going to school) but they're all armed (unlike rent-a-cops) and graduated from a police academy.

All that said, I do agree with Face that their area of expertise is not murder, clearly. I'm sure this will get turned over to others more equipped soon anyway. Did you guys read some where that campus police are assuming 100% of the investigation? I mean I've seen where FBI and Homeland Security are already involved.

Other organizations got involved later, but at the time decisions were being made regarding what to do about the first murders, campus police was running the operation, and that's what I'm talking about.

The campus police I've mostly seen aren't green, but rather, fatter and older than regular police.

[Squeezer]

At my college, we have Public Safety whose job it is to pretty much hand out tickets and bust kids for drinking/smoking weed in their room.

University Police on the other hand deal with everything from Big drug deals, to rapes, to suicide attempts (trust me on this one) and everything in between.

I have a feeling if they found any body on my campus, student or not, they'd shut down school. And if there were shots fired in one of the dorms.....We'd be home right now.

[phata$$]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HNrBd4kKMg

Poor quality video of the shooting, you really can't make anything out clearly. Honestly, I could make out Saddam's hanging better than this. Fucking cellphones.

WOW. WTF. There's really no debate about this. Just some stupid idiot resolving problems with his trigger-happy finger. I'm not sure what I would have done if I was there during all this. Any loss of human life is a tragedy and I pray for the families of the students killed in the shooting. Such a damn, damn shame.

[PUNK rock]

I agree with a lot of what you said except I do have to say that I've gone to a college before where the campus police were legitimate police. They had jurisdiction beyond just the campus and were well trained professionals. If something like that ever happened at my previous college I'd trust them with the investigation. Maybe d1st0rt can clarify whether they've got rent-a-cops or not.

At OSU, the cops don't even deal with any type of parking violation. There's a whole separate 'meter maid' type of organization. I think the cops get paid extra due to the conditions at a large university, though their jurisdiction only covers the campus itself and not the surrounding area.

Very sad event indeed. I'm no fan of the news media and this furthers my despise for them. Who's to blame? Time will tell. I will say that the VT police chief isn't the brightest apple in the basket.

EDIT: No disrespect, but CNN called the event 'a holocaust'. Please use a dictionary before using words, assholes.

[Aquatiq]

was looking at other forums to see what other people had to say.. found this on the "Flat Earth" forums volcs posted a while back. pardon the size.

[D1st0rt]

That said, I cannot imagine how anyone can justify not coming up with an effective plan to deal with the threat that there was a gunman on the loose that had just killed two students. One of the student interviews (with the girl in the classroom where 20 people were shot) that was repeated ad nauseum said that the gunman peeked in the class "and it was sketch". However, none of the students in that classroom had any idea that there had been a murder on campus, because the administration took over two hours to send out an e-mail. The meeting of the school leaders met at 8:25 (over an hour after the shooting) and it took them over an hour to decide to send out an e-mail. In my mind, this is inexcusable.

The gunman had not "just" killed two students, as I understand two students were shot who later died (one fairly quickly). The building that it took place in was promptly locked down. RAs went around in the area knocking on doors telling people in the direct vicinity. By the time it would have taken to notify the entire student body, everyone would be in transit to their classes, going towards the academic buildings. The 1st incident happened in a residential building, so cancelling classes would not only cause a mass panic but it would send everyone back to where the initial deal went down. Even if they had sent out an email at 7:15 some people coming to campus would not have received it because they would have already been on their way to class. The incident seemed to be fairly isolated and they had no reason to believe anything else was going to happen, so in that situation at the time the safest course of action was to continue forward with students going to class. You also have to remember that there are another like 25,000 students here for which there was no perceived danger. As for looking sketch, of course you look back and say "hey man, that WAS sketchy" but in schools people walk by and look in classrooms all the time.

I have no doubt that the police were doing the best they can, but I think there's a larger issue at play. How can you justify having what are essentially rent-a-cops running a murder investigation? Every school I've been to, all campus police do is hand out parking tickets and drinking citations. How can a police chief who spends his time overseeing, at worst, investigations into petty drug deals, be expected to run a murder investigation?

Virginia Tech Police is legit. They are a fully accredited Municipal Law Enforcement Agency. In the past several years there haven't been any murders because that's not the kind of place this is (I think there was one case of vehicular manslaughter last year) but they are still fully trained to deal with this kind of thing. Also, with pretty much anything bad happening on campus the state police get involved quickly, usually bringing ATF along with them.

It seems to me that when there is a murder on campus, classes should be cancelled if the gunman has not been apprehended. Period. If the students were being kept in classrooms to remain safe, something should have been done to make sure the students actually WERE safe. The building that the second batch of murders were committed in had locks on the doors. Nobody locked them. Had students been let out of class, perhaps the gunman would have had a chance to shoot some people, but there is no way he could find a group of 25 people trapped in the same place. Had the students been informed in time that there was a murder and that they should be on the lookout for suspicious behavior, perhaps a member of that German class would have thought the behavior of the gunman peeking in the first time suspicious enough to say something about it.

I don't know where you're getting your information about Norris, but I have classes in there all the time and it is old as shit. The chains they were referring to on the doors ARE the locking mechanism used on a day to day basis. Again, we can sit here and second guess all day but I still say that it wasn't a bad decision at 7:30 to let people go to class. I left my room at 7:45 to go to class basically where that cell phone video was taken (Hancock 100, the rounded part right above Norris) and I still have no qualms with their judgment. This is a big place, and they know how to run it far better than you or I do.

Of course it's the fault of the gunman, and of course the police and administration weren't trying to get more people murdered, but it seems to me that the campus police acted, well, like campus police, and had they acted like real police, deaths could have been prevented.

This is a big point of contention I have with all the people talking about this. Yes they could have done a better job, which is ALWAYS true looking back. Nothing you can do about it, shit happens. Changing details of the situation still does not negate the fact that this guy was going to kill a lot of people. Sure the number may vary one way or another but people were still going to die. When Morva was running around campus, people were all congregating together in buildings like Squires, our student center. If he was in there instead of Norris that figure would have been much higher. Hypothetically say you even prevented him from going through with it today. He still has all of those bullets for a reason and can go right back tomorrow and try again.


The main thing I am trying to get at here is that this was a tragedy. Nobody could have predicted it. If people were expecting it, it wouldn't have been a tragedy. They keep saying on the news something of this magnitude has never happened before. Sometimes we have to stop trying to find things to blame and just accept that it happened, it was going to happen and there was really very little we could do to prevent it from happening without sacrificing the very thing it is we are protecting. This is the cost of a free society, I have no desire to live in a police state however "safe" it may be.

[D1st0rt]

To further that, here's an excellent writeup from the "Hokies In Support of Steger" Facebook group

This is not President Steger’s fault.

Regardless of the failures or mistakes made in the reaction of both the Administration and the VT Police Department today, the most important fact to remember is the randomness of today’s tragic events. What happened on April 16th, 2007, could have taken place on any college campus in the United States, and to assume that the specific results or the timeline of events would have been changed in another university setting is irresponsibly presumptuous.

I don't intend to argue or make claims about what could have or should have been done to limit the loss of life, it is clear to everyone looking back that various, more drastic, measures could have been taken. However, the ONLY cause of the shootings on campus today was a single individual who had a strong enough desire to end his own life, and in doing so wished to cause as much collateral damage as possible.

This group is for those people that believe in the essentially random, albeit tragic, quality of today's events; and furthermore, that the Virginia Tech administration should not be lynched in the process of seeking answers for the families of victims and those affected. The political and popular motivation behind the need to identify reasons and point fingers is not a sufficient cause to abandon President Steger and the rest of the Administration.

If it is found further along that certain decisions were made that would entail gross negligence or excessive risk, then perhaps it will become important to reevaluate the ability of those in charge. It must always be kept in mind, however, that on matters like these, the Administration clearly acts in the interests of the students, and with their safety in mind.

They were called on to react to a situation with limited knowledge of the circumstances and with the constraints of reality in mind, and it is unfortunate that judgment on that decision is so easily made after the fact by students, faculty, citizens and most of all, the press.

Don’t allow the administration of Virginia Tech to be singled out and blamed for the malicious and violent acts of an individual.

[Fit of Rage]

D1s I created a RIP group on facebook. PM me your name so I can add you?

[genocidal]

I created one too, PM me and you can join it.

"Christians praying to the Christ who is Lord in Heaven for the salvation of the souls of the sweet victims at the VA Tech shooting and giving money to the Church that is the body of the Lord Christ on earth that is the essence of the Son Jesus the Christ who is Father and Son in Heaven and Lord on earth" is the name, ask for an invite!

[Liquid Blue]

As I read through the SA topic I find some stuff that is worth sharing, one of the goons had a brother that was in one of the rooms where the gunman shot down kids. Here are some of the convo's the goon had with his brother later on in the day-

sugad posted:

Aim convo with my brother:

ME (1:08:03 PM): so he came into your class?
Bro(1:08:08 PM): yeah
Bro(1:08:17 PM): i didnt think there was any way id live
Bro(1:08:52 PM): he finally left and me and the one other guy that wasnt shot ran to the door and held it shut
Bro(1:09:04 PM): and he tried to come back in and was shooting through the door
me(1:09:27 PM): holy shit
me(1:09:48 PM): what kind of gun was it
Bro(1:09:55 PM): pistol
Me(1:09:52 PM): and did he line people up
Bro(1:10:08 PM): no just shooting at people on the ground

sugad posted:

Some of these reports of automatics and shotguns may be coming from people who are shaken up. The police are carrying automatics for sure, and most likely shotguns.

More from my bro:

me(1:11:34 PM): do you think it was random
bro(1:12:57 PM): i dont know
Me(1:14:03 PM): so what did you do then
bro(1:14:21 PM): i just started helping people that were bleeding
Me(1:14:39 PM): my god
Me(1:17:17 PM): and then what
Me(1:17:25 PM): sorry if you dont want to talk about it
Me(1:17:33 PM): everyone wants to know what happened
bro(1:18:15 PM): its fine
Me(1:18:40 PM): so did the cops arrive quickly or did you call them or what
bro(1:19:08 PM): yeah
bro(1:19:38 PM): we called

MORE FROM MY BROTHER:

Bro (1:32:09 PM): well a girl wasnt shot
Bro (1:32:16 PM): and then the guy was a guy that sat near me
Bro (1:32:21 PM): but then he got hit in the arm
Bro (1:32:29 PM): when he was shooting through the door

Looking at the photos on Reuters depressed the shit out of me, I don't know if it's because it's in Va, or because so many people died but I'm feeling really bad in regards to this situation more than Columbine or any of the other school shootings. I don't know what to say Distort, to express how bad I feel for you all down there

[Galleleo]

Aqua.. why is that in Dutch (besides the typing off the people)?

[Noah]

I just read in a norweigan newspaper that same fanatical parents are trying to get both the president and the police chief fired. Untill this point, I did my usual with bad worldwide news, I try to ignore it and don't let it affect me.

John Shourds is yelling out to the media that they fucked up, and that they were too slow to react. He also tries to blame the president for the entire episode. He also claims that your campus police isn't the best and the brightest there is.

This is like blaiming a student for failing at first aid of a fellow student, and claiming that he could have done stuff a little different and that then the student would be alive.

What an arrogant fucking piece of shit asshole. Distort, you are doing it already, but get the right message across.

[Doc Flabby]

I blame it on WoW