Conspiratorially speaking seeking facts not theory

[Money]

when did tone hack heavnsents account?

[Saturn V]

when did tone hack heavnsents account?

I hacked it yesterday.

[NaiLed]

So Mantra, how's the weather in Sweden now?

We had a snowless christmas here, but right around new years eve it started to snow a wee bit, and now the ground is barely covered in snow.

Oh! And I saw a peacock yesterday!

where i used to work there were loads of the bloody things.. i hate peacocks.

[Galleleo]

I am not crying conspiracy, inside job or whatever.

But you cannot deny that a lot of questions remain. But I wont go nowhere near as far as Heavensent.

[Bioture]

ok almost done writing my rebuttal essay here...

[Voth]

:mellow:

[Zerzera]

WHeRE WERE THE LEFTOVERS OF THE PLANE ON GROUND ZERO??? I DiDNT SEE ANY!

[Zerzera]

No but serious. The pentagon couldn't be a inside job, because there is no way you get a plane that big inside of the pentagon without the security noticing. And even if they managed, how the fuck could the plane get the velocity to break through that massive ground-based concrete layer??

[paradise!]

Then how would you explain the exit hole?
Maybe the wall fell to hide the damage (or lack of) from the initial impact?

http://911exposed.org/Attack1.htm

if you watched the history channel, they had an architect actually pick apart this theory. what happened was like one of the turbine engines can off.

and also, www.zeitgeistmovie.com, this movie in the beginning talks about christianity and stuff(very interesting), second part talks about the whole deal, id suggest it to anyone who doesn't believe the conspiracy story.

[Vatican Assassin]

does anyone want to even address the fact that every video tape of the pentagon explosion disappeared? or just yell like fucking morons.

omg you have crazy theories go to hell fag? please get a brain

wutang: where do you get your information? tv? newspapers? from the air? are these better than internet for some reason? the internet is just a collection of data and opinions, some false some true, like everything else, your point is moot.

gallaleo: you have the open mind to at least allow the possibility of growth, why don't you get some balls and try to answer the questions instead of being afraid that you'll be treated like heavensent if you find anything?

paul o: everything is ironic, we got it

urmamaisfunky: if you could maybe go 3 words without calling someon a eating shittiong fuck fag you might....oh nevermind. i can respect your first argument about pentagon being strong enough to destroy the plane, but why do you have to be so hateful? do you yell at people like this irl, or just on the internet where people can't hit you in the face

bio: in that link you provide, he says that 9/11 can;t be an inside job because the people who made losse change haven't been killed. thats his answer. well, if you kill them, wouldn't it make the video more believeable than to just ignore and refute it? they are in the spotlight, loose change is already made, killing them would just add to the mystery.

epineprine: you say the wreckage is well documented, myth says well i don't see it, then you say well its obscurred and its in side the building, please show the well documented shots of the plane parts, im not getting argumentative with you, i'd honestly like to see them. what i have seen so far was one small piece on an unscraped lawn

Does anyone want to address building 7? planes are mostly air isn't going to settle this one i don't think.

It seems like a lot of people get angry and start calling 9/11 truthers names, how does this help them? if i were a judge, and one side continues to do nothing but yell at the other side without bothering to refute the evidence, i would be hard pressed to believe them.

[Epinephrine]

I'd think it would be standard practice for the government to take away all the tapes of a terrorist attack for study and evidence. Also because they don't want more people knowing exactly how the inside of the pentagon looks. Unlike the WTC, tourists weren't up and about filming the pentagon, so there are significantly less tapes to store away.

Also, there's no away I'm going to look for hours to find some tape that may or may not be online. I watched every news channel for a week after 9/11, and I do remember seeing wreckage. Personally I think I have a 'normal' view of things, and if he has a contrary opinion to public knowledge, then HE should be the one providing proof. Although since I don't actually care THAT much, he doesn't need to.

But the general idea is, if you have an idea outside of accepted knowledge the burden is on you to provide proof, not so much on the people who overwhelmingly believe accepted facts.

[Vatican Assassin]

if you say something is well documented, then you should be able to show it. all statements should be verifiable, i agree heavensents ideas need a lot more verification, but that doesn't mean the normal people are off the hook. just as an axample, copernicus was once a conspiracy theorist, and the pope never felt a need to prove what everyone knew, that the earth was at the center.

this isn't to you epi (and if you ever want to apoligize for calling me mentally deranged because i have a different opinion, that would be quickly accepted): if you are well informed enough to call heaven a fucking idiot, then you must be able to tell us why building 7 fell down, and why there is a hole in the dirt with even less wreckage than the pentagon where flight 73 supposedly fell down. even if you take out a plane with a jet figher, you're still gonna have bodies and wreckage, not everything incinerates, right?

[Kolar]

Vati no one here is an expert in physics (or any other relevant field) so most of the problems you and others find with the attacks won't be solved here. I think the rest (tapes missing ect...) can be easily explained: where in the hell are the 5 million or so "missing" or "deleted" emails at the White House? Simple answer to both: This Administration loves to keep secrets.

That doesn't mean I think they had a part in it. I think they would love nothing more then to keep some things hidden; maybe to be prideful (it was the Pentagon they hit after all) and maybe to feed this need for secrecy.

And yes Heaven is an idiot because there's absolutely no way of interacting with him on any level. The proper way to go about this is to examine the available evidence and attempt to match it up with your theory. If the evidence tells you something else scrape it and move on, don't harp on one little piece of crap that may or may not pan out in the end. The onus is also on you or whoever brings forward a theory or an idea to prove it and explain it, not on the opposing party to disprove or prove it.

[Vatican Assassin]

if you are part of an opposing party to a theory of any kind, that means you have entered the argument. if you just say "no thats not true" without saying why it isn't true, you do not have enough reason or standing to enter the argument.

don't worry, i'm not trying to solve anything, just talk, argue, discuss etc.

when evidence disappears, like kennedy's brain, if you always conclude that it is just because the government is secretive without asking why they are secretive, i wouldn't say you have gotten very far, or used your mind to its fullest capacity. i don't think hiding tapes will help the pentagon's pride much, everyone knows they got hit with their pants down, we've all seen the pentagon in flames and the WTC getting hit a million times, the pentagon is not so prideful that it would send FBI out within the hour of the attack to collect tapes from gas station in the immediate area to cover their disgrace.

we can deal with this fact in a lot of ways, and its always open to debate. but like it or not, any tape that could have shown the plane flying into the pentagon, all the hjighway cameras, the gas stations, hotels, the 83 cameras heaven talked about, they were all taken by the FBI immediatly. i will consider other reasons for this event than conspiracy, but it is at least interesting enough not to be shrugged off, or considered normal enough to call anyone who brings it up an idiot. kolar, we've awlays been cool, there's no need to call heaven names, JUST show why he's an idiot and you will always be better off.

[Kolar]

No I don't plan on it. I'm not saying "No thats not true", I'm saying you can't point at a few inconsistencies and weird events and postulate from that, that the Bush Administration had something to do with 9/11. If you bring forward something like that it's still on you to prove it, not ask those giving you and your ideas criticism to explain it. I'm not sure if that's what you are doing but I've seen little else from my scan of this thread.

I believe it would hurt the pride of the nation to see the pentagon tapes and thus the polls. It was also a military installation so it does make a little sense to remove videos of the attacks initially, but not forever. Remember the video from the WTC complex was extremely powerful. It galvanized the US so I think they were weary of releasing such powerful media to the public given the delicate political climate in the ensuing years (after Iraq...). And on some level I also believe the Bush Administration would like to keep some pieces of the attack secret. Either for a motive we can only speculate at this point on or because they are just a bunch of dicks (no pun intended) about their secrets with no real malice.


I'm ok with you too Vati

When it comes to religion & politics, no one is going to convince anyone of anything. For some people, it's not who says it, it's what is said. Sometimes morons can spew a little wisdom, but it takes the wise to see the profound truth in the mutterings of a half-wit, while others are stubbornly blind & close minded because of the fact that a half-wit said it.