Conspiratorially speaking seeking facts not theory

[Vatican Assassin]

I trust that most of us have heard of Bill Moyers?...

Recipient of the 2006 Lifetime Emmy, "Bill Moyers has devoted his lifetime to the exploration of the major issues and ideas of our time and our country, giving television viewers an informed perspective on political and societal concerns," according to the official announcement, which also noted, "the scope of and quality of his broadcasts have been honored time and again. It is fitting that the National Television Academy honor him with our highest honor – the Lifetime Achievement Award."[7] He has received well over thirty Emmys and virtually every other major television journalism prize, including a gold baton from the Dupont Journalism awards, a lifetime Peabody award, and a George Polk Career Award (his third George Polk Award) for contributions to journalistic integrity and investigative reporting. He is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Letters and has been the recipient of numerous honorary degrees.

Here is a documentary he made in the 70's which give a good understanding of how the American empire operates:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=6

[HeavenSent]

I can't believe there are people here that agree with heavensent.

I honestly have nothing positive to add to this conversation, I just want a marker for when this thread goes epic.

So says another Alex Jones robot.

And you still don't.
I guess you just needed to let everyone know that you're still around if anyone would like to join you in some mindless 'HeavenSent bashing'?

What are your thoughts surrounding 9/11? Are you in total agreement with the official story? If so, is this because you've checked all sides and have come to your own conclusions? Or is it because you don't care to know anything other than what you've just happened to hear of the official story? If it's the former, is there nothing you find suspicious?

What do you think Rumsfeld was talking about when he said flight 93 was shot down?
What do you think Condileezza was thinking when she said they never imagined a terror attack with planes flying into buildings? Isn't the Pentagon one of the most protected places in the country? Why is it, historically, the military has been able to scramble & intercept planes in less than 10 minutes, yet on 9/11 no jets did their job?
Why did Cheney give the order to stand down?
Why did president Bush say a month later at a town meeting that he saw the first plane hit the tower while in his limo,.. before he entered the school? That video wasn't given to the media to show the public until the next day. Why hasn't anyone taken accountability for the mistakes made on that day?

If you look up Osama Bin Laden on the FBI's most wanted, you'll find that 9/11 is not one of the charges against him? Why is that? Could it be that he and a bunch of radical muslims with box-cutters really weren't responsible?
Another thing: The video shown of the terrorists at the airport isn't even the airport that the planes in question left from. So why do they keep showing us that video?

Why is it, that years later, bodily fragmented remains are still being discovered on rooftops of surrounding buildings resulting from the towers coming down? How is it that the passport of one of the hijackers ended up on the street? ..when practically all else was pulverized out of existence? If the buildings just fell from the heat alone, why was so much propelled so far away? How could there be people standing at the holes where the planes entered waving for help? Wasn't it supposed to be too hot there as well? Have you seen those videos above of the engineer simulating the towers integrity? The outside walls of the towers were supports too. So why did the sides shatter to pieces? Shouldn't they have just broken off in slabs? If the towers just fell from the heat, the sides of the buildings should have just broken off in sheets where they were bolted together. That's how it should have been according to that video of the simulation. Have you ever seen a building fall that wasn't purposely demolished? Did any of them look like those on 9/11? For that matter, how many plane crashes have you seen where there was nothing left to see? ...like the crater of flight 93? Or at the Pentagon. The official story is that the plane shattered after breaking through the wall, but there was just a hole 16 ft in diameter. The whole plane couldn't have fit in that hole, then shatter from hitting the columns. But that's the official story... And if you look at the pieces, like the picture Epi posted, that's basically the only piece in all the pictures of the crash.

As I said recently, I wasn't always a 'conspiracy theorist'. I supported G.W. in his first term. I even supported him after 9/11. It's only been in the last year that I started to question his leadership.. and it's only been in the last few months or so that I've started to looking into the events of 9/11 and have become absolutely convinced that it was an inside job. I know i've brought this up before (maybe a year ago), but at the time I wasn't really sure and I didn't give it a whole lot of thought afterwards.

I've always been the kind of guy that would rather speak my mind than to worry about what people think of me for speaking. I've never claimed to be charismatic or diplomatic and many times I am sorry for what I've said. But it's not really for 'the what' as much as it is for 'the how' I said it... Because a lot of times, I could have said the same thing in a different way and have been more clear without hurting any feelings.

[Saturn V]

wat

[Cops]

^ he bears the burden of proof, lolz

[Vatican Assassin]

Earlier this month Japanese parliament discussed 911 in order to understand how it happened, and what they should do to make sure similar events can not occur in Japan. If you read the transcript you will find that they are asking some of the same questions which were brought up in this thread. It's a long transcipt, here are some excerpts:

Mr. Fujita:

Since I do not have much time I would like to ask about the suspicious information being uncovered and the doubts people world wide are having about the events of 911. Many of these doubters are very influential people. In such circumstances I believe the Japanese government, which claims the attacks were carried out by Al Qaeda, should be providing the victims families with this new information. In that context I would like to ask several questions.

First of all I would like to get all members of the committee to look at this panel and look at the pictures I have provided you with. This is concrete evidence in the form of photographs and other types of information. The first photograph has computer graphics attached to show how large the plane that hit the Pentagon was. A 757 is quite a large airplane with a width of 38 meters. So as you can see even though such a large plane hit the pentagon there is only a hole that is too small for the airplane. This is a photograph taken of firemen at work and you can also see there is no damage of the sort an airplane that large should make. I would also like you to look at the lawn in front and notice that there are no airplane parts on it. Let us now look at the third picture, which is also of the pentagon taken from a U.S. TV news report has captions that show the roof of the Pentagon is still intact. Again even though a huge airplane is supposed to have hit, there is not enough corresponding damage. Now let us move to the next photograph. Here is a photograph of a hole, as Minister Komura knows the Pentagon is a very strong building with many walls. Yet the airplane has pierced them. But as you know, airplanes are made of the lightest possible material. An airplane made of such light material could not make a hole like that. Next I would like to show a photograph of how the airplane hit the building. The airplane made a U-turn, avoiding the Defense Secretary's office and hitting the only part of the Pentagon that had been specially reinforced to withstand a bomb attack.

Also, in the middle of page five we have a comment from a U.S. airforce official. He says I have flown the two types of airplane used on 911 and I cannot believe it would be possible for someone who is flying one for the first time to be able to carry out such a maneuver. Also, as you know, they have not recovered the flight recorders from most of these 4 airplanes. Also, there were more than 80 security cameras at the Pentagon but they have refused to release almost all of the footage. In any case, as you have just seen there is no picture of the airplane or of its wreckage in any of these photographs. It is very strange that no such pictures have been shown to us.

As you know Japan's self-defense forces have their headquarters in Ichigaya. Can you imagine if an airplane hit a major city, if an hour and a half after an airplane hit New York that an airplane could hit the Pentagon? In such a situation how could our allies allow such an attack to take place. I would like the Defense Minister to answer this...

Mr. Fujita:

Since we are running out of time I would like to present a new piece of evidence. Please look at this panel. The first picture is one you see often of the two towers that were hit by hijacked airplanes. I could understand if this happened right after the airplanes hit but here we can see large piece of material flying a large distance through the air. Some flew 150 meters. You can objects flying in this picture as if there was an explosion. Here is a picture I took from a book. This lets you see how far the objects flew. The third picture is of a fireman who was involved in the rescue talking about a series of explosions in the building that sounded like a professional demolition. We cannot present video today so I have written a translation of what the fireman said. Here his is saying "it went boom boom boom like explosions were going off."

Here is something said by a Japanese research team of officials from the fire department and the construction ministry. The interviewed a Japanese survivor who said that while she was fleeing there were explosions. This testimony appears in a report prepared with the aid of the construction ministry and the fire department. Now I would like you to see the following picture. Normally it is said that the twin towers collapsed because they were hit by airplanes. However, one block away from the twin towers is building number 7. It can be seen in the following map a block away from the WTC. This building collapsed 7 hours after the WTC buildings were attacked. If I could show you a video it would be easy to understand but take a look at this photograph. This is a 47 story building that fell in this manner (He drops and object to demonstrate). The building falls in five or six seconds. It is about the same speed as an object would fall in a vacuum. This building falls like something you would see in a Kabuki show. Also if falls while keeping its shape. Remember it was not hit by an airplane. You have to ask yourself if a building could fall in that manner due to a fire after 7 hours. Here we have a copy of the 911 commission report. This is a report put out by the U.S. government in July of 2004 but this report does not mention the collapse of the building I just described. It is not mentioned at all in here (he waves the book). FEMA also issued a report but they also fail to mention this building. Many people believe, especially after seeing the story about building number 7, that something is strange. Since this is an incident where many people died people think is should be investigated.

We are running out of time but I would also like to mention the put options. Just before the 911 attacks, ie on September 6th, 7th and 8th there were put options put out on the stocks of the two airlines United and American that were hit by hijackers. There were also put options on Merril Lynch, one of the biggest WTC tenants. In other words somebody had insider information and made a fortune selling put options of these stocks. The head of Germany's Bundesbank at the time, who is equivalent to the Governor of the Bank of Japan, said there are lots of facts to prove the people involved in the terror attacks profited from insider information. He said there was lots of suspicious trading involving financial companies etc prior to the attacks. The had of the Bundesbank was willing to say this much. I would like to ask the Finance Minster about these put options. Did the government of Japan know about this, and what do you think about this? I would like to ask Finance Minister Nukaga about this.

Mr. Fujita:

I would like to ask finance specialist Mr. Asao to tell me about put options. A group of people with large amounts of money, clear insider information and financial expertise would have been necessary for such a thing to take place. Could a few terrorists in Afghanistand and Pakistan carry out such a sophisticated and large scale set of transactions? I would like to ask Mr. Asao to respond.

Keiichiro Asao:

I understand put options are a deal to sell stocks at a fixed price. In this case somebody must have had insider information to carry out such transactions because nobody could normally predict these airlines would have their planes hijacked. So, I believe this was certainly a case of insider trading.

Mr. Fujita:

Prime Minister, you were Chief Cabinet Secretary at the time and as somebody has already noted, this was an incident of the sort that humanity had never previously experienced. Also, there appears to be a lot more information about this incident coming out now than came out in the months after the attacks. Now that we are an internet and visual society, this information is being made public so if we look at the situation now, the whole starting point for these two laws , the start of the war on terror itself, as you have seen from the information I have presented, has not been properly investigated or analyzed. So I do not believe the government has acted properly by investigating this incident or asking the U.S. government for an explanation. So far we have not started refueling U.S. ships yet so I think we need to go back to the beginning and not just simply and blindly trust the U.S. government explanation and indirect information provided by them. There were too many victims so I think we need to start again from the beginning. We need to ask who the real victims of this war on terrorism are. I think the citizens of the world are its victims. Here in Japan we have disappearing pensions and disappearing records about victims of Hepatitis C contaminated blood but everything I have presented on facts and confirmable evidence. Let us talk about the vanishing black boxes, vanishing airplanes and vanishing remains. Also lots of the remains of these buildings have disappeared. Even FEMA says that prevented it from carrying out a proper investigation. We need to look at this evidence and ask ourselves what the war on terrorism really is. I can see the ministers nodding in agreement but I would like to ask Prime Minister Fukuda. Please look at me. I have heard that when you were Chief Cabinet Minister at the time you felt many strange things about these attacks. Do you not think it was strange?

[MetalHeadz]

Best decision I ever made was ignoring this thread and just making random jokes about tin foil hats.

Worst decision most of you made was arguing this out with him.

Worst decision you made was discrediting evidence you haven't examined thoroughly.

[PaulOakenfold]

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/flas...theory-911.php

[HeavenSent]

Your irony is ironic to say the least. B)
--------------------------------------

We observe that approximately 34 upper floors begin to rotate as a block, to the south and east. They begin to topple over, as favored by the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The torque due to gravity on this block is enormous, as is its angular momentum. But then – and this I’m still puzzling over – this block turned mostly to powder in mid-air! How can we understand this strange behavior, without explosives? Remarkable, amazing – and demanding scrutiny since the US government-funded reports failed to analyze this phenomenon. But, of course, the Final NIST 9-11 report “does not actually include the structural behavior of the tower after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached.”
(NIST, 2005, p. 80, fn. 1; emphasis added.)
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Brigham Young University

[HeavenSent]

Ok you ney-sayers, you mockers of we that believe this was an inside job, where are your debunkers now?

Is no one up for the challenge to explain the questions posed on this pages alone? At least the Japanese government has the balls to dawn their tin-foil hats to ask the questions for understanding. I've given a plethura of questions that 'the official story' fails to answer. I'm not a physicists, but i know if I drop something, it's going to fall. I don't need validation to trust in my common sense.

If we were in a trial, all these questions & images, with their audio, video & witnesses would be put in front of you... the jury, to judge. You guys (you know who you are) talk of 'ONUS' but yet when the evidence is placed before you, you look the other way, then claim it's not there. LOOK DAMN IT!

What are you afraid of? That you've been fooled? ...and those who were wise to this scam, you called IDIOTS? or ROBOTS? or Conspiracy nuts? I challenge you to look at the questions on this thread and find the answers without appearing like those you've accused of being 'conspiracy nuts'. Don't just yell out personal insults here. It only shows your fear and inability to reason. Answer the damn questions! Other wise, you just might find yourself in a room without windows breathing your last breath of lethal gas... or staring down a trench of lifeless bodies waiting to join them.

We didn't beat the Nazis, they just moved to America.

As the saying goes, "History repeats itself". And that's because people become too comfortable in placing the responsibilities of their life & safety in the hands of others... only to find out they've been betrayed. At the birth of this nation, only a small percentage (13%?) of Americans wanted to revolt against the oppressions and impositions of the British empire. There's at least three times that now that believe 9/11 was an inside job.

So what should we do? Well, for those saying they wish 'the end' would hurry the hell up... or 'Bring it, let's get it over with'. Then doing whatever you feel you can to spread the word is the fastest way to make it happen. Back those fat-cats in a corner and they'll come out scratching.

Have courage. Face the posibility that history will repeat itself in the worst way yet and lose the hate to educate yourself. :wub:

[Squeezer]

I like how you feel cocky, as if you've swayed the mind of anyone here.

The reason people stopped responding is because they're tired of talking to a brick wall. Most of us also have better things to do with our time than preach to open space and post dozens of youtube links, each of which is more obscure than the last.

No one cares...Please, just cut it out.

[Vatican Assassin]

that picture of the top of the building falling to the side before it all goes straight down pretty much explains it all anyways, if you rule out internal explosions then you rule out gravity.

[HeavenSent]

I like how you feel cocky, as if you've swayed the mind of anyone here.

The only people that will be swayed are those that have enough motivation to do the research.
The rest will remain where they are.

First they came for the Muslims and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim.
Then they came for immigrants, detaining them indefinately, solely upon the certification of the attorney general and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't an immigrant.
Then they came to enter homes and offices for unannounced sneak and peek searches and I didn't speak up because I had nothing to hide.
Then they came to arrest American citizens and hold them indefinately without any charges and access to lawyers and I didn't speak up because I would never be arrested.
Then they came for immigrants and students from selected countries luring them under the requirements of special registration as a ruse to seize them and detain them and I didn't speak up because I wasn't required to register.
Then they came for anyone who objected to government policy because it only aided the terrorists and gave ammunition to America's enemies and I didn't speak up because I didn't speak up.
And then they came for me and by that time, no one was left to speak up.

[Cylor]

He believes the Bible is fact, the Amero exists, that America blew up the WTC and Pentagon voluntarily and somehow got hundreds and hundreds of people to go along with it, plays subspace/posts on the forums religiously, and is married to WorstPlayerEver. These are not only very good reasons to believe his conspiracy theories, but also excellent evidence that arguing with him rationally will have some beneficial result. Please continue.

[MetalHeadz]

He believes the Bible is fact, the Amero exists, that America blew up the WTC and Pentagon voluntarily and somehow got hundreds and hundreds of people to go along with it, plays subspace/posts on the forums religiously, and is married to WorstPlayerEver. These are not only very good reasons to believe his conspiracy theories, but also excellent evidence that arguing with him rationally will have some beneficial result. Please continue.

That's not really an argument against what Heavensent has said with all due respect. An argument that ONLY focuses on discrediting the person you're arguing with is a little weak if you ask me. Try reviewing the evidence this guy has pointed out then make a decision, seriously just do it.

[Cylor]

That's not really an argument against what Heavensent has said with all due respect. An argument that ONLY focuses on discrediting the person you're arguing with is a little weak if you ask me. Try reviewing the evidence this guy has pointed out then make a decision, seriously just do it.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthr...437#post615437