Gay Marriage 2008- Topic revisited

[Kolar]

So does the mother have the right to stop her kid from biological reproduction?

Being gay or straight doesn't limit your ability to reproduce. There are a lot of options for a gay couple if they want to have a family. Some of those options gives the couple the possibility to be biologically connected to them, future technology could allow for greater options for both straight and gay couples in different situations.

If you can not control your actions by conscious choice this is a problem that needs to be solved.

We're talking about sexual orientation here Fluffz. A gay person is attracted to the same sex, a straight person is not. Those are 'states', not physical actions. When some smoking hot chick walks by do you drop your trunks and hop on for a ride? This is another problem, people assume gay people are sexual deviants and thus are something to be "fixed".

The kid needs to be the one that picks its lifestyle

And we're talking about sexual orientation. As I said before lifestyle is what you choose and make of it. No one decides out of the blue that they like girls or boys, that applies to all people. I can not choose to be gay and like wang any more then I love vagina. I never decided in my 22 years on Earth that girls are more appealing to me, it is just how I am and nothing can change that.

[genocidal]

why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why

[Summa]

Fluffz:Homosexual action is a choice.
Summa: Acting on your homosexual desires is a choice, but homosexuality is a sexual orientation you are born with, and here's proof.
Fluffz: no need to reply when i agree. Back to the topic at hand: Gay marriage.

And as I stated before, that you rudely denied and didn't see me connecting A to B, with your philosophy you are prohibiting sexual relations between gays and in essence real relationships between them. That is fucked up beyond comprehension. Even Wark and Izor aren't that fucked up. They are after all people with free will, and you seek to take choices away from them just because they are of a different sexual orientation.

[Vykromond]

I think you don't understand what "equal" means, then. Equal means that they are equivalent, plain and simple.

NO idiot

that's ==

= means u define it!!!

GOD back to the concrete schoolyard for you concreteschlyrd

EDIT: http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpos...&postcount=202 holy shit tagmor already won this thread y r u ppl stil postin

[Cops]

why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why

i don't know

[Izor]

lol this thread is dead.

[raizin]

just in case there was some confusion

[Epinephrine]

Into the topic of reproduction,

I know a gay couple that wanted kids, so they had kids with a lesbian couple (artificial insemination I assume) whom they were friends with. Real people, real story. So yes, gays CAN reproduce if they want to.

[Fluffz]

How would a gay couple [...] be any different from a straight couple? [...] At worst, they would teach tolerance and acceptance.

I have 3 examples for you, even you must agree to the last point since you brought it into play:
- They reproduction process is different even tho they could reproduce the traditional way
- Children have a different approach towards males and females because of their own gender property. Raising kids in a 2 male family is different for the kid.
- The idealized gay couple teaches more tolerance and acceptance than the idealized straight counterpart

I think you don't understand what "equal" means, then. Equal means that they are equivalent, plain and simple.

By your logic, if a person kills (chose a different word if it bothers you) someone and requests the same treatment like a person who didnt kill someone than he is right as long as he is part of a minority. Gay partnership is not the equivalent of marriage for above reasons.

How is it "non-discriminatory" if you're saying that they shouldn't be able to do it because they're different? You're DISCRIMINATING on the grounds of sexual preference. How hard is that to understand?

To do it? As in found a family or live in a relationship? Quote me where i said they should not do it, until than this is not a valid point. Non-discriminatory for above reasons.

Being gay or straight doesn't limit your ability to reproduce. There are a lot of options for a gay couple if they want to have a family. Some of those options gives the couple the possibility to be biologically connected to them, future technology could allow for greater options for both straight and gay couples in different situations.

You still do not answer a question i raised. You replied because u obviously had a problem with my answer to the question: "So does the mother have the right to stop her kid from biological reproduction?" My answer was: No, the kid should choose. I was not arguing the mother actually does force her child to live a gay life, that was Nycles argument about "womb chemistry". This is not my point of view, i am just uncovering a flaw in your point of view.

We're talking about sexual orientation here Fluffz.

Im pretty sure my first post was on the context of marriage. After which i had like 500 posts stating i was not arguing about sexual orientation. It does not surprise that you have a problem to understand what i say.

And as I stated before, that you rudely denied and didn't see me connecting A to B, with your philosophy you are prohibiting sexual relations between gays and in essence real relationships between them. [...] They are after all people with free will, and you seek to take choices away from them just because they are of a different sexual orientation.

Funny how my argument to connect those two was "free will" and "choice". Yours like Kolars should be "sexual orientation dictates your action!" which got us into this whole discussion about "is gay a disease?" in the first place. This is your argument, not mine. I just point out its flaws. You say i am wrong and the reason you give is more than questionable.

[Vykromond]

By your logic, if a person kills someone and requests the same treatment like a person who didnt kill someone than he is right as long as he is part of a minority. Gay partnership is not the equivalent of marriage for above reasons.

that was his exact logic, you are correct

[Fluffz]

Yes it was. Different action, same law? You guys are plain nutz.

[Troll King]

You're comparing homosexuality to murder and you think everyone else is nuts? You're making the same mistake as Izor did earlier; your analogy only works because murder is illegal. Homosexuality however is not a crime, so your analogy falls apart completely.


EDIT- Even convicted murderers are allowed to marry while serving their time in prison. That alone blows your analogy to pieces.

[Cops]

I don't know man in some places it's still illegal to put your dilly-bar in a guys creme pie, if you catch my drift

edit: I was just reading up on sodomy laws in America and I'm pretty sure that shit is a-okay. The red states must be pissed about that.

[Zerzera]

You're comparing homosexuality to murder and you think everyone else is nuts? You're making the same mistake as Izor did earlier; your analogy only works because murder is illegal. Homosexuality however is not a crime, so your analogy falls apart completely.

He did not compare it to murder. He was only trying to say that you can't compare same sex couples with different sex couples because their actions aren't exactly the same.
I think I understand the reason in his posts; he just says that the two couples are technically different -in behaviour and oppurtunities- and so that some benefits that come from marriage shouldn't apply to homo couples.

Fluffz, I don't know about your country but in my country benefits you get for pregnancy have nothing to do with you being married or not. The two shouldn't be combined, and thus a gay couple would never get pregnancy benefits anyway. Then pregnancy and child benefits are two different things again too. You get these for raising a kid, not because you were or were not pregnant.

So I think you are yet to prove any different behaviour that homosexual couples have to traditional couples that should require different regulations or benefits.
Because, don't forget, this entire argument of marriage is only a discussion on the field of law. Whether you find homosexuality immoral or not, you simply don't have the right to dictate others on sexuality. It's in your law, and so that same law should cater for equal oppurtunities too.

[Da1andonly]

but gay and all have opinions equal to motherland yes?