WTF Japan? Epic thread of problems

[PaulOakenfold]

PROBATION **/**/** **:**am ****** V2 bitch! Pipski The Finn
Pipski <_<

[DankNuggets]

1480 is pretty common number here the st. deviation in intelligence must be staggering on this board. You're either 1500 SAT materail of 600 SAT material


It was kinda looked over, but somewhere in Epi's repy to me he said:

The athlete that gets pressured, at least they are GOOD at sports. Imagine if someone BAD at sports is also under the same pressure?

that's where the issue lies. many kids pressured into sports and music aren't any good at them, yet their parents try to force them to keep it up anyway "because colleges like extracuriccular activites".

I think it's that there are fewer people pressured in general, but for those that are, the pressure is just as intense.

And yes, we agree that the instances of hikikomori might be a product of the introspective culture. We rely heavily on peers, and it's evident when you see a guy who has no friends. It seems then, that the Japanese must rely heavily on their parents, or no one at all. Since the parents are unsympathetic, could it just be that the Hikikomiri's are a product of not having an "esteem" circle or w/e BS they call it? That's problem #1. even as early as elementary schools, they drill self-esteem into your head, and that you should go to friends and others with problems.

I know in elementary school, I also had to take a test to get into kindergarten. FYI, kindergarten is not compulsary, whereas 1-12 is.

The idea in America is that EVERYONE deserves a similiar education. This is obviously not shared in Japan. This is problem #2.

It's not that school is harder... we can all agree that getting 100 on a geography test in Japan is just as easy as getting a 100 on a test in America... the questions and answers are exactly the same.

What Gall was mentioning with the 8-9 system converted to B-A system doesn't make any sense: you have more divisions (10 compared to 5) so obviously they can't translate down the line. It's retarded to say you haven't seen anyone make the top grade... certainly there's someone who actually knows the material in your classes, unless you're in a subjective field such as english or philosophy. In engineering, you either get it right or you don't. there is partial credit sometimes, but that is considered unethical by a lot of professors (what if the building only partially collapes??).

From what i've seen, it all bogs down to "the tests matter much more in Japan". Well, sorry, but I think I'd like that better. Like exalt, for quite a few classes, i did just enough HW to keep an A or B, and got 100's on the tests. Getting a 100 HW average is a product of motivation, where getting a 100 exam average is a product intelligence. I know several times during my exams in college, I'd be the first person to finish, and sometimes be the only person to ace it.

And gall/others who are taking US high school courses: don't be excited you're in the "gifted" classes. IF you weren't, you'd be a total idiot. "Gifted" classes are for people who actually learn, whereas normal classes are what you'd consider "remedial". Remedial classes are basically special ed. If you're not in an AP class, then it's not really accelerated/gifted.

so i think it's a combo of
1. no esteem networks
2. lack of educational parity
3. overcrowded workforce

[Galleleo]

It's not that school is harder... we can all agree that getting 100 on a geography test in Japan is just as easy as getting a 100 on a test in America... the questions and answers are exactly the same.

No, the difference is in the test. Is the test in America about states and capitals only? Is the test about states and capitals and every city with more than 500.000 people? Is the test about states, capitals, every city with more than 500.000 people and major rivers? Etc. etc. If the only questions you get are states and capitals, scoring 100 on a geography is easier than if you have to know states, cities, rivers, etc.

What Gall was mentioning with the 8-9 system converted to B-A system doesn't make any sense: you have more divisions (10 compared to 5) so obviously they can't translate down the line. It's retarded to say you haven't seen anyone make the top grade... certainly there's someone who actually knows the material in your classes, unless you're in a subjective field such as english or philosophy. In engineering, you either get it right or you don't. there is partial credit sometimes, but that is considered unethical by a lot of professors (what if the building only partially collapes??).

It's not retarded, it's because our test are harder and the grading is tougher. For example, in my Project Management class, which is easily my toughest class I can get 850 points in total over the semester. However, do I get 760 points I still get an A for the class.

In the Netherlands if you can score 100 points on a test, and you score 99, that is a 9.9, not a 10. Add to that, that our test are not just a bunch of multiple choice questions (and even our multiple choice questions are a bunch harder than the once I have had here so far), our test are on average 5 open questions with a. b. and c. And each answer is easily up to half a page to a full page. And the answer has various aspects you need to answer and cover in your answer. Each question can vary from 5 points for it to 25 points for it, depending on the question. So it is not 1 line answer with 1 point per question.

Someone scoring a 10 on an exam in University, is extremely rare, I haven't seen it yet in my 4 years at my university. There is always something where you don't score full credit for and you need every single point to score that 10.

[DankNuggets]

what kind of classes do you take then?

No, the difference is in the test. Is the test in America about states and capitals only? Is the test about states and capitals and every city with more than 500.000 people? Is the test about states, capitals, every city with more than 500.000 people and major rivers? Etc. etc. If the only questions you get are states and capitals, scoring 100 on a geography is easier than if you have to know states, cities, rivers, etc.

you didn't listen. geography doesn't change form country to country, it's facts. Yes, we did have know all state and COUNTRY capitals, label them, major moutain ranges, rivers, etc. In spanish class, one of the easiest you could take, we still had to know all the major cities of all the spanish speaking countries, major rivers, lakes, etc. What you're telling me is that you haven't had any experience in taking tests like this over hear, or if you are, you aren't in a "hard" class. Same goes for math, physics, etc. Only subjects that are "subjective" can have "harder" questions. 2+2=4 in every country. calculus is calculus, no matter where you go.

It's not retarded, it's because our test are harder and the grading is tougher. For example, in my Project Management class, which is easily my toughest class I can get 850 points in total over the semester. However, do I get 760 points I still get an A for the class.

i had a chemsitry class where you could get 50% and get an 'A'. What i'm saying is that A =/= 10, B =/= 9, etc. They are different grading systems. If you haven't had a kid that's gotten a 100 in your class, I don't know what to say. I've had plenty of classes where someone did every single bit of work, perfectly. Ofc, not many people do, but to say it's impossible or doesn't happen IS retarded.

In the Netherlands if you can score 100 points on a test, and you score 99, that is a 9.9, not a 10. Add to that, that our test are not just a bunch of multiple choice questions (and even our multiple choice questions are a bunch harder than the once I have had here so far), our test are on average 5 open questions with a. b. and c. And each answer is easily up to half a page to a full page. And the answer has various aspects you need to answer and cover in your answer. Each question can vary from 5 points for it to 25 points for it, depending on the question. So it is not 1 line answer with 1 point per question.

what the hell Gall? you're trying to explain the 0-100 grading system to me know? I know you just drop it a factor of ten. It's not like we don't have 0-100 here, we just attach a letter to it. In fact, the letter range is completely decided by the particular teacher, and means nothing.

With the exception of standardized tests, most of my tests were fill-in-the-blank. Standardized tests are multiple choice because it's easier to grade, not because it's easier to take. Your 5 open questions, with 3 parts a piece, is exactly like what i've had throughout college.

You couldn't possibly be taking anything but survey courses as the call them here, if all you have is easy multiple choice tests. The ones i did have would be a)-j) (that's 10 answers) and they'd be like
a) 1.01
b) 1.02
c) 1.03
etc

Someone scoring a 10 on an exam in University, is extremely rare, I haven't seen it yet in my 4 years at my university. There is always something where you don't score full credit for and you need every single point to score that 10.

Well I have personally gotten a 100 on exams, that were 10-20 open ended questions, that took the class an average of 3 hrs to take. If you know the material, there's no excuse not to make a 100.

And btw, all if not most of these classes i'm talking about are for civil engineering, a field that's universally recognized and standardized across the country. The tests have to be sent in to make sure they're not too easy, the prof's send in examples of HW, projects and such to the accredation board.

The only excuse you could have is that you're forced to learn more, and I disagree. If you did learn so much more, my classes wouldn't be filled with international students coming to learn here. I don't think it's because it's "easy" either.

[Galleleo]

I am not arguing which is better or worse. I am simply saying that getting an A over here is a lot easier than getting a 10 in the Netherlands.

And apparently our tests are harder if no one (even the biggest nerds, meaning they study A LOT, and smartest kids I know) never score a 10. Everything I have had so far is really easy, I am still early in the semester and I am expecting the Finals to be harder, but still not as hard as in the Netherlands. And all my classes are above 300 level, with one 400 level class.

[Izor]

Like I said, a pissing contest over whose tests are harder, and therefore who is smarter because they went there. Thats what this whole thread was coming to from the start, because theres some ideas in peoples heads that everywhere else is harder than America and that we have it soooooo easy. How can you change someone's mind, Dank? I've spent 4 pages using common sense, and they still cant get over their prejudice and stereotypes. Hes just going to argue that he needs that 'tough' education so that he can work on average 1300 hours a year...lol. If you argue any further this will eventually go into 'we speak like 4 languages in european countries you only speak one. we're way better than you'

[Exalt]

I am not arguing which is better or worse. I am simply saying that getting an A over here is a lot easier than getting a 10 in the Netherlands.

And apparently our tests are harder if no one (even the biggest nerds, meaning they study A LOT, and smartest kids I know) never score a 10. Everything I have had so far is really easy, I am still early in the semester and I am expecting the Finals to be harder, but still not as hard as in the Netherlands. And all my classes are above 300 level, with one 400 level class.

you are not very smart....

the grading scale in almost every school in the US goes by this:

65-70% D 70-79% C 80-89% B 90-100% A

The number system is the same, except we put a letter there for the percentage and you do not... but a 9.5 in your grading scale is the exact same thing as a 95% in ours... there is no difference whatsoever so stop arguing it, dank nuggets already shut you up

Also, the letter is just a quick way to see what you score... it means nothing... the percentage is what you REALLY score and that is your grade, if you score a 95% you score a 95% not just an A

[Izor]

Hey exalt, youre missing the point that its way harder over there, and they learn a lot more and are better than us

[Epinephrine]

I am not arguing which is better or worse. I am simply saying that getting an A over here is a lot easier than getting a 10 in the Netherlands.

And apparently our tests are harder if no one (even the biggest nerds, meaning they study A LOT, and smartest kids I know) never score a 10. Everything I have had so far is really easy, I am still early in the semester and I am expecting the Finals to be harder, but still not as hard as in the Netherlands. And all my classes are above 300 level, with one 400 level class.

It also depends where you go Gall.

I remember I was talking to a SS friend way back when I was in first year chemistry. In my class I was learning about SN1 and SN2 equations in our 2nd month. For him stuff like that wasn't even covered until second year. In fact everything I learned in my first month was his full year's curriculum for chemistry. We both attended reputable universities in Canada, although mine was considered one of the 'best'.

There is a lot of variation between schools. I'm sure if you were at MIT, none of your tests would be so easy.

[Galleleo]

Rofl, trying to have a discussion with Izor and Exalt is useless. They blame you for having prejudice and stereotypes, when I am actually the one that has experience in both cultures and you 2 don't.

I am sure it varies by university, but if none of you are willing to read what I say. That is your problem not mine.

[LaG KiLLeR]

Hate to say this, but I guess I have a right to...not because I'm an American, but because I've been to Japan countless times (my mother is a native of Japan).

Pardon my ignorance but I haven't read the majority of posts, let alone 10...mainly because I figured the majority of the people who've posted have never set foot on Japan's soil....thus I'd basically be reading American-washed media influence (probably Izor and Wark too).

Anyway, it's great that you're exploring news about other cultures LB. Of course, there are peculiarities everywhere...some are more prevalent in certain cultures than others.

There's also one big difference between American and Japan (specifically). In the United States, it's a well-established notion (at least in many non-Asian family households...more prevalent in Caucasian households but I don't want to overgeneralize) that children ought to leave the house at the age of 18, once they receive their GED and have become an "adult".

Well, in Japan (and even Ecuador, I know this because I lived with a native family for 5 months there), children are not necessarily encouraged to leave the households, especially the daughters. Usually, daughters will leave once they've found a suitable man to marry, in which they may move into the man's family house (or have their own...depends on their economic situation). Usually though, Japanese sons are more likely to leave the house as soon as they enter college or find a job than daughters, who are more likely to stay home until marriage. But sometimes, there are cases where the sons were unable to obtain neither and developed a sense of shame. In that case, I wouldn't be surprised if it causes some psychological disturbances which may even result to such a clausterophobic-like symptom (although it's probably not the case).

But anyway, what I wanted to get at is how Japanese society is heavily influenced by the notions of "shame" and "honor". It's like the samurai warrior code that's embedded in the culture, those who do not uphold the "honor" are more likely to be the ones with the problems due to "shame", etc. Actually, this is my own hypothesis (I have no valid evidence to prove this statement lol)

[Liquid Blue]

Yea I definitely find it interesting how the "samurai code" and deep-rooted feelings about honor in Japanese society have evolved with the times.

I also don't get the point about arguing who has a harder testing system in which country or who has to do more work to get ahead- I was really focusing on the emotional pressures and mindfucks that occur in Japan because of their workload, family pressure and sense of shame, not on how hard their curriculum is.

[Displaced]

tyvm lag killer, but i still expect the bum hick patrol to call you racist and accuse you of flinging empty stereotypes :turned:

[genocidal]

Briefly on comparative education systems:

I have experienced many kinds in the US but I also studied in Europe. Saying one is "harder" is difficult - especially with variables like subject, institution, professor, etc.

The best I can say is that Europe is more focused on written answer forms whereas America likes multiple choice for many disciplines. Is one better or more effective or harder? No. I do well at school but I'm especially good at writing so naturally those come much easier for me. I'm not sure what type of multiple choice you Euros have experienced but some are quite difficult.

Look up some sample AP US/European history questions online for high school level shit and look up LSAT sample questions for what is expected of college graduates. Multiple choice can be a gimme type of test but it can also be made exceedingly difficult.

[Displaced]

I don't know, IMHO multiple choice is always easier than a written answer (and yes, this is a subjective opinion) because;

#1) In a multiple choice question the answer is already given to you.

#2) You can do well in a multiple choice exam by using process of elimination to get rid of atleast 1 or 2 choices per question.

#3) You can pass a multiple choice exam by either guessing the answer to each question (you won't pass a written exam by writing page upon page of uncoherent bullshit :turned: )