Obama has done a terrible job so far.

[Xog]

Xog.. you are a moron.

Let me be a little more clear...

[kthx]

<3 420.

weeeeee bandwagon!!!

Xog.. you are a moron.

Takes one to know one!! :P

[kthx]

Xog.. you are a moron.

[Xog]

Thanks.

[kthx]

Thanks.

[Summa]

"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."

-Murray Rothbard

Again let me reaffirm what I noted before, one of the things you failed to quote. I know I am fairly ignorant compared to you on this subject and my opinion is little more than what I have learned mostly through reading. Hence why I deferred to people with more experience on such matters at the end of my post. (Starting to turn into a bit of a journalist or politician are we?)

actually, the last time the market corrected itself freely was 1863, after which the first nationalized banking system appeared (it was also the last year the dollar appreciated in value on a long-term basis). you'll notice that the recessions do begin getting worse (and the value of the dollar begins depreciating at a higher value - almost 3%/yr) after 1913 - when the FED, and modern central banking, appears. after 1971, when the central banks finally, fully decoupled from gold, then inflation rates shot up to nearly 6-7%, and the business cycles have all been quite horrific, and occuring more frequently.

Entirely freely yes, not since the 19th century, but in the 19th century we were hardly industrialized and our GDP per capita growth was a joke compared to what it is now. The market has very much evolved, including an expansion into a global economy; which was unfathomable in the 19th century. (Honest question) Do you think that the old system can work in a modern world? If so, why? I mean take China and a piece of literature (something I am more familiar with) The Jungle by Upton Sinclair, do you think that workers should receive such treatment? (Another honest question) Are you against regulation that protects human rights and establishes a minimum wage?

From my understanding (could be completely wrong), the real imposing regulation didn't start until FDR. That is when the market really began to start becoming more regulated, up until that point it leaned more towards the free side. And since then the disparity of boom/bust cycles has decreased (that is the measurement from the top of the boom to the bottom of the bust).

i'm going to definitely need to see some more specific information here, considering that the first Great Depression happened after Roaring Twenties which was caused by incredible amounts of credit flowing from the then-newly-created Federal Reserve. perhaps you have a pie chart!!

I am struggling to find the graph that my professor used, he may have hybridized two graphs. Most one's online don't seem to date back beyond 1950... And I don't have a scanner... This is the best thing I could find online, it isn't very accurate...hell the alignment is even off, but it looks at least resemblant of what I have. The one I have is far more detailed and accurate...and it focuses on the shifts more so you can actually see which ones are smaller and larger...this one kinda leaves it all muddled...but after 15 mins of searching its the best i could find.



Edit: Note: The portion from the 1800s is noted as "inaccurate" on the site that used this due to a "lack of available data".

I don't believe I made a claim of which is better, I may have made a claim of preference...I dunno I posted that about a week ago. But your info about the roaring 20s furthered my claim. I am talking about how the line (barring this current recession as an anomaly) steadies as (I assume you can agree to this) government involvement during and post WWII has increased. Back in the roaring 20s when the market was on the less regulated side we had a huge boom, followed by the great depression, followed by the WWII boom, followed by a huge slowdown. That is the dynamism and disparity of a free market, versus the fairly steady regulated free market. And about the above graph, it does take a dip today, but let's compare that dip to the Great Depression: unemployment of 9.5-10%, vs unemployment of 33.4% ....not comparable at all.

I would like to once again say that I am no specialist here, and I consider my knowledge in this area limited at best, if any of this is completely off the mark, please enlighten me (I am serious, I would like to understand this better).

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/?...0183&ref=fpblg

That woman is hilarious. Besides being the leading "birther" "lawyer," she's also a dentist and real estate agent.

So, you know, she's got something to fall back on. Maybe.

PS - Whatup Z Hotlanta CPA

[raizin]

I second this. After the Alamo and everything Geronimo went through to deal with the wily Mexicans, we can't just make a single wall..... no gaps, no wasted land from failing to connect wall segments? I was informed there is a significant rate of malicious intent on the part of american border patrol. apparently in the dead of night, the guards travel to the areas where the gaps are; scouting for stealthy vagabonds. if they come across units trying to run, mostly males, they shoot them without warning. If they make verbal contact with the group, and get them rounded into the van, sometimes there is a female. sometimes this female knows that she can use her beauty to persuade guards. i was told there is a human sex slave business going on, and many individual guards have routines to find them, and the money chains go up to their superiors. frequently the attractive, single mexican women who are desperate to enter get entry by being sold into bondage, via these chinks in the wall. the cameras miss gaps of several hundreds of yards, so the women not being brought up through the underground tunnels get willingly purchased.

thought you where talking about dirty mexicans

[Ilya]

http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/?id=3110183&ref=fpblg

who cares about ann coulter, she's not even an attorney

[Jason]

This proves that Obama is more white than black, a white man is out jumping him.

just a late/weak close-out. maybe he was in foul trouble!

[disorder]

I was watching some documentary on PBS that was about the Mexican/US border wall that was being built.

It showed literal pictures of how the wall isn't even a full wall... like... They will build a mile wall or something and then leave like a 5 mile gap in between the next section

You realize how fucking stupid that is? We wasted a billion dollars to build THAT piece of shit? Plus there is like a 5 mile section of US land that is just walled off in between mexico and texas... what a waste of land

I second this. After the Alamo and everything Geronimo went through to deal with the wily Mexicans, we can't just make a single wall..... no gaps, no wasted land from failing to connect wall segments? I was informed there is a significant rate of malicious intent on the part of american border patrol. apparently in the dead of night, the guards travel to the areas where the gaps are; scouting for stealthy vagabonds. if they come across units trying to run, mostly males, they shoot them without warning. If they make verbal contact with the group, and get them rounded into the van, sometimes there is a female. sometimes this female knows that she can use her beauty to persuade guards. i was told there is a human sex slave business going on, and many individual guards have routines to find them, and the money chains go up to their superiors. frequently the attractive, single mexican women who are desperate to enter get entry by being sold into bondage, via these chinks in the wall. the cameras miss gaps of several hundreds of yards, so the women not being brought up through the underground tunnels get willingly purchased.

[PaulOakenfold]

socialism is a bad word

i learned that in the army

[Jerome Scuggs]

what I have learned about that sentiment from some economics books and classes is that when the market is allowed to correct itself freely i.e. the 1920s-1960sish it has large periods of booming economic prosperity and large periods of drastic economic depression. aka the boom/bust cycle has an increased severity and disparity.

actually, the last time the market corrected itself freely was 1863, after which the first nationalized banking system appeared (it was also the last year the dollar appreciated in value on a long-term basis). you'll notice that the recessions do begin getting worse (and the value of the dollar begins depreciating at a higher value - almost 3%/yr) after 1913 - when the FED, and modern central banking, appears. after 1971, when the central banks finally, fully decoupled from gold, then inflation rates shot up to nearly 6-7%, and the business cycles have all been quite horrific, and occuring more frequently.

while congress may not have been directly intervening where Joe Citizen could see it, the federal reserve routinely dabbles in the market with its open-market operations, as well as all the new "tools" (powers) it has at its disposal.

it's interesting, when you analyze the data from 1800-2008 on the inflation calculator, to see that trend i just pointed out. money stability goes down as government attempts to stabilize money go up.

but as government involvement in the economy has increased over time, the severity of the boom/bust cycles have dropped significantly (this current depression being the anomaly). the wave has narrowed into what is almost a steady line (at least in comparison to what it used to be).

i'm going to definitely need to see some more specific information here, considering that the first Great Depression happened after Roaring Twenties which was caused by incredible amounts of credit flowing from the then-newly-created Federal Reserve. perhaps you have a pie chart!!

so regulation may be a bad thing for people who enjoy extreme success followed by dismal failure, but for those who prefer constancy, regulation has been quite successful.

it's one thing to say words on a forum, it's another thing to be correct

hell the most successful economy in the world currently, China,

...

"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."

-Murray Rothbard

[DoTheFandango]

I can't wait till my zionist leader Obama finally leads us in 2.5 years to the Mecca and we all get to live in Communist paradise together.

VIVA.