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**poop juice** · 07-31-2003, 12:11 PM

Re: Are We Doomed?

Originally posted by TelC@t
Take this 1 step further, you will start to think 'uncertain theory' is actually a relfection of our lack of ability to gain the true insight into certain physics phenomenons.

this is partially true, though the basis of the theory is that some things are inherently random, like the flipping of a coin. you can never correctly guess the correct side all the time. this randomness is the basis on which the theory was developed, and proof had been found down to the subatomic level.

about things lining up like dominos... it is this randomness inherent in nature that prevents things from pre determined, though we can get a general idea. just like if you flip a coin 100 times, there will be about half heads and about half tails. this we can pre determine, but the order and exact number cannot be known until it is done.

your idea does have merit. though us as humans cannot predict the future, the forces of nature seem to be able to... this artcle explains it: http://www.dontveter.com/qi/cramer.html

**HeavenSent** · 07-31-2003, 12:52 PM

Alright now we're getting deep.

You're right, everything is all lined up like dominoes.
If God is All knowing, without beginning or end, and we're His children...
God is our Father and He is Spirit. We are His children and we are spirits dwelling in these tents as the Apostle Paul (being an ex-tent maker) would say. This means the TRUE Reality is in the realm of spirits. Paul said, Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (1Cor:15:50) The kingdom of God is in the spiritual dimension. Therefore, mortal, carnal man cannot exist when God establishes His kingdom on Earth.

The window of time where mankind dwells in the physical will soon end.
...Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?(1Cor:15:51-55)

Heaven is where-ever God is. Jesus is God. God the Father fills all space and time. He is in all He creates and He creates all. God wants His children to relate to Him and be able to approach Him face to face and converse like normal people. Hence God makes Himself like one of us.. i.e. God the Son- Jesus. When Jesus returns, heaven will be on earth and all man-made creations will cease to exist. They will be consumed in the fire of the Lord's return. Those that have already died will be returning with Him, while we who are alive will change instantly from flesh to our spirit bodies... Those of the Lord's will transform without experiencing physical death, while those who rebelled against God will transform with much pain. Afterwards, we'll all be in the Lord's new millennial kingdom.

This kingdom is to re-orient all the souls to God's way of existing happily with each other. It will be a time of teaching. Those that were faithful in their earthly lives will be the newly appointed ministers and administrators of God's thousand year course study of how to love thy neighbor. At the end of this time, God once again releases the evil He had bound at His return to test His children on what they've learned. For the test of the flesh, only the flesh was consumed. For the test of the spirit, those that fail this test will cease to exist; being swallowed up like a drop of water in a great ocean.

My point is that we're spirit, God is Spirit, we are His children and it's only natural that the children grow up to be just like their Parent. Our Father is God, we are children of God. Perhaps there's much more to learn after this last test call Judgment day. Maybe eons afterwards and eons further into the new eternity, we just might get our own universe and have children??? ... and start pretty much the exact same cycle of trials and tribulations with our own children??

But really, only God knows what awaits beyond the final Judgment. He's only revealed the times leading up to Judgment day with a very quick glimpse in the eternities.

**Fit of Rage** · 07-31-2003, 12:55 PM

Funny you should mention this.

I've actually been reading Hawking's The Universe in a Nutshell and a couple chapters actually have something to do with your topic, specifically, predicting the future.

You mentioned that there is "uncertain theory" in that we do not (or cannot, by current-day methods) obtain the knowledge that allows us to make plausible estimates concerning the past and the future.

There was a French scientist by the name of Marquis de Laplace in the 19th century, who was the key founder of Determinism. The basic idea was that if we could somehow obtain the precise position and velocity of all the particles of the universe at one time, we could thusly predict their position and velocity at any point in time, past, present, or future. The major roadblock here is that the Heisenberg Principle of Uncertainty outright demands that this cannot happen. For those who are unfamiliar, it states that the more accuratly you measure the velocity of a particle, the less accurately you can measure its position. Therefore, until a Grand Unified theory to include all points of physics is generated, it is futile to attempt to overthrow the current laws we have on a simple whim that they don't fit in with your own ideas, as Laplace would have you think.

But to answer your question, no. We're not doomed. I believe in the human spirit as an independently thinking module, where decisions and choices are made according to your own thoughts. Even if the universe has been setting up certain scenarios for billions of years, I think that concious decisions are our own works, not the universe's.

**King Missile** · 07-31-2003, 02:18 PM

(first of all, this is gonna be pretty difficult for me to explain it in proper engish)

i think that things can only happen in 1 way and in 1 way only...

as with the Laplace thing Fit was talking about this should then also be possible for the human mind/brain...
every thought, hope, desire etc a human has is caused by something in the physical world... therefore a possiblility to predict all particles' locations at any given time would mean it is also possible to predict every human action, thought and decision...

edit: i hope you know what i mean cuz i barely understand what im talking bout myself when i read it back

**Epinephrine** · 07-31-2003, 05:06 PM

Well first you'd need to figure out a way to meld quantum physics with classical physics. Quantum physics roughly tells us that you can predict that's going to happen to any thing on the subatomic level (something like that). So if that can be melded onto the macro-scale then everything can truly be determined. Unfortunately unless the grand unified theory can be found, there is no way to really prove this.

-Epi

**RiP** · 07-31-2003, 05:20 PM

Banji wa yumé

**Fit of Rage** · 07-31-2003, 06:31 PM

KM- I never said I agreed with determinism. I just said that's what the viewpoint is.

**RabbitRapist** · 07-31-2003, 06:39 PM

no everything isnt predetermined but we're prolly doomed because we're human.

-RR

**Spiderex** · 07-31-2003, 07:03 PM

if we dont start exploring other planets (outside solar system) and colonizing them, in about 4.5 billion years we're all gonna be blown up to hell (that's when the sun super novas)

**Fluffz** · 07-31-2003, 07:16 PM

Re: Are We Doomed?

Originally posted by TelC@t
If this is true, if everything in this universe do truely follow certain set of rules, then given all the original conditions at the beginning of the time. Wouldn't things just taken place like well lined up domino bricks? Everything in our life are pre determined billion and billion years before we even existed?

Are we doomed?

Not realy. In an unlimited ammount of parallel Universes you can apply any rule and still have your free will. The way you decide to go can be choosen by you alone, while from a greater viewing nothing is changed since in all those universes u go any other possible way anyway.
From this point of viewing your life or soul (or whatever u call it) is just a line though that 5,6 or 572 dimensional creation and which way it goes is all in your own hands

so yes, everything would go the same way but no, our life isnt pre determined.

PS: can i be your scratching post?

**Spiderex** · 07-31-2003, 07:24 PM

why does everyone think parallel universes exist.. No really, i need to see some explanations

**poop juice** · 07-31-2003, 07:33 PM

i don't have any internet sources at the moment to show you, but i suggest you read Timeline by Michael Crichton. It explains the concept of parallel universes very well, and the proof for it.

**Fluffz** · 07-31-2003, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Spiderex
why does everyone think parallel universes exist.. No really, i need to see some explanations

never seen sliders?!

**bloodzombie** · 07-31-2003, 07:50 PM

Re: Are We Doomed?

Originally posted by TelC@t
If you are 'scientifical' minded to the extreme, like myself, you will be tempted to think that everything in this universe follow some set of rules, and you can use reasons to explain everything. There is nothing magical about anything.

I too, am scientifical to the extreme.

I believe that everything follows the "wonderbra" principal which states "If you push them up, he will come".

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