The best warbird styles

[Commodore Pickle]

Couple things.
1) TopGod can't word it quite right, but he's correct 100%.
<3 TG.
2) Someone asked who the old pioneers were. Well, I can get you started in the right direction. Look up the old -F- roster. Cripples had a couple duelers, but were primarily basers. (Lou lou, how ya doing?) And I think I can say without too much ego, check the old Digressed roster. It was short-lived, but the members spread out to form/join squads, making them that much better. Maybe you've heard of one of the squads that was spawned by ex-Digressed... I believe it's called "Shriek".
The time frame I speak of is back when DoCK> came out with the first Trench Wars leagues, then passed control off to Dantax. It was smod run back then, we had to schedule and manage matches via email list. Man what a pain. ^_^

And as a _last_ note,
as TG said you must have ego.
Nobody ever said "conceit", but tell yourself "I am [name], I will win because it is what I do!"
Man, I remember times when I won whole league matches 1v5 and 1v4 while chanting that aloud like some kind of mantra. People nearby thought I was insane. But I won. Because I am Commodore Pickle, and it is what I do!

(I KNOW I'm going to get some flak for that last paragraph. But then again, I don't care. Or maybe I want a flame war.)

[WiseCherub]

I didn't mean specifically you as in YOU, but in all of my years of playing/dueling/training, no one has come close to understanding the game as I do (with a couple exceptions). I consider wbs and javs to be equivalent. The same theories (and sub-theories and sub-sub-theories) apply to both equally. The implementation is different, but the ideas are the same. My style is extremely unique on the inside. How many people do you know that "read" ahead the moves of their opponents AND themselves? I have no idea what I'm going to do next, I can only predict what I'm going to do next. Do you understand what I mean by that? Do you understand WHY I do that? No offense, but I doubt that you understand it because I dont completely understand it myself.

I completely apoligize for getting on your case; you see sometimes I'm too sensitive about things and over-analyze things. When someone slights me, I never forget and in my heart I wana get even. But now I understand where you are coming from and often feel the same way as you.

In fact you are right there is very few people I know of that can read the future moves of their opponent, its almost impossible since obviously we can't predict the future.

When Ripper was helping me out, he gave me this piece of knowledge unfortunately everything is out in the open now; regarding this (reading your opponent trying to aim at you and then you aim/fire before they can press fire) skill used alot by Jack and Ruby. Ripper himself is quite good at this and told me knowing about it is one thing, but this skill takes time to master.
Very true indeed, it does infact take time, and believe it may take me a while to develope. I know it doesn't happen overnight, like some real eager overconfident new players may think.

Before Ripper told me this, I use to spec Ruby and Jack lots to analyze what magic they do. Exactly what ripper said before (reading opponent, good probability of knowing when the enemy is trying to sincerely aim) was what was going on.

Read you enemy, watch their nose, observe how they move the warbirds nose as if they are struggling to aim at you (but remember this is at incredible small quanitities of time), use whatever intel info you have on this dueler (their name links to your associative memory on this duelers capabilities level), compare the pattern behavior they portray (assess what skills you know they have), make a real-time quick decision whether to aim/fire before they get a chance to fire at you. Since they are trying to aim, they throw out dodging concentration, thus a window of opportunity is created to hit them easily (since this human is focussing primarily with aiming rather than being ready to dodge your well aimed shot). Now after you fire, they might try that last ditch fire at you attempt, so you must immediately (FIRE AND FORGET, you took your best aim!), now you must switch to preparing to dodge incase they fire at you. And remember not to see if your bullet hits their ship, we now focus on where opponent's bullet is coming from and get ready to dodge it.

I give full credit to Ripper and Mr.420 (not me), Ripper (reading opponent, the window of opportunity) top part and Mr.420 (not STARE at your own bullet, timing issues in dueling) bottom. I took two bits of knowledge from these good duelers and deduced a conclusion.

BTW, I saw that reply Blood (I have no idea why you would say that to me, I have never talked to you before, nor have we ever seen each other play much.. ohya you are a euro) as for me sucking, I quite honestly don't care what you think of me, good think I suck... please do it, thank you.

I much value what Ripper told me, I think you have potential, and I value what Ripper says over you anyday Blood.

TopGod you are right, we have no idea what we will do next or what 1-10 ships around us in the arena will do. But I have learn other things in life which I apply when dueling. The importance of the greatest gift humans have (Free Will). As Foreign and Sirius said in earlier replies, yes we rely upon our knowledge (what our brain records about certain events in our life - our experience) and use it (as I illustrated in 2 paragraphs above) --- ok 1 tool. My free will which is another tool, and my fast response system (eye/hand/coordination) what another tool. Combine all these physical/mental attributes I have and create a system which can help me predict the future.
Like others said earlier Cause and Affect. Action/Reaction....

duality = (action/reaction), (order/chaos)

Order = my organizational method of classifying human wb duelers, my memory. My own basic/advance dueling tactics and how they can manipulate and create action/reaction conditions.

Chaos = My free will, My oppenent's free will.... randomness.. some call it luck, distortion, noise, etc... or even lag for that matter. My emotional state of mind too influence how I use my free will and CONFIDENCE. Confidence is extremely important, like you can feel you will hit them, you just know it.

Also I use what I learned about computers:

The Universal System Principle

1>Sense - 2>Decide - 3>Act

1>Read Oppenent wb dueler --
2>Make best free will decision that can increase the probilitiy of a future event to occur... Using all your knowledge, anything at your disposal...
3>Execute the decision you have made and carry it out, then repeat...and so on..etc

for computers:
Input (Sensor) ---> (A/D -> CPU --> D/A) -----> Output (LOAD)

therefore for dueling

DODGE -- AIM -- FIRE (BACK TO DODGE STATE)

I guess you could have a FSM(Finite State Machine) Model for dueling, lol.

But I guess some of you get the point, and others find this to be complete bull or nerd speak crap...boring..yawn.. omg this is very hard to explain and I agree I don't think anyone can fully understand this all, except God I guess. But your not God, you TopGod..lol.. we just can't predict the future, but we can try to narrow it down so to speak... like when you report the weather for the next few days (even supercomputers are wrong, we all know this, lol. ah, the permutations... what a pain...but a blessing too..oops

I *know* that I'm arrogant and cocky. However, in this game, you can't be anything else but that if you wish to get anywhere. If you can't say "I will beat you" before a duel starts, then dont bother. Arrogance leads to motivation which leads to trying which leads to victory. I know that I can beat anyone (cept blood cuz he wont duel me ) if I actually bothered to try. But the problem is that there is no competition anymore so theres no reason to care. That brings me to my next point...

Well then you hit a plataeu in this game, the pinacle... where else can I improve? You must be aware that wb duel skill varies over time.. some days we suck and others we prevail. The big question how do you manipulate yourself to perform on average good all the time. Well I find memorizing fundamental skills/concepts as discussed crucial to be getting out of a slump. The problem is our emotional state / concentrate level can have an incredible large impact on our current AT THE MOMENT (Present time) level of wb duel skill. I can manipulate my own emotional state by using various methods.

I have tried teaching people to get better and I, at one point, started writing a guide on "how to be elite". However, I realized that very few people would be able to comprehend everything, so I didn't bother.

If you think that my arrogance is misplaced, feel free to look me up in TW sometime (?find top) and we can settle it the old fashioned way </ego>

Yeah, I know this post is full of ego and arrogance, but its fun being high and mighty sometimes

Looks like you beat me to it, so you probably understand where I'am coming from now. I tried damn hard to accumulate as much knowledge and come up with the overview of wb dueling arts.. I gave to people I considered friends, with no thanks in return, not even a review or comment to add to my knowledge base.. yes I mean mutually sharing. Some actually increased in duel skill level (in a sense passing on the knowledge to create a larger population of competitive wb duelers in end making it more fun for all of us and more challenging). Heck if people helped me, I wana carry on the tradition to grateful players who have the ambition to learn/evolve.

Of course we all have EGOs, anyone to deny this is a complete liar. I have an EGO, yes! But I try to keep control of it, its useful (good for motivation like you say (energy) and confidence.. 100% agree) sometimes, and yeah I love that feeling when you beat someone.. makes you feel so good inside.. But I try to be professional or mature about it, and not try to go too far to the point of crushing someone's spirit. Unfortunately, as I observed many fine duelers to build up my dueler database within my mind, I also saw other disturbing trends.... there is some really wicked people who play this game, it almost sickens me inside. Omg, how they treat each other, ah reminds me of punks at high school..bullies..etc.. ok I'm 31, so I see thru this immature stage many are going thru now. Just best to ignore it and move on I say.. like many say.. ESC+F5 in elim goes a long way = better concentration.

Leading to this conclusion -
[Confidence (EGO), Dueler Endurence, Discipline (not doing sloppy habbits), Concentration, and of course Ambition (Motivation)]

[Mattey]

We've dueled TopGod? I didn't know.

Honestly though, the only thing you need besides aiming/dodging/rushing/getting kills is prediction. Prediction is what seperates the top from the rest. If you know what your opponent is going to do before they do, you basically can't lose.


EDIT: And all you "retired" people just got surpassed. You didn't get worse, everyone else got better. That's why you just don't have it anymore.

EDIT 2: This thread won't help anyone by the way because you pretty much have to figure all this stuff out on your own to know how to use it.

[King Baba]

I like how the people that write these big long essays on how to WB are sub-par as far as skill goes.

Nobody got better by reading words on a screen. Go play, don't whine, have fun, and then you're a vet. Practice and become good and then you're elite.

Oh and btw, I heard someone say they played for a year and are at 1800 hours of usage now...jesus man, I've played for 3 years off and on (more on than off) and I just passed 2000 hours. Maybe you stink cause you try too hard?

Anyway. Mattey is my hero, Metalkid is sexually frustrated and socially inept (he's too used to running away from social occassions so it carries over to anti-social occassions as well), aaaaanddd...I guess that's it!

[Sirius]

Freud and Subspace

BTW, I saw that reply Blood (I have no idea why you would say that to me - WiseCherub

Rofl saw that reply coming; if you knew him you'd understand =P

But the problem is that there is no competition anymore so theres no reason to care. - TopGod

Let's duel (;

Yeah like Pickle said you need ego, it's one of the main things that will give it to you. I'm one of the most arrogant people you'll see on this game, and there are a few tradeoffs whether you're arrogant or not. Arrogance builds your character, and makes you a solid person; it drives you to achieve things on all sorts of levels, but at the same time, due to our evolved cerebral cortex and the sensitive emotional topography it brings about, [you'd have to read one of my papers about it to understand that sphere better if you don't] implications of superiority disgust the mind as an outcome of indirect defensive calculation done deep inside. This brings about favorable loathings of arrogance, ego, and usually quite parallel to physics, the more impact the arrogance/ego has, the more collective of a rebuttal there is against the person demonstrating it. If you can get through to the person somehow through their ego barrier though, there's usually a lot more to get out of it than from an average person.

On the other hand, lacking ambition keeps you homogenized just like everyone else, yet the majority likes you, because you dont pose any discomfort, while acting as an indirect ego-booster yourself. You don't really build much of an edge in any way though.

That brings up another point, usually people with the same levels of ego get along, because they understand each other the best, and also they lack insecurities towards one another, unless they come across as rivals or encounter one another on negative terms.

I dont know the age group in here and I figure it's leaning towards the younger side of the scale, but I'll mention this anyway. The instinctual mind is tweaked to strive towards self gain as a method of survival, this is true for all animals as well (this is a deep topic, if you need further elaboration ask me for my 'Mind vs Consciousness' paper), yet our evolved cerebral cortex brings about consciousness and emotion, which takes a bias and flawed path of [emotional reasoning] towards things it percieves. To make a long story short, in the end result we have a moralistic society teaching things like 'give instead of recieve' or 'don't be selfish', which makes our two key aspects [mind and consciousness] locked in a non-resolvable conflict of instinctual requirement vs. emotional well-being.

What I'm basically trying to say is, nobody really cares for you, regardless of what you may think, or what even they may think; almost all affectionate tasks in the world are done as a direct or indirect [subconscious] means of passifying/bypassing emotional disturbment. People make friends as a mutual indirect agreement to support one another, a mother loves her child as an arrogant projection of love onto something that is technically a part of her, and people who aren't ambitious or who are [less worthy] than you are favored simply because they help boost your own ego on the [survival] ladder, and pose no threat or discomfort. Everything else is sugarcoated nonsense.

I'm not directly accusing anyone in here of trying to manipulate their friends in here or whatnot, most people in fact don't realize that that is the outcome their crafty mind weaves behind their conscious back. And it's probably better than way, since otherwise consciousness would bring about that emotional discomfort due to certain values taugh in society, and negate the minds' doings.

But that's life, people who understand it deal with it, and people who don't, need to realize it and live in accordance. But then again, as some say, ignorance is bliss.

[Sleepy Weasel]

Is getting warbird dueling advice from people who aren't good in wb useful?

[Miku19]

I think it's helpful. I've learnt all these überkewl new styles already! Much like I learnt about crining last year.

[Intriquality]

Wow this post is really going somewhere.
I browsed sirius's little intruction guide and felt like I was reading a chemistry book. Atleast i could relate Sirius post more than the chems book :P

Simple wb advice:

Just play!
Play a good taste of everything, be open minded, play consitently, you'll get better without knowing it.

Sounds like people in this thread are talking about human anatomy rather than a little shooting game :P
Just freaking play!

[Blood]

yeppers, rushing isn't as common as people make it sound here. sure, there are some people that try it, but if you can just thrust straight away from the rusher's ship and he can't kill you, it's not rushing.

The rushing style I utilizie consists of this: Closing in on your opponent, turning sideways when getting dangerously close without losing any of your momentum (in most cases this is when the opponent shoots at you hastily) sometimes the dodge requires you to a fool the other a bit before he shoots but normally you can just react to the shot, it's not hard since you're facing the enemy sideways.
after that, with your superior momentum, thrust away to your opponent and blast him away thusly: thrust after your opponent until you're right where his ship is, very close or on his immediate flight path. Aiming here isn't hard, you just have to make sure you're on the right side of the enemy, since you might create an opening for the opponent if you have to turn your ship around. Glance at your radar while chasing, too, to look out for rocks the rushee might bounce from. I personally love it when people try to run away by bouncing from rocks, it's so predictable and you can easily get close to them if they make this mistake. the chasing part of rushing is just trying to predict where your opponent is going and getting there faster. also, if the opponent stops to recharge while running, try to fly a bit past them on their flight route and you recharge yourself to get the energy needed to end the guy's life.
In the case where the opponent doesn't shoot when you're sideways flying at them, you can get close enough to them to just fire away a normal shot to kill them, this is just a bit dangerous. You might want to back away from the thrust if they don't shoot first.

[Luckily Yours]

raspi is the best wb right now, no point in denying it, he radars he rushes like no other. a smart player all around and pretty effective.

rock bouncing? hahaha wat about breakdancing? or eating cheesecakes shooting styles? wtf lol

oh and blood, your "predicting" that people will bounce of rocks only led to people pretending that they will bounce but continue in their path. its always a 50/50 chance, unless uor facing a shit newbie, but in that case u dont need to predict anything, they will die regardless of wat they do

[Webbb Llama v1.5]

Sirius is easy, if he is lagging just run around and defend his rush.

Sirius did you move back to NY?

If I don't know how someone plays I just run circles until I decide they can't hit me, and if I can't kill them while running I cut my circle tight and surprise them by rushing after they shoot.

The only problem I had with that strategy was players who had great aim could corner me, but even then they'd have to rush me to get the kill and I liked those odds. Other than that I never had any big problems using that strategy.

[Sleepy Weasel]

I personally love it when people try to run away by bouncing from rocks, it's so predictable and you can easily get close to them if they make this mistake.

rock bouncing is a huge newbie mistake. On a few occasions it's a valid move, but the vast majority of players use it in situations where it just leads to getting yourself easily killed.

[Reaver]

Couple things.
1) TopGod can't word it quite right, but he's correct 100%.
<3 TG.
2) Someone asked who the old pioneers were. Well, I can get you started in the right direction. Look up the old -F- roster. Cripples had a couple duelers, but were primarily basers. (Lou lou, how ya doing?) And I think I can say without too much ego, check the old Digressed roster. It was short-lived, but the members spread out to form/join squads, making them that much better. Maybe you've heard of one of the squads that was spawned by ex-Digressed... I believe it's called "Shriek".
The time frame I speak of is back when DoCK> came out with the first Trench Wars leagues, then passed control off to Dantax. It was smod run back then, we had to schedule and manage matches via email list. Man what a pain. ^_^

And as a _last_ note,
as TG said you must have ego.
Nobody ever said "conceit", but tell yourself "I am [name], I will win because it is what I do!"
Man, I remember times when I won whole league matches 1v5 and 1v4 while chanting that aloud like some kind of mantra. People nearby thought I was insane. But I won. Because I am Commodore Pickle, and it is what I do!

(I KNOW I'm going to get some flak for that last paragraph. But then again, I don't care. Or maybe I want a flame war.)

When is Kurai Oni coming back, and why dont you use commodore relish :P

[MetalKid]

I like how the people that write these big long essays on how to WB are sub-par as far as skill goes.

Nobody got better by reading words on a screen. Go play, don't whine, have fun, and then you're a vet. Practice and become good and then you're elite.

Oh and btw, I heard someone say they played for a year and are at 1800 hours of usage now...jesus man, I've played for 3 years off and on (more on than off) and I just passed 2000 hours. Maybe you stink cause you try too hard?

Anyway. Mattey is my hero, Metalkid is sexually frustrated and socially inept (he's too used to running away from social occassions so it carries over to anti-social occassions as well), aaaaanddd...I guess that's it!

Luckily, no one likes you, King Baba, so that comment won't bother me. Besides, I started "running" from the beginning due to always having 350 ping from modem and deciding that I didn't like dying from bullets I don't see. So I would put distance between myself and other people so I have more time to dodge the damn bullets. Its hard to change after doing it for years, you know... I've tried...

[Noah]

rock bouncing is a huge newbie mistake. On a few occasions it's a valid move, but the vast majority of players use it in situations where it just leads to getting yourself easily killed.

There are ways to do it in a less predictable style, but that doesn't really work anywhere else than tournament where you have some rocks really tight. There you can choose to either run between two really tight rocks or bounce off.. If I'm rushed and I know he's got enuff to shoot when I'm empty I do that as a last resort and often I survive from it.

But I kinda agree too, there isn't many occations where you can pull it off so most often you just make a sitting duck of yourself. It's generally better to just fake it and go right by as close as possible