Skill factors in this game

[Izor]

Dodging doesn't have much to do with reflexes, izor/ezor whoever.

Much more about anticipation and guessing/knowing where the shot will go, and move into another direction.

Cool I'll start anticipating where strays are going to come from. That'll work real well, dipshit.

[Eric is God]

Cool I'll start anticipating where strays are going to come from. That'll work real well, dipshit.

You should be able to anticipate strays as long as they are from people on your radar. Otherwise it's just up to luck and your reflexes.

[Troll King]

It's a mixture of dodging reflexes and anticipation. I don't see why you can't have both. If you anticipate a shot coming, you'll still need to use some reflex action to get out of the way.

Let's look at one example:
One thing I've been able to do with a fair degree of success is to fly a shark directly towards another ship anticipate a shot and turn away at the last second while leaving a mine behind. 7 times out of ten I'll get the kill while escaping unscathed, and of the remaining three times, I might die but I'll usually take my target down with me. There is a lot of anticipation involved in this, but at the speed at which we're moving (and this becomes more important if the target is a lanc or a levi with a wide bullet spread) you need good reflexes to get your butt out of the way. The move requires you to wait until the last moment to turn, otherwise he'll see your mine early enough to move out of the way. Confidence is important for this too, and I'll often find people aren't expecting a shark to fly towards you head on.

Oh, and Izor, there are many ways to outsmart your opponents without it being considered "lame". I remember this one time I suckered another shark into chasing me up the flag entrance. I laid a mine right in front of him, but it was obvious and he saw it coming, so he stopped just in time. While he did that, I had already turned and flown around him and laid another mine right behind him. He had nowhere to turn, so I just repped him back up into the first one. In this example, he expected me to drop a mine on him, but he didn't expect the rest.

[Twerp]

I am not reading all of that.

[Troll King]

Your loss.

[Miku19]

I am not reading all of that.

And you absolutely had to take the time to share this wonderfully exciting fact with us! GOOD JOB!

[Lofty]

As far as intelligence goes, the only place you can outsmart people in is pub, and when you do it's considered lame - Izor

I outsmart people in all aspects of TW [dd, elim, etc] on a daily basis. Intellect has a very crucial role in this game, since it allows you to make certain deductions on behalf of what your opponent can or cannot do, what they are likely/not likely to do, and what moves will bait them the most to react in certain ways accordingly.

The deeper you can think in this game, the deeper your style becomes, and the more overwhelmed your opponent is left.


As far as the dodging debates, there's two types of dodging more or less, the way I see it. There's the intellect dodge, and the reflex dodge. Both dodges depend on the strength of respective attributes accordingly [reflex and intellect].

Both are used in different situations, though the reflex dodge is more a forced and spontaneous dodge style, than a preferable one.

The reflex dodge is the type you count on when you're caught in a situation where someone is chasing you or persuing you or coming at you and is ready to shoot, usually when you didnt anticipate it. Then you rely more on split-second reaction to the bullets.

When you're engaged in more of a dueling situation with someone though, that's where intellect dodging comes in. This type of dodging is setting yourself up for the opponent's counter-shot in a way where you are least likely to be hit with the most type of shots possible. This includes faking and anticipating your opponent's shot as well, as Da1 mentioned.


Geekbot, I'll stick with my talent and confidence terms, but thanks anyway.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=confidence

[Izor]

If I was that shark, TK, I would have warped or shipchanged (or repelled). And when I do that to avoid dying, I always get a shitload of 'omfg newb warper wtf'

As for the reference to making adjustments based on your opponent's strengths and baiting people into doing dumb things being called smart playing, I just thought it was a fundamental part of the game. I don't know anyone who won't switch style when they're getting owned with what they're currently doing. I do suppose that baiting people into making a bad rush is smart though. (when you know you'll be able to recharge)

[RATTY...]

ah, i rely on my dodging and running only, aim is overrated

[Jason]

I just fly the spaceships. I really don't put much thought into what I'm doing while I'm playing. I just play. I let things flow. I'm sure there are things such as instincts and spatial awareness and reaction time and what not at work, but it's all subconcious, for me at least.

[Lofty]

True, many of these factors are subconscious, but conscious understanding and tampering with it also helps determine how far it all goes.

[Izor]

I just fly the spaceships. I really don't put much thought into what I'm doing while I'm playing. I just play. I let things flow. I'm sure there are things such as instincts and spatial awareness and reaction time and what not at work, but it's all subconcious, for me at least.

That's why you're a baser.

[Epinephrine]

I guess it depends on what part of Trench Wars you're talking about... elim, baseelim, pub, ?go base, TWLB, TWLJ, TWLD, TWDD, TWDJ, TWDB, dueling, zombies...

Generally I'd say that in the wb/jav games being 'good' requires a few factors:
1) Great reflexes - used to avoid things you can't anticipate, usually caused by the bad luck of 2 people running into eachother from off radar with only a split second to make your move. Also used for complete and random strays (not the ones shot by people on your screen who you don't expect, or from people on your radar or who were on your radar only seconds ago and were still chasing you but you didn't notice). Also used for any lag, especially bullets that suddenly appear 1 inch away from a ship or when people 'lag through' rocks and such.

2) Great 2d spatial orientation - you must know where your opponents are, where they can shoot, where they can turn, where they are going when they go off your radar and so on. You need to be able to predict things accurately, and all this requires really good 2-dimensional spatial skills. You need to know what you're aiming at so your shots actually connect. You need to know where enemy shots can go so you can dodge, often pre-emptively.

3) Intelligence - Basically the ability to outplay your opponent by out strategizing them. The ability to remain calm, collected and logical while playing. The ability to be completely focused and competitive to the bitter end, always thinking of ways to win.


Although I believe all three are important, I ranked them in that order because they are usually the order at which players go up the skill ladder if you may. The worst 'good players' will only really have good reflexes, and that is their only advantage over everyone else. The next level players have good spatial orientation and can do prediction, have the ability to 'know' where their enemies are, what angles are possible to shoot from and so on. The best 'good players' basically the highest level will have both 1) and 2), and the only way they can kill another best 'good player' is either by luck or by using 3), intellect.

Number 3) doesn't get noticed much because it doesn't get used much. Most of the time you can get by with 1) or 2) (even though it's nice to use 3) it's not entirely necessary). But it is only against the very best players does 3) become not just good to have, but absolutely necessary. 3) can also be useful under situations where you have just normal good players who are under an intense pressure situation (i.e. say a TWLD game where the score is 48-49 or something), and they are in full control of both 1) and 2). Any of the best players can tell you that fighting other top players requires it all, and if they don't it's cause they're either lying or too cocky to admit anyone is as good as them. As well any duels between the best players will result in deaths only by stupid mistakes, or by a tour de force out thinking move. Their aiming and dodging and ability to learn, strategise and manouvre is so excellent that a single death can last a very long time in a tense duel.

As for the basing type games a different kind of skill is necessary.

Basing is much more about knowledge than pure skill. You need to know the good places to place your shots, the good places to be hiding, the good places to mine, the good times to rep, the good places to burst, the good places to warp and so on and so forth. Then you need to be able to synthesize this knowledge together and use it accurately and specifically once you are in the game. The other skills mentioned for wb/javs still help but aren't nearly as important until you get to the very highest levels of basers such as the best 2-3 terriers in the game and so on. Also the ability to work well with others and do unselfish moves (but only when necessary) is also very important in basing, although I won't elaborate as this thread I believe is about personal ability.


As for the idea that the level of skill is increasing in TW. While it is true that 1) and 2) from the wb/jav skillset are being more spread out as those can be learned or in any case trained to a large extent if people care enough, 3) has not really increased. 3) is really limited to the population size of the zone, because in general, more people means more people with the intellect necessary for TW playing the zone. Note that TW intellect is a subset of overall intellect and doesn't necessarily reflect intellect outside of SS.

Why do I say this about 3) being limited? It's actually quite obvious. Even with all the skill increases from more people practicing up 1) and 2), the best best players in the zone remain a very small and specific club and has only really changed over time as the population has changed. This club has gotten bigger proportional to population increases in the zone, and this club remains. The best players are still the best players. The increase in the best players is linearly tied to the increase in TW population (unlike the increase in 1) and 2) skill), and the best players still enjoy the same kind of skill leap they have over the good players who have excellent 1) and 2) but not the best 3) skills.

That's just my take on it...
-Epi

[Jason]

I can hold my own in a jav or wb duel, Izor. I am a baser as well though, and I agree with what Epi said. Basing is more about knowledge than anything. I know where to be at the right time. I know when to rep versus when not to rep as a shark, or where to mine and where not to mine. In a spid, I know how to conserve energy. Knowledge is key! Unlock your mind!

[Izor]

For basing you forgot to mention knowing how to use your 300 ms rocket to beat a cram.