?go Base Captaincy Needs a List of Veteran Caps

[BIET]

Hm, ogron already mentioned a minimum requirement of 7*'s to be able to cap. If we take that as a starting point, which I presume is what is been done right now, we can build upon it by adding players to the list by performance in base games themselves? We could track number of games played, time played, lagouts, number of kills/deaths. There must be a combination of those stats that tells the bot to add a player to the list. You can maybe raise the number of required games whenever a player performs below par in a specific ship. Maybe favorite and give advantage to capping player who have played terrier before, since it is such a crucial ship in basing. Just some ideas!

[qan]

If you wanted to make it more complicated, you could even do it with two lists: first-tier (8*+) and second-tier (7*+). Second-tier caps could have a very small wait time, perhaps 5-10s. Considering some 7* have played over a decade or more, it would respect the fact that they're far, far better than a random/newbie/troll is at capping.

But regardless of implementation, in order to avoid any appearance of favoritism, a very specific and openly-stated criteria must be used. Then there's no question of why one person is on a list and another isn't. Minimal drama is best, for everyone's sanity. And as BIET said, we can keep brainstorming solutions and ideas.

Also, we should remember that we've only had automated caps in ?go base for an extremely short time. Before that it was nominations, and before that caps were assigned by staff. (May have tried other things somewhere in there ... I've quit and come back to the game several times, like most of us, and my memory's far from perfect.) This did mean if you had an inexperienced staffer answering your call, you might get a somewhat random cap, but usually experienced players were chosen because they have a greater ability to deliver balanced games. That said, there's always been a problem of new players not getting play time when many vets show. But someone's going to get excluded when there are more players than slots available, and it's going to be the less experienced/unknown players. That's just how it works in every game in the world, video game or otherwise. Newer players can try to urge captains to give them a chance after practicing their spider game in pub a bit more. Put me in, coach!

[BIET]

Like I said I?m not at all familiar with what happens in ?go base lately, maybe they have gone, but it looks like there are still players (trying to) sabotaging game, not only base, for whatever reason. Also, I can?t remember any of the names since it has been years, probably 5 years or so, and I rather forget them to be honest.

It is tough to guarantee every getting a (cap) spot, but hey this isn?t pub, while also making it more difficult for players to sabotage. Maybe the timer should be shortened to only a few seconds, which should also be enough time while barely making it a wait, or have a usage requirement of lets say 100 hours plus a list of players that are banned from capping. The usage requirement should stop players from switching to a new account over and over to evade the ban. And this is just a limit for getting a cap spot. Everyone is still up for being added and it is up to them to prove themselve worthty to be picked, some like to add more newer/a variety of players than others.

Feel free to suggest other solutions to the posted problem. It?s an open discussion and nothing is set in stone. Everyones opinion is welcome, as long as it is constructive.

[Jessup]

Who are the jokers biet? I just don't see them in ?go base. Deal with them on a case by case basis if they are truly trolling a game and not doing their cap job. 30 secs is a complete shut out of a huge amount of non troll players during active base games who can do a fine job. This will essentially give them zero chances to be caps when base is active.. Caps spots are always taken in less than 10 seconds when base is active. Let's not kid ourselves.. the sweeping powers this will give a select few when it comes to ?go base is drastic.

edit > How about make a list of players who cause issues being caps after instances arise with them. That I could perhaps stand by.

[BIET]

Please remind yourself it is just a 30 second time non listed players can't !cap in ?go base. They can still get the captain position after the times has run out and they can always be added. The issue of not being added due to caps picking the same lineup shouldn't is affected much with this implementation in my opinion. I'm not really up to speed with the current happenings in that arena for quite a while but I have seen the jokers snatch the cap spot on a number of occasions. For this to work and not affect non listed players too much I would suggest to start the 30 second timer as soon as the arena message goes out, which should be the earliest time for players to get the captain spot. This way the space is there for experienced captains to get their spot before the rest gets a chance. If the listed players fail to gain the captain spot in the allotted time it should be fair game.

Most of the presumptions are made mostly on the few ?go base games I played when the arena wasn't exactly crowded, so please correct me if the situation is completely different from a game where 10+ players are forced to bench due to team size constraints. In less crowded games it wasn't unlikely to have minutes after a game ended where no one claimed the captain spot.

The biggest losers of this change will probably be the trolls (which is why the change is made in the first place) to deliberately sabotage the ?go base game and the lineups, the inexperienced captains who might want to play a couple more games before claiming !cap, and the players who know what they are doing but aren't listed (yet). This list only takes the !cap claim into consideration and not the effects allowing listed players to make their lineup, which is like I stated earlier not something the is affected much by this change.

Maybe we could come up with an easy and reliable way of updating the list, what are the criteria we look for, and how can inexperienced players overcome not getting picked or get !cap?

[Jessup]

lol true Voth 9:45 to 10:00 games I meant.. My point is they have been fine.. no urgency to change anything as I see it.

[Voth]

I just fail to see the games being any worse than they ever have there. Lots of 14:45 to 15:00 games happening when I play it. I don't see any serious issue prompting this idea. Is there is some troll ruining games?? If so who is it? Then deal with that accordingly.

think ?go base games are to 10

[Jessup]

I just fail to see the games being any worse than they ever have there. Lots of 14:45 to 15:00 games happening when I play it. I don't see any serious issue prompting this idea. Is there is some troll ruining games?? If so who is it? Then deal with that accordingly.

[skyforger]

Jess and Falco have fair points, but the OP has a fair point too - base is extra sensitive to subpar caps.

To solve this keep ?go base as is, but have another base bot in ?go mythrandir (without the # for visibility purposes) with the approved cap list mode enabled.

[Falconeer]

Are you guys trying to kill your league? If new players (returning players/players from other zones/people who were only pub players) can't even practice or get into league by ?go base, how will they ever join a squad? or participate in a draft league in the future? The only practice they can get after would be by playing pub where jav, weasel, levi, warbird, lancaster, are not even used in league. I'm with Jesster on this call, basically every point jesster makes is valid and worth considering.

That being said hockey zone has scrim and pub in the same arena. Two bases on one map; pub anyone can join, and scrim is captains (but its a free captainship anyone can captain). Also since all players are basically rated in draft league? then why not have the bot itself recommend to captains who to choose based on their rating? qan Requires extensive coding, but the potential there is that a newish captain would be recommended to recruit Jesster because he's rated an 8 or something for the captains next pick. The bot would message the player during their picks with recommendations in order. You could do recommendations based on base stats too, since i'm sure stats are recorded.

I know all my solutions require coding, but that's also what makes them actual solutions in a way, and not bandages or a messing up of the system entirely by extreme measures like exclusion/bans. In that sense, TW needs coders...

The problem with excluding people from captain, is that you never recruit those people to play either. You as a captain who knows best would be recruiting for your base team the best players to win... not the new guy from pub. So not only can this guy not play, but he can't even captain as a means to play. And because he can't play in the first place, that's why he's forced to try and captain before even having experience. It's a cycle. You need a system that actually recommends 6 starters and 2 less experienced players for every game. This way it's balanced but there are still good players, and inexperienced players get to play.

When you have that! then you can make the claim:
1. "WELL new players always 100% of the time have a chance to play in our system"
2. "So now we can require them to have certain hours of game-time before they actually captain".

You currently can't make that first statement at all, so you can't follow through with the second statement.

[Jessup]

I love these vague references with superiority inferences on opinions directed towards ME personally and not the issue I am confronting here in this thread. It is a bad idea and I am sticking with it. I think players being excluded from capping base (if this happens) have a right to feel disenfranchised by the zone in a PUBLIC arena. Fair play to be a cap is a RIGHT of all players in these public duel arenas. To expect the community being excluded to NOT complain shows short sightedness on anyone who thinks me fighting this idea is a bad idea. Most people have zero clue this is being discussed. All arena javduels and wbduels and base games can vary in the strength by line picked in games. To act as base is special and apart from this arena public list is just a partial personally charged judgement. It winds up overlooking the basic idea and conduct we have ALWAYS allowed. You do /!cap or in old days u yelled cap and the first ones get it. The cap has every right to add who they wish. Be it even or not. I do NOT see the evidence ?go base has been being ruined. Show me some examples of "ruined" games that hold the weight to pass a sweeping rule excluding many players. I have not been seeing this at all and hearing a claim that it has been is outrageous.

[Ricko]

damn Dreamwin beat me to it - this thread proves exactly why you won't make TWL op, am sorry.

[Jessup]

And what exactly upsets you so much with my foundation I laid that needs to be done in TWL thread or the opposition to this idea in this thread? It is a strength that I show to oppose foolish exclusionary ideas like this. Sorry I cursed if that is why you decided to quote me and then infer I wouldn't be up to the task but the ridiculous nature of this thread got me riled up. If you have something of substance to debate me on do so but it seems that is not your goal in your post.

[Dreamwin]

Who the fuck is so noob they can't add a line for ?go base. My name better be on this list of vets. What a joke idea. If you know how to /!cap in 2019 you know how to /!add player:3 .. This is a BS idea that serves no purpose other than to EXCLUDE players from playing. Terrible idea!

We have to remember that this guy is applying to be head of TWL.

[Jessup]

ROFL my name isn't on that list???????????? Why...? look at my games I've capped and tell me I don't deserve to be on it. I'm totally against this. In my defense I've been a captain for 15 years of a squad and staff for 10 years and a TWDT captain and a TSL host yet I'm not on rabs list??? I'm calling BS. I'm also TWDT power champion last year in twdtb. Explain why I'm not on the list?????