Banning Rules Need Changing

[Troll King]

It doesnt matter what he said or what he did. I dont have to read it bc its not a bannable offence. It never will be and it shouldnt be. those are PRIVATE messages/chats. They are made in private so nothing can be done about those. Private msg's can be sent from any SSC zone anyway, so u cant stop them. All they have to do is switch zones spam u/be racist from there, switch names do it more. THey can spam a TW staffer racist things from dsb if they want to and nothing can be done.

This is a closed case RR, move on with it and just ignore the person next time. Its alot ezier then this.

Ewan: thats what i meant. Its not like it takes 20 minutes to modify or make a fake screenshot. It can be done while ur talking to a staff member about it.

jacen: i bet u wouldnt have as much trouble as u think. Sure u should/would bann for cheating and things like that (tking/lag/etc) but if u didnt ban for the little things i bet ppl would stop trying to push the limits.

The problem is that people are making the mistake of shrugging things off by saying "they're only doing this to push the limits", as if that justifies anything at all. It's always "they aren't really racist, they're just trying to annoy you", "they aren't really cheating, they're just doing it because they don't like the rule". What these apologists fail to see is that these excuses doesn't make them any less wrong.

While it's true that, with the way things are set up now, it would be difficult to do anything about abusive PMs, the worst thing we can do is to ignore the issues completely. If there's a problem that cannot currently be fixed, you keep it in mind for the future, you don't ignore it and pretend there wasn't a problem in the first place.

[Ikrit]

Jacen completely agrees with Troll King, which is why I have finished up the spambot, it will tell the mod everything that the bot recieves as pms (including squad pm's).

Why should we overlook the stuff that we don't have to?
Why should we have rules that apply to one part of the game but not to another?
Why should we let the spammers have their way?

[Ilya]

why is double squadding illegal, anyway?

girls just wanna have fun!

[Ewan]

RR, why don't you get a mod to merge RabbitRapist into RR

[Rab]

huh Ewan ?

[Cig Smoke]

Jacen completely agrees with Troll King, which is why I have finished up the spambot, it will tell the mod everything that the bot recieves as pms (including squad pm's).

Why should we overlook the stuff that we don't have to?
Why should we have rules that apply to one part of the game but not to another?
Why should we let the spammers have their way?

Like i said above on this post. Whats ur definition of spaming? How comes when i ask one mod he says "3 lines (example)" then i ask another and he says "well its 5 lines" and the 3rd guy says some bogus thing. There is no set definition of spaming rite now so how can we have a spambot? This is stuipd stop making bots to regulate everything. If someone is spaming they'll get reported, a staff member will come and investigate. Stop with the stupid bots who dont read the whole conversation or know whats going on, much like pubbots.

TK: Im not saying ignore it, im saying that is shouldnt be considered illegal bc its PRIVATE. I know if i say "n1g" to my friend ina pm just kidding with him i dont want a bot to report me for it. Its not to hard to ignore a person u dont like, or like what he's saying. On that note, how will u protect a person pming from another zone? U cant bann someone when they are in another zone even if they are racist pming someone. U can pm a staffer racist comments from another zone and not be banned bc ur out of TW juristiction.

Edit: You ppl gotta stop being such cry babies bout little things. We already are the most strict zone when it comes to rules, and how staff handles things. This zone is gonna get to the point where u mite as well get rid of the chats, strap us down with ropes and whip are ass' bc we wont be able to do much else.

[Ikrit]

cig, the person has to ask for a bot, if you and your friend are jokin' around in pm's saying that stuff there's no way a bot can pick up on that. The spambots are for serious spamming issues (racist comments/50+ lines of pm text). They report everything that is said when they are logged in so it's not like the pubbots where if you say 1 of the 8ish different forms of the n word you get reported without it showing the context in which the word was used.

In a zone the size of TW, the mods HAVE to be strict. I could understand a zone with like 20 people not being so strict, but there's usually 500+ people on tw, if we're going to have rules why shouldn't they be enforced in all parts of the game?

I'll post more when i get to school (hopefully), if not when i get home...

[Troll King]

Like i said above on this post. Whats ur definition of spaming? How comes when i ask one mod he says "3 lines (example)" then i ask another and he says "well its 5 lines" and the 3rd guy says some bogus thing. There is no set definition of spaming rite now so how can we have a spambot? This is stuipd stop making bots to regulate everything. If someone is spaming they'll get reported, a staff member will come and investigate. Stop with the stupid bots who dont read the whole conversation or know whats going on, much like pubbots.

TK: Im not saying ignore it, im saying that is shouldnt be considered illegal bc its PRIVATE. I know if i say "n1g" to my friend ina pm just kidding with him i dont want a bot to report me for it. Its not to hard to ignore a person u dont like, or like what he's saying. On that note, how will u protect a person pming from another zone? U cant bann someone when they are in another zone even if they are racist pming someone. U can pm a staffer racist comments from another zone and not be banned bc ur out of TW juristiction.

Edit: You ppl gotta stop being such cry babies bout little things. We already are the most strict zone when it comes to rules, and how staff handles things. This zone is gonna get to the point where u mite as well get rid of the chats, strap us down with ropes and whip are ass' bc we wont be able to do much else.

And like I was saying, how does it being in private chat make it any less wrong? Your example fo you kidding your friend isn't a good one either. Take a look at the screenshot. That's not a case of someone kidding with their friends. It was a continuous and deliberately offensive case of harassment. You're not telling us to just ignore the problem completely? Just take a look at your edit: that's exactly what you're saying.

The bottom line is that abusive behaviour is just plain wrong, private or not.

[NaiLed]

huh Ewan ?

he means that smods+ can simply change a name of an account so you don't need to make a new account. they can also change your post count. i think that's what zeus!! does

[Cig Smoke]

And like I was saying, how does it being in private chat make it any less wrong? Your example fo you kidding your friend isn't a good one either. Take a look at the screenshot. That's not a case of someone kidding with their friends. It was a continuous and deliberately offensive case of harassment. You're not telling us to just ignore the problem completely? Just take a look at your edit: that's exactly what you're saying.

The bottom line is that abusive behaviour is just plain wrong, private or not.

Bc u dont need to be on a PRIVATE chat, u can leave it if u take offence to something. U dont need to listen to private msg's either. U can ignore the person. They are done in private and should be kept in private. Like said above, there isnt really a way to prove someone doing it either. Screenshots arent reliable evidence no matter who sends it in. I didnt read the screenshot he put up there, but if he would of typed .?ignore <name> after the 1st thing he said then he could of solved the problem. If the person changes names and does it again then something should be done.

jacen: oh i didnt understand what u meant I just didnt want another pubbot that looked for spam, or other things bc that isnt good.

[Ikrit]

jacen: oh i didnt understand what u meant I just didnt want another pubbot that looked for spam, or other things bc that isnt good.

we agree!, I don't think the way pubbots handle spam/offensive stuff is right, there are so many ways the stuff can be said that only by seeing the whole conversation can a mod determine what should be done.

[Troll King]

Bc u dont need to be on a PRIVATE chat, u can leave it if u take offence to something. U dont need to listen to private msg's either. U can ignore the person. They are done in private and should be kept in private. Like said above, there isnt really a way to prove someone doing it either. Screenshots arent reliable evidence no matter who sends it in. I didnt read the screenshot he put up there, but if he would of typed .?ignore <name> after the 1st thing he said then he could of solved the problem. If the person changes names and does it again then something should be done.

jacen: oh i didnt understand what u meant I just didnt want another pubbot that looked for spam, or other things bc that isnt good.

And like I said before, it still doesn't mean that what the person spamming racist comments is any less wrong, just because it's done in privacy. Like RR said: according to the rules as stated in TW, it's illegal. Yes, you're right, there is no way at present time to prove somebody is doing this, but that's what people are talking about; ways to make it possible. Just because it's done in private does not mean they should be kept in private. That's just an out to allow people to get around the rules. ?ignore doesn't solve the problem at all. It IGNORES it. That's not a solution.

[wadi]

And like I said before, it still doesn't mean that what the person spamming racist comments is any less wrong, just because it's done in privacy. Like RR said: according to the rules as stated in TW, it's illegal. Yes, you're right, there is no way at present time to prove somebody is doing this, but that's what people are talking about; ways to make it possible. Just because it's done in private does not mean they should be kept in private. That's just an out to allow people to get around the rules. ?ignore doesn't solve the problem at all. It IGNORES it. That's not a solution.

Go back and read my post guys. This discussion is moot because you're dealing with it at the wrong level. TW rules simply are not effective, not because the rules are broken, but because they don't have any weight on private messages or chats since those are handled through BILLING and options for dealing with a billing issue are very limited. The solution is to use the tools available at that level of access, and in this case your best bet is, has been, and for the forseeable future, will be ?ignore.

This isn't a tw staff issue, as much as a biller issue.

[Capital Knockers]

Go back and read my post guys. This discussion is moot because you're dealing with it at the wrong level. TW rules simply are not effective, not because the rules are broken, but because they don't have any weight on private messages or chats since those are handled through BILLING and options for dealing with a billing issue are very limited. The solution is to use the tools available at that level of access, and in this case your best bet is, has been, and for the forseeable future, will be ?ignore.

This isn't a tw staff issue, as much as a biller issue.

It's called, staff is lazy. Unless your actually trying to get banned, you most likely won't. The whole ?ignore thing is complete stupidity, it doesn't solve anything. In fact, it's just some easy bullshit line to give people because staff doesn't want to do anything about.. well anything. Do your jobs, or get off staff. If you guys can't handle running this game, shut it down. I'd rather have that happen, then just letting things slowly get worse.

[Fit of Rage]

Let's look at this logically. There are two options availible given the status quo:

1. Ban spammers as per the rules
   
2. Change the rules

Since wadi pointed out that PMs are the jurisdiction of the biller and NOT TW, 1 is not an option. That leaves us with 2. Perhaps the rules should be amended thusly:

The following things are illegal in Trench Wars:

Spamming in public chats (public chat, team chat, freq chat)

Being racist in public chats (public chat, team chat, freq chat)

Being otherwise discriminatory in public chats (public chat, team chat, freq chat)


How about that?

PS: Knockers, it's not that TW staff is lazy (hardly the case, if you spent 5 minutes on staff chat during a TWL period you would know what I'm talking about) but that we literally can't DO anything without solid proof. As Ewan demonstrated, it is fairly easy to fake a log or a screenshot, and thus the "proof" is moot. When two or more people bring about the same evidence, then it becomes more binding. Private messages defeat that purpose because they are just that- private. Only the receiver can see the message, so there is no second source for verification. This is PRECISELY WHY TW staff is powerless to ban based on PM rule breaking.