thank goodness for Levis and LTs

[Troll King]

I don't want to leave the impression that I'm bringing it up as an "I told you so", but I do this because I still think they are good ideas, but when I proposed my ideas here here I wanted to create positive changes that promoted basing but still created a compromise so that levis and roofers and other non-basers still had a place. While I still this zone should still try to instill basing as the main playing alternative, I think some recent steps, including some being proposed, might swung the pendulum too far as to almost strong-arm people into basing. There is a balance to be found.

[Tone]

I don't want to leave the impression that I'm bringing it up as an "I told you so", but I do this because I still think they are good ideas, but when I proposed my ideas here here I wanted to create positive changes that promoted basing but still created a compromise so that levis and roofers and other non-basers still had a place. While I still this zone should still try to instill basing as the main playing alternative, I think some recent steps, including some being proposed, might swung the pendulum too far as to almost strong-arm people into basing. There is a balance to be found.

attaching to a terrier in a crowded base and firing in all different directions like hell until you die 2 - 5 seconds later, then repeating this, sucks. can you think of a way to make basing less boring?

i like everything else about basing except when its that kind (above) over and over, plus doing many other things like LTing and being in the field and in midbase. regular pubs are much better than pure pubs, with basing and hunting LTs and all. pure pubs are boring like extreme games.

[Shas'la T'au Kais]

T0ne you don't base, you lt, spawn and camp.

[Kuukunen]

Lting is like masturbation: frowned upon, and not as good as with another person/multiple people.

Not quite. LTing is like putting people in a cage and then masturbating ON them. Hunting LTs is like drinking the stuff. Most people do not find this fun...

However, it does not ruin the fun for me or others, I love hunting LTs that get out of hand, and scoring a big chunk of change to boot.

...some do though...

[Theif of Time]

I've been misquoted, I'm sure. I don't recall saying that second quote 0_o

[Raver420]

Screw ltin! check this sh*t out

[Tone]

actually, I never ?go base. the elitist, stuck up, "wait and hope you get to play" attitude that's prevalent there pisses me off. and actually, I'm RARELY in pure pubs, because they're always fucking full. I play in whatever pub I land in when I start the game. so again.. shut up.

Then shut the fuck up about it, this doesnt even apply to you

as for the rest, there are two pure pubs. you can escape them there, unlike invisible ships

[suxxor]

Then shut the fuck up about it, this doesnt even apply to you

as for the rest, there are two pure pubs. you can escape them there, unlike invisible ships

hey, "shut the fuck up" is my line.

seriously, could you please explain how this does not apply to me? I am a pubber. I deal with levis and lt's, and I hate levis and lt's. as I recall, this thread is about.. levis.. and lt's. yep, see right up there in the topic? levis and lt's. I'm affected by them, so it sure as hell seems like this applies to me.

why should basers have to ?go somewhere else to escape annoying-ass levis? why not make the levis go somewhere else to do their lt'ing? think about it. my basing will not mess up your lt'ing. your lt'ing WILL mess up my basing. my fun does not ruin your game, while your fun does ruin my game. thus, you're the one that's infringing upon others, and YOU'RE the one that should be forced to leave.

[jus-kyle]

whatever

u dont like lts go to the pure basing arenas, plain and simple. i for one dont hate them, hunting them is fun, sometimes fun to be a terr for one. if u think they disrupt basing so much send a terr to roof and uve scared the thing off already who cares.

[Kuukunen]

I haven't read these forums that much, but I already see a pattern here. There are two kinds of lev threads: (and there are LOTS of lev threads)
1) the ones where vet players make a suggestion for improving the situation (these threads mostly get ignored)
2) the ones where new players (pardon my french, but usually they haven't been playing the game much) start a thread as their first message bitching about something like "these new levs are stupid!". (these threads mostly turn into angry words)

So we can have a conclusion: new people like LTs, more experienced don't. Now before you start saying "OMG OMG OMG OMG I'M NOT NEWB! YOU NEWB!" I'll say, it doesn't go like this every time, but the general lines are pretty clear. Look at Moot's post for example. And me too, I liked LTing at one point, until I found out about the truth.

So sorry, if you don't get the proper treatment and civilized discussion from everyone, at least I'm, in addition to levs, a bit bored of these lev threads.

Anyways, if you remove levs completely now, of course people will be bitching, but if my theory holds, the current new people will either quit playing or become more experienced, so that they don't even miss levs. The new new people on the other hand will have a blessing of never running into the abomination.

[Tone]

I haven't read these forums that much, but I already see a pattern here. There are two kinds of lev threads: (and there are LOTS of lev threads)
1) the ones where vet players make a suggestion for improving the situation (these threads mostly get ignored)
2) the ones where new players (pardon my french, but usually they haven't been playing the game much) start a thread as their first message bitching about something like "these new levs are stupid!". (these threads mostly turn into angry words)

So we can have a conclusion: new people like LTs, more experienced don't. Now before you start saying "OMG OMG OMG OMG I'M NOT NEWB! YOU NEWB!" I'll say, it doesn't go like this every time, but the general lines are pretty clear. Look at Moot's post for example. And me too, I liked LTing at one point, until I found out about the truth.

So sorry, if you don't get the proper treatment and civilized discussion from everyone, at least I'm, in addition to levs, a bit bored of these lev threads.

Anyways, if you remove levs completely now, of course people will be bitching, but if my theory holds, the current new people will either quit playing or become more experienced, so that they don't even miss levs. The new new people on the other hand will have a blessing of never running into the abomination.

i'll never stop liking levis. i guess i will never be experienced enough to desire pubs to turn into a square box with no rocks, no base and nothing but warbirds

[Kuukunen]

Ok, I see I'm going to have to clarify my (valid) points, and try not to turn this thread into a trash talk candidate. With all due respect:

Well dunno if I'm the only one who has noticed, but the sole reason this thread exists is because Tone thought it would be fun to provoke people by making a retarded thread about nothing. But since you even tried some civilized discussion, I can comment that. Of course I have to think about the possibility that you are some kind of retard too alt nicking here just to provoke people, but lets play nice.

Oh, and the reason I don't counter all of your "valid" points is that there are crap loads of things plain wrong in your posts and I don't have the time or the interest.

I totally agree with TONE! Levis and levi terrs add exciting aspects to an other wise spawn/shoot/die/spawn game. Without them, you might as well just spawn in midbase, or give everyone their own personal flag, as thats about how boring it would be.

If it would be THAT boring then WHY are pure pubs clearly more popular? I see a contradiction here. You people have to understand that what you think is fun, might not be fun for other people.

This is obviously an attempt by a few to bend the game to their desires. Maybe this is why population is dropping.

What?? At one point extreme games and TW were competing on who has most players. Troll King was talking about this in the other thread.

We have a ?go base arena, yet thats not enough, you get 2 DEFAULT arenas with no levis allowed, and thats not enough.

No it's not enough, the pure pubs are usually full, indicating there are lots of people who want to be there but can't.

u dont like lts go to the pure basing arenas, plain and simple. i for one dont hate them, hunting them is fun, sometimes fun to be a terr for one. if u think they disrupt basing so much send a terr to roof and uve scared the thing off already who cares.

as for the rest, there are two pure pubs. you can escape them there, unlike invisible ships

No it's not enough, the pure pubs are usually full, indicating there are lots of people who want to be there but can't.

You people have to understand that what you think is fun, might not be fun for other people.

Yes I'm repeating myself, but so are you. Just imho, these are very good points you haven't even tried to counter. You just keep ignoring them because you don't like them.

The community became fragmented right after levis were banned from basing. This of course immediately divided TW into two groups(basers and pubbers).

Apparently you have been just pubbing, community has been fragmented in that sense for ages. There are loads of people who don't practically go to pubs. There are duelers, basers, javers, etc. This is nothing new. Besides banning levis altogether would unfragment community: nothing to divide lev haters and levs, and maybe vets would start playing pubs a bit more.

That alone dissuays some ppl from playing base, I mean, who gives a crap about endless spider shots?

You people have to understand that what you think is fun, might not be fun for other people.

And vice versa. Start thinking ffs.

It's also fun to purchase anti. Hunting LTs is no game of chance with me, I guess it takes and LT to catch an LT. I can understand this may frustrate less skilled players, yet great rewards come to those who wait. And actually, I see ppl hunting LTs all the time, some ppl even green the levis so they can go hunt them!! this is true. As for devoting one or a few ppl to securing external base access, observe base or pub and youll see 2 or 3 javs, 2 weasels, a terr, etcc posted on the top harrassing the flagroom, with or without an LT near. Again, ppl doing what they enjoy.

This has so many things wrong I have to take it to pieces, but first:

You people have to understand that what you think is fun, might not be fun for other people.

I can understand this may frustrate less skilled players

Just....... Wtf..... Rofl

As for devoting one or a few ppl to securing external base access, observe base or pub and youll see 2 or 3 javs, 2 weasels, a terr, etcc posted on the top harrassing the flagroom, with or without an LT near. Again, ppl doing what they enjoy.

FOR FUCK'S SAKE I DO NOT WANT TO GO HUNT LEVTERRS. And 90% of time there aren't much people hunting them, indicating most people DO NOT WANT TO HUNT FUCKING LEVTERRS. As said before, I do it sometimes because it has to be done.

Also, if, as in your example, there are 6 people in the roof (and with that lineup, a levterr can vulch them easy) is there enough people for playing for real?

yet great rewards come to those who wait.

That great reward you mentioned, after 30 mins of hunting a levterr that just warps whenever he sees a blue dot on radar outside of base: they start again. I do not want to have a game of "who gets bored first".

[Kuukunen]

Apparently there's a 10000 character limit for posts... interesting. Gawd, I'm such a loser for getting drawn into a pointless discussion like this... Oh well...
Three posts in a row, yay.

Some players go solo, as to challenge themselves or develop their win loss by having twice as many targets. These of course are the warbirds, weasels and lancs spawning or hunting. They are not basing.

I've done lots of solo basing. (well as well as I can. Usually end up fighting in midbase) And even more basing with just terr and a shark.

The LT freqs and squad freqs that form in pubs do so for fun, not to help "this game" which I assume to mean the "basing" aspect of it. I'm not knocking basing, but you live in fantasy land if you think that restricting ppls fun in pub (what else is pub for??) is going to "play base" the way you idealize.

As I said in another thread, in theory I have nothing against levterrs, but as long as there are people in the same arena basing, it's retarded. As Kolar said, LTing feeds off basing. If there isn't anyone in base, what can an lt do? Pretty much nothing but go to a pub with more active basing. And don't start bitching "I know it's a bit frustrating for less skilled players, but I can dodge lev bombs." There is pretty much NOTHING you can do in base if you get lev bombed. I remember a post by Mythrandir (who btw is considered to be one of the best terrs ever in tw.) who said that he has tried different methods for a terr to stay alive in a pub with levterrs. He didn't find one. Fastest ship in tw=terr, fastest bomb=lev bomb. 1+1=pretty damn fast. And double lev bomb basically anywhere in screen=certain death.

So what happened to my previous suggestion? Let's have enough pure pubs so that everyone who want to base can go there and then have the pub for levterrs and spawn duelers (who aren't bothered of levs). Then we can have bots in the base that die when the base is bombed. Fun for basers and fun for LTs, yay.

This in response to the jav tking I mentioned. There is even another thread on jav tks in, I believe, the Staff folder. Then on to the sharks? Tking will never be completely gone without ruining your war machine. Shall we all have spiders? Sounds boring, friendly fire happens, levis jav, shark. Just a hazard of a wartime environment.

Now if we talk about the magnitude of these problems... If teamkilling in general was problems with printers, Jav teamkilling would be that the printer is 5% slower than other printers. Lev teamkilling would be that if you try to switch the printer on, you will die a painfull death and all your friends will lose a hand.

That in response to my comment on how a pub team failing to secure the top should be bombed. Again, is it less fun to have to secure the top? Maybe, but there are those who love the outside job, its more adventuresome, difficult, and rewarding.

As said before: roofing is NOT basing. I don't like roofing,and from what I've seen, most people don't. (at least in the sense of defense) Usually people who go roof don't do it to "secure the top" but just to lame the other team from above. Actually once this lev thing gets taken care of (hopefully soon), I'm going to concentrate on roof lamers, which is basically a variation of LTing.

You say at what point will it be a waste of time for everyone pubbing, THEN you call it PUBLIC BASING. <<--Your love of basing is not missed here. The point I'm making is that when we want base, well ?go base, or maybe even the 3 minute arena.

No it's not enough, the pure pubs are usually full, indicating there are lots of people who want to be there but can't.

*sigh*

Sadly, Kolar, you have to accept the fact that not everyone is upset with the way regular pub arena is.

Not everyone, but from what I've seen, majority of people in the forums are anti-levs.

Why can't we jsut be allowed to have a public arena for casual fun and, again, not having BASING shoved up our asses. Maybe the basers have already gone too far in changing TW. In the end, I held my tongue during all the changes, but I see now its getting out of hand. LT's cant be blamed for everything, and my main point is this is what many players were hooked on.

LTs aren't blamed for everything, LTs are blamed for LTing, plain and simple. And if I was hooked on going out on the street and killing people with a knife, should others let me do it?
Yes LTing can be a bit of a fun for other people, but for other people it's FUCKING ANNOYING.

Keep changing it to suit an ideal setting, and youll find that its not so ideal to everyone, like you hope. In other words, leave my part of trench alone, and I'll come visit in the basing arenas. I'm sure others have a similar love for casual pubs!!? :wub:
Sorry for the length, but I think I speak for many a pubber who is tired of all the diddling with what we have come to love, and know, as trench.

You keep telling you are speaking for many pubbers. Quit making retarded claims like that. If the pubbers don't want lev get changed, let them come to the forums and bitch themselves.

My final thought is to advise you and your ilk to not underestimate the levi's influence in this zone. Wise man say, He who seeks a levi, finds his own death. Wise man also say, He who kills ship 4, kills the zone.

He who kills ship 4 will get the respect from most of the community.

As I said in the beginning of my post, I'm not even trying to point out all your blatant errors. Actually I don't even hope my post will do anything revolutionary to your oppinions, but this is just part of your learning. If you keep playing the game long enough, you will start hating LTs.

[Kuukunen]

i'll never stop liking levis. i guess i will never be experienced enough to desire pubs to turn into a square box with no rocks, no base and nothing but warbirds

Yes, and you have clearly indicated how much value should be put on your oppinions.

[PEGASiS]