POLL: Should Javelins get XRadar back?

[Used Ink]

Just because a person or two in upper-staff thought the tiny weasel would make gameplay better in pubs doesn't mean it did.

The Weasel was shrunk when the ship radius setting was introduced to the game. I think it had a lot to do with the fact that it seemed cool at the time and that it fit (no pun) the role of being a sneaky ship.

Especially due to the new automated games in Pub0/1 it has become apparent that it disrupts basing. The flagroom no longer has only 1 entrance.

In their defense, I think that you cannot always accurately predict the effect of a change until you have actually tested it thoroughly in public.

By making the weasel big, you might as well remove it entirely.

Would you mind if the Weasel could keep its size and slip through all the tiny gaps, except the ones leading to the flag room? (special tiles)

[Clownboy56]

Without the cloakers going in the flag room holes, the game would require no skill. 1 choke point would be super lame.

[PH]

I suck too much to use the weasel when it's at a normal size! Take it out if you're gonna make it big! I want to use my fucking midget shitmobile to steal flags that I have no fucking right to even SNIFF! Boo-hoo! :crying:

The old weasel was an EXCELLENT ship in capable hands (i.e. your average one-week pub newbie couldn't use it for shit). In the right hands it could leave entire enemy freqs scratching their heads. Night after night, from the cockpit of my large weasel, I overheard things like "u cheating newbie" and "omg reported" at least 20 times, because I knew my ship's capabilities and limitations. If you can't be a little creative with a ship in some other way besides sneaking through holes like a faggot, don't use it. Leave it for those who can.

Tailoring ships to the tendencies of players who probably don't realize arenas outside of pub even EXIST has completely crippled public arenas. Next time, try listening to somebody with a bit of experience. I'd much rather see the weasel returned to the hands of the elite few anyway (Hi Rion. ) than watch this bullshit continue.

[Jeenyuss]

When exactly was the weasel shrunk down again? Could a mod clarify that for me? Thanks.

I voted for x-radar.

[Subjugation]

PH, you know you're my boy, but I don't see how you could sneak the fuck up on anyone with a large weasel if the jav, terr, and lanc have x-radar.

Or even if just 2 of those ships have x-radar with a large weasel.

[Clownballoon]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Why all the Weasel hate? I've been piloting that little ninja-ship for a long, long time, and I love the little thing to death, but it has some glaring weaknesses that people are free to exploit.

1. LANCS. If more people would base with these, flag-stealing newbie cloakers wouldn't be such a problem.

2. Javelins. Even without x-radar, they're a Weasel's worst nightmare. Sneaking into base is hazardous business, with Javs being as popular as they are. On your way into an enemy-occupied FR, you have to watch out for your own team's Javs on the outside of FR and enemy javs on the inside, both of which are obscenely trigger-happy. If a Jav bomb goes off anywhere near you, it's instant death, becase Weasels have --

3. Low, ridiculously slow-replenishing energy. If you've ever played as a Weasel, you know that they usually only have one chance to get things right, especially in FR. If a jav bomb goes off near one, or a stray shot (of which there are plenty) hits it, the poor Weasel either has to uncloak or retreat. Uncloaked in FR, Weasels usually last less than two seconds.

Now PH, frankly, I found this diatribe of yours very insulting!

I suck too much to use the weasel when it's at a normal size! Take it out if you're gonna make it big! I want to use my fucking midget shitmobile to steal flags that I have no fucking right to even SNIFF! Boo-hoo! :crying:

I'll have you know that flag-stealing is an art! Any attentive, half-competent team can stop the average weasel, and in FR, cloaked weasels have to dodge wildly just to reach the flag in the first place. And when it gets there, it only has one shot with which to fend off ships that want to re-capture it. One shot. That usually kills one ship at most, as you know. Two ships watching a flag usually defeat the entire Weasel strategy.

The old weasel was an EXCELLENT ship in capable hands (i.e. your average one-week pub newbie couldn't use it for shit). In the right hands it could leave entire enemy freqs scratching their heads. Night after night, from the cockpit of my large weasel, I overheard things like "u cheating newbie" and "omg reported" at least 20 times, because I knew my ship's capabilities and limitations. If you can't be a little creative with a ship in some other way besides sneaking through holes like a faggot, don't use it. Leave it for those who can.

Any ship can be excellent in capable hands. That doesn't mean that the old Weasel wasn't a shitheap. I salute you for being good at the old one, but it simply wasn't effective. It was hard as hell to sneak into FR with one, and once you got in, you had to pray that no Terrs saw you, as the old Weasel had even worse handling than the new one. It's hard dodging shots while cloaked in a small Weasel, and even harder in a large one. The one repel and rocket only gets you so far.

Oh, and sneaking in through holes is tougher than it sounds. The four near the main entrance are constantly being bombarded by Shark mines and Jav bombs, the two inside base to the left and right are being bombed and sniped through at practically all times, and the ones outside base are often meticulously guarded by paranoid Terrs. Oftentimes, a flag capture can only result from an amazing amount of luck. If you manage to get inside, you have to hope that the entire enemy team forgets that the flag exists for a solid three seconds in order to capture it.

Tailoring ships to the tendencies of players who probably don't realize arenas outside of pub even EXIST has completely crippled public arenas. Next time, try listening to somebody with a bit of experience. I'd much rather see the weasel returned to the hands of the elite few anyway (Hi Rion. ) than watch this bullshit continue.

Oh hush, it's not that bad. And Rion seems to be plenty good at the new Weasel too.

Now, for you folks who want to nerf the poor Weasel even more, here's what I think of your arguments.

Weasels are tough to hit when they're small, and they get into base too easily. They should be bigger! - I'll be the first to admit that Weasels are annoying little bastards, but the only thing that keeps them alive is their size. Anyone with good aim (or even poor aim with Spiders and Lancs) can make short work of a small Weasel, much less a large one. Also, reducing the number of entrances into base to a single bottleneck makes things boring, in my opinion.

Give Javs back their X-radar. That'll learn those little bastards! - Yes it would. Far, far too much. Javs are already tough as hell for a Weasel to cope with; letting the Javs actually SEE the Weasel would make flag-capturing absolutely impossible. Already, half or more of any given team consists of Javs, most of whom spend all their time pumping bombs through holes and into corners. When I sneak into FR, I simply have to hope that no Javs are sending bombs in my direction. If they had X-radar, I wouldn't even be able to enter base, much less survive for more than a few seconds inside. Giving Javs their X-radar back would defeat the entire purpose of using a Weasel.

Alright, howabout Spiders? - Sure, if you took X-radar away from Lancs in return. I have enough trouble dealing with ships with impossible-to-dodge shotgun shots, and I'd rather not have to worry about ships that can shoot at me as many times as they like as well. Remember, it takes one Spider shot to incapacitate a Weasel.

Screw it, just take Weasels out of the game. I hate those guys. - Sorry folks, but like it or not, Weasels are necessary. I know they're annoying, but they're essential to a good offense, and very useful for defense. Without them, the game would be reduced to guarding a bottleneck, a decent defending team could keep the base for ages, and those damned Terrs would never die. I like Pub 0 games because they're not like "pro" arenas; with a Weasel, I can tip the scales of battle by sneaking in and grabbing the flag, or killing a Terr. Both can be easily guarded against, but when I succeed, it gives my (usually hideously outclassed) team another chance. On defense, I can sneak past waves of incoming ships to kill an enemy Terr, potentially crippling the opposite team. Fun stuff.

I like my faggot weakling ninja-ship. Please don't make things harder for it.

[PH]

PH, you know you're my boy, but I don't see how you could sneak the fuck up on anyone with a large weasel if the jav, terr, and lanc have x-radar.

Or even if just 2 of those ships have x-radar with a large weasel.

I was notorious for my habits with the old weasel. Its specials were the key to its effective use. Among other functions, the repel gave you a shot to bust in the FR and the rocket gave you a shot at rushing your target. You still needed a team for it to truly be effective, though, which was another upside to the old weasel. When used for basing, it encouraged teamwork. The extent of this new weasel's role in teamwork? Attach to roof terrier, rush in, steal a flag that you haven't earned, suicide rush the enemy terr, repeat.

Lancs don't deserve X-Radar, since in almost everyone's mind they're a useless warbird/spider hybrid that's nowhere near as effective as either one of those and as such aren't used often enough. When terriers, javelins and the occasional shark could see Xs, and the weasel had a normal size, pub basing was actually enjoyable because the settings were a lot closer to true "balance" than they are now. I hate to use a Tone-esque term like that, but when weasels are only used for purposes of revenge, terrier assassination (that's right, these pieces of shit routinely gang up and dismember the ship that's supposed to be their toughest enemy) and stealing of flags that they don't fucking deserve... that's imbalance.

Sadly, even with the intelligent (aside from my occasional FUCKING swearing) debate that's been laid out on this subject, I'm sure staff is focused on more important things. Like what to do with the pub map for April Fool's.

That doesn't mean that the old Weasel wasn't a shitheap. I salute you for being good at the old one, but it simply wasn't effective. It was hard as hell to sneak into FR with one, and once you got in, you had to pray that no Terrs saw you, as the old Weasel had even worse handling than the new one. It's hard dodging shots while cloaked in a small Weasel, and even harder in a large one. The one repel and rocket only gets you so far.

The repel and rocket got me VERY far. I died a lot, which is inevitable anyway in basing, but I ALWAYS took enough people down with me to give my team a chance. Ask anyone who went up against me two years ago. You weren't going to find a better basing weasel, and if staff returns the ship to settings that don't cater to retards who don't even have enough usage for elim I'll be glad to show you why.

Javs are already tough as hell for a Weasel to cope with; letting the Javs actually SEE the Weasel would make flag-capturing absolutely impossible.

Boo-hoo! I don't want to work with my team or learn to get good! I'd rather be an annoying flag-stealing faggot! :crying:

[Clownballoon]

Boo-hoo! I don't want to work with my team! I'd rather be an annoying flag-stealing faggot! :crying:

Hey now, no name-calling. I get enough of that ingame.

Of course I'm working with my team. Every time I kill an enemy Terrier, I work with my team. Every time I steal an enemy flag with less than a minute left, I work with my team. Every time I kill a javelin who's guarding the bottleneck, I work with my team. I just work with my team in different ways than most. Sure, I could dash through the bottleneck in an enormous group like everyone else, but why is that necessary?

And of course I'm annoying. That's the mark of a good Weasel. I force enemy teams to watch the flag. Flags shouldn't have to take care of themselves, you know.

[PH]

Poll results so far: 171 yes, 26 no. You pussy weasel fucks are outnumbered over 6:1.

-nt-

[Clownballoon]

I hate to use a Tone-esque term like that, but when weasels are only used for purposes of revenge, terrier assassination (that's right, these pieces of shit routinely gang up and dismember the ship that's supposed to be their toughest enemy) and stealing of flags that they don't fucking deserve... that's imbalance.

I almost never see a team of Weasels. The things have such a bad rap that most people won't fly them. Again, if you don't want your Terr to get ganged up on, hire a goddamn Lanc. Problem solved. I know you don't like those ships either, but they have a purpose.

Oh, and you're saying that I don't deserve the flag? Here, let me go down the steps of flag-stealing for you.

1. Sneak in. Past the ever-constant Javelin bombs, snipers, and watchful Lancs/Terrs.

2. Don't get hit. This is a near-impossibility, with a dozen ships inside firing every which way, and a Terr or three trying to murder you.

3. Touch the flag. You have to chase off or kill whoever's guarding it, which isn't a simple task.

4. Keep the flag for three seconds. This is by far the hardest part. By the time you reach the flag, the entire base usually knows you're there. You can bet that at least one person will try to recapture the flag in time, and you'll have to keep him away from it, which is impossible if you've already wasted the single shot afforded to you. If two people or more are actually watching the flag, and aren't afraid of taking one for the team, you're boned.

I've deserved each and every flag I've ever captured from a decent team, thank you very much.

Poll results so far: 171 yes, 26 no. You pussy weasel fucks are outnumbered over 6:1.

I'll admit that I'm in the minority, but just because some people think that Weasels are annoying doesn't mean that the ships have to be completely ruined.

[PH]

You're neglecting the fact that the defending team also has to dodge a flurry of jav bombs and bursts from suicidal enemies, and are constantly dying themselves. But I guess it must be hard work to just sit and wait for a fluke burst or bomb to pick an enemy off so you can rush in and take credit for a flag steal even when your team clearly sucks and doesn't deserve to have the round extended. I'm sorry I haven't given you the credit you deserve, I meant no disrespect.

Psych. Go shoot yourself in the head, faggot.

[Clownballoon]

You're neglecting the fact that the defending team also has to dodge a flurry of jav bombs and bursts from suicidal enemies, and are constantly dying themselves. But I guess it must be hard work to just sit and wait for a fluke burst or bomb to pick an enemy off so you can rush in and take credit for a flag steal even when your team clearly sucks and doesn't deserve to have the round extended. I'm sorry I haven't given you the credit you deserve, I meant no disrespect.

You're right, I should blindly charge in instead of looking for weakness in the enemy's defense. God forbid I use actual strategy.

Unless every Terr gets picked off by that "fluke burst or bomb," every enemy ship is back in place within five seconds. Not enough time to make much progress. Also, remember that I'm just as prone to getting hit by a "fluke burst or bomb" as anyone else.

Psych. Go shoot yourself in the head, faggot.

[PH]

[Clownballoon]

[za gophar]

look, as far as i am concerned, the weasel could have a maximum energy of 1 and no recharge rate whatsoever. the fact that it kills people who have no chance to defend themselves is so annoying and that it should not be part of the game.

the weasel has the ability to TRUMP any ship without x-radar. it is impossible to beat something you cant see.

imagine you have 1000 bounty in warbird. you killed hundreds of people to get to this point. you own everyone. a cloaker named azn_d00d_1995 kills you (calling you an ez newb). how do you feel? the biggest newb in the game just killed the best one out there because there was nothing you could do to defend against it.

this illustrates the inherent lameness of the weasel. any newbie can kill anyone with the weasel regardless of how much more they suck and deserve to lose. this is totally unfair, considering the context of this game, which is to have a fun and fair competition.