Publics

[Pressure Drop]

i don't get this, making big changes too the map to make lev terring less effective.

if priv freqs are allowed and a shell erected around base, you will get LTs shooting through here

ruining both freqs basing then warping etc...
you'll get a group of say 4 ppl making a private freq being 1 terr 2 levs a shark and destroying base for everyone ...

LTs are to powerful, when on private freqs they are way to powerfull. If your new to the zone you generaly spawn and duel in wb, but when you adventure up to the flag it isn't fun to be blown to bits without a chance, and so LT's will put you off basing and even the zone if you get bored of dueling.


if you don't want to drasticaly change the weapon settings on the lev, you've got to make it unabble to attach. Otherwise you won't get good basing as lev ters will constantly pop up, 1/2 a team will have to hunt it (usualy ineffectively as you don't get many ppl on a public frequency aggreeing to terr/spid with antiwarp / lanc and shark together to try and get the lt properely). Even this Hunting ruins base as people are neglecting the base entirely leaving only a few atacking or defending etc ....


anyway priv freqs aren't for the new players we are talking about, i think at least pub 0 should remain priv freq free, levs or not

[Izor]

LTs are to powerful, when on private freqs they are way to powerfull. If your new to the zone you generaly spawn and duel in wb, but when you adventure up to the flag it isn't fun to be blown to bits without a chance, and so LT's will put you off basing and even the zone if you get bored of dueling.

You started playing in pure pub times I'm pretty sure. It's no surprise that you cant remember before that, when basers and levs coexisted, cause you werent here. This is the kind of input that I hate to see: its people who dont know what theyre talking about ranting. Almost everyone who 'graduated from pub' used to pub back then. And they didnt get 'put off' by anything. Basically you people just want to force basing down everyones throats cause you enjoy it. I understand why you would like to do that but its stupid. Restricting other aspects of the game in order to make people play that just takes away from the whole game. And yes, changing the map in the way you have described does detract from dueling.

No one here has seen me run 500+ bounty in wb, (1000 in sharkterr or levterr) most likely so they wouldnt understand that it takes the whole map, including and especially safes. Having one safe like moot suggested is going to breed a whole new type of lamer that just sits there to kill people entering. Bringing in the asteroids will shrink spawn zone or make it very difficult to leave spawn zone trying to duel.

Having a 'courtyard' seems confusing to me..whats the purpose of it? I imagine the entrance to base is where it currently is, but you just brought the bottom left circle and bottom right circle down, making the 'banana' shape youre talking about. This is just more crap to get in the way of people dueling, aside from probably looking quite ridiculous.

'Pubshield': PD pointed it out also, theres plenty of other shots which will slam midbase and annoy the attacking freq before they eventually are forced to warp out

No private freqs: good lord, you're contemplating keeping this feature and saying that you dont want drastic changes in pubs? Look at pub 0 then any other pub. There are 1000000 idiots in javs and sharks tking and 20 camping spids. Thats what we call basing now? sign me up. Oops, forgot about the 3 x's on the losing team that suicide at the flag.

anyway priv freqs aren't for the new players we are talking about, i think at least pub 0 should remain priv freq free, levs or not

Again, this is telling people what they should be playing instead of letting them decide for themselves. Some of the players I remember from my earlier days were like J12-Burst, he'd spawn you and you would have a hard time at first killing him 5 times to make him stfu, especially when he cloaked you at 4. But it was enjoyable to try, much more than say..holding a pointless flag for no reason.

Also, while you're gung-ho about invasive and complex basing changes, why are you ignoring something simple like a streak module being implemented? Lots of other zones have them, they're fun and people enjoy them.

Just with these changes try and keep in mind that more often than not newbs like to log on to this game to shoot spaceships randomly, not to collect a flag. It seems that no one can understand that simple fact. Something much more subtle would get the point across that basing is the 'objective' of pub without forcing people to go into the fr cause theres nothing else to do.

My suggestions for this so far are:

- close up the ear again so that people cant take that ridiculous shot
- Leave pub map the way it is except for ^
- Implement an alternating cycle of time race, point race, and most points for some variety to enhance basing.
- Implement a streak/bounty module to enhance dueling and LTing
- Stop using the rest of purepub bots (levs/privs)

The key with my train of thought is choice. Your objectives list that people should go pub->elim/belim/base->TWD->TWL when in fact these changes are making it so that people can only go pub->base->TWBD->TWLB. The idea of shrinking the spawn zone is like if someone tried to shrink the base so that duelers could have more room, say by cutting out the lower part up to the tube. I know you're going to whine and say 'theres still plenty of room' but since you're basers, you dont know how much room it takes.

[Supreme Authority]

I'll say it for the 3rd or 4th time ... reduce one-hit-kill radius for levs. So simple. Increases the skill needed to do be a successful lev/LT. Does not require a change in fundamental gameplay/dynamics of the ships. Does not require a change in map. Lev can still be the lev. LTs can still LT. Basers can still base (just hafta worry a little bit about levs). AND levs can potentially be incorporated as a BASING SHIP. GG.

You do realise that if you have 2 levs on a terr one accidently usually kills of the other lev(everyone makes mistakes) if you reduce radius, that is less likely to happen therefor u can have 3 levs on a single terr, increasing the annoying factor of the lev, the constant bombig! , at least thats the way i see it :fear:

[Dameon Angell]

I don't think the levis are worth 3 pages of grief. I was playing as a Terrier in Pub 0 just now. Fun times .. fun times, I'm not too bad at terring .. kinda fun .. maybe try it in a BD or something. Anyways, the whole game we're being harassed by X's in the roof, coming out, cloaking everyone including myself. And shit, I can see the bastard coming, but there's no hiding from one coming at you at 100 k/mph and firing at the same time. I don't mind the big ones, but these tiny little bastards gotta go.

When you have a ship that outperforms and dominates the map like that, gone is your sense of "balance" .

[Mootland Farmer]

No one here has seen me run 500+ bounty in wb, (1000 in sharkterr or levterr) most likely so they wouldnt understand that it takes the whole map, including and especially safes. Having one safe like moot suggested is going to breed a whole new type of lamer that just sits there to kill people entering. Bringing in the asteroids will shrink spawn zone or make it very difficult to leave spawn zone trying to duel.

Maybe we should cut out the third safe, that'll stop the lamers! Once again, this zone is about basing, and yes I did mention that other gameplays would still be able to do their thing. In this new map, they can still duel.

Having a 'courtyard' seems confusing to me..whats the purpose of it? I imagine the entrance to base is where it currently is, but you just brought the bottom left circle and bottom right circle down, making the 'banana' shape youre talking about. This is just more crap to get in the way of people dueling, aside from probably looking quite ridiculous.

As Troll King said, it provides another target for LeviTerrs. Since walls and LeviTerrs are just like bread and butter. The courtyard is also a place where duelers can duel.

'Pubshield': PD pointed it out also, theres plenty of other shots which will slam midbase and annoy the attacking freq before they eventually are forced to warp out

Maybe. As you said, there will always be shots that LeviTerrs can do. Though I think the attacking players have more chance against LeviTerrs, as does the defenders.

No private freqs: good lord, you're contemplating keeping this feature and saying that you dont want drastic changes in pubs? Look at pub 0 then any other pub. There are 1000000 idiots in javs and sharks tking and 20 camping spids. Thats what we call basing now? sign me up. Oops, forgot about the 3 x's on the losing team that suicide at the flag.

Yeah, this zone is about teamwork. It is hard to get a random collection of people to go for the flag as a team, but it can be done, and it has been proven. Players need to know the best way to attack/defend base and right now, they have no idea. There are no older players to guide/teach them, there's nothing anywhere detailing the ships functions and their uses in base (something I've kinda been working on).

Again, this is telling people what they should be playing instead of letting them decide for themselves. Some of the players I remember from my earlier days were like J12-Burst, he'd spawn you and you would have a hard time at first killing him 5 times to make him stfu, especially when he cloaked you at 4. But it was enjoyable to try, much more than say..holding a pointless flag for no reason.

I never found anything of the sort you've mentioned above fun. I self-taught myself to base and I have enjoyed it ever since. This is something we (staff) and the Trench Wars community can promote; basing, and how fun it can be.

Also, while you're gung-ho about invasive and complex basing changes, why are you ignoring something simple like a streak module being implemented? Lots of other zones have them, they're fun and people enjoy them.

I'm just pointing out my arguement for it. We could try streak modules, we could try anything. I won't brush aside any other ideas.

Just with these changes try and keep in mind that more often than not newbs like to log on to this game to shoot spaceships randomly, not to collect a flag. It seems that no one can understand that simple fact. Something much more subtle would get the point across that basing is the 'objective' of pub without forcing people to go into the fr cause theres nothing else to do.

As Richard said, players can still shoot each other in basing? Hell, they can shoot each other in the spawn area too. We're (I'm) not forcing anyone to base, we are encouraging players to base, showing them how exciting it can be.

[Jones]

lol, izor is the one with logic in this thread it seems, everyone else is saying the same stuff over and over and over again.

Trench Wars main aspect is basing, but the leagues are no doubt in favour of the dueling aspect. I dont care what happens inbetween, in pubs i pub in elim i elim, in base i play base. changing the maps and adding bots and more systems is not the solution in my opinion, sure it would be great with a 'neat' pub-basing system (which already is in use fyi) but it is already ruined by too many javs and 1px cloakers, oh and for the fact that we talk about NEW players here.

if you want to change the map just to dodge the lt's you're going for the wrong direction, if a map is ruined or changed because of one ship only then it's the one ship that has problems, not everything else. also, "pure basing" will never happen to pub's as competitive as you may want it to since warbirds are too good for the enemy terrs most of the time.

so what can i do but complain?
nothing really im just a player after all

my ideas are: if you have a new better basing system for purepubs than it is now, go for it. do not change the map (if you want to change it though, remove the holes on the roof, change the weasel back to its original size.

edit: since we talk about pure pubs i hope, i take it granted that no private freq's are allowed and the levi is gone. for pubs with no pure pub let it stay the same

oh yea to prevent idiotic basers reply to this let me inform you that i spent my days basing this season

[Fluffz]

edit: since we talk about pure pubs i hope, i take it granted that no private freq's are allowed and the levi is gone. for pubs with no pure pub let it stay the same

hello? did you just travel trough time back from when not everyone could see clearly that THIS is not working in the long run? why the heck do u think everyone crys for a change if everything is ok?!

[Lemmin]

I said this on the similar thread in the dev forum, but it might be worth saying it here.

The original incentive to base was points. If you are on the flag holding team you get extra points when you make a kill, and you get bonus points every so often.

These days, noone cares about points, they care about kill/death ratio and getting a high bounty.

If we could find some way to re-emphasise the points system, it would encourage a lot more basing, and it would discourage LTing (which is normally on a priv freq).

At the moment very few even realise they are accruing points - theres a leaderboard on the TW homepage, but its ignore. If we start with something as simple as zonering the highest points holders, and the squads with the most points, after each reset, it would bring peoples attention back to the points issue. Maybe we could think of more incentives to collect points? Something along the lines of Pure_lucks reward program, where the highest pointholder from last week gets something cool this week?

Instead of trying to force people to base, we need to encourage them. Rather than taking their choices away if they don't base, can't we think of something more to give them if they DO base?

LEM

[Fluffz]

im in
a) points to buy events
b) points to buy *arena messages
c) points to buy zoners
d) points to buy bricks
e) points to buy thors
the possibilities are endless

and other special stuff for the top 5 squads/people

[Izor]

k im gonna need to look at this map I think, but theres a reason why levis dont shoot at duelers over basers (they can easily line up shots into say..the bar in spawn currently but dont)

1) risk is not worth the reward. That is, if you're flying in the open and wbs see you theyre going to shoot at you. why would you allow that to happen when you can lob strays at unsuspecting basers.

2) I believe it was rich that said it in another thread: levis want the ZOMGOMG XFER!!1!1 wbs are usually spread out so that wont happen, and the whole process is slow.

I dont know how you expect people to fight in a base and call that dueling. It's two incredibly different things. And this courtyard seems like the walls will be kinda close together since the levs need to be able to pick on people. Dunno how you play wbs, but every time I'm in base soloing its 'hide behind walls and wait for them to mess up', and if i mess up its time to hit insert. Its completely different than say floating around in spawn zone where you dont have to worry about anything. It takes lots of room to evade someones rush if they're half decent. Doesnt seem like this new arena is geared toward allowing that.

Yeah, this zone is about teamwork. It is hard to get a random collection of people to go for the flag as a team, but it can be done, and it has been proven. Players need to know the best way to attack/defend base and right now, they have no idea. There are no older players to guide/teach them, there's nothing anywhere detailing the ships functions and their uses in base (something I've kinda been working on).

That doesnt respond to my point that private freqs change the face of the pub its implemented in. Also, it will stop people from levterring. If you do that, it will be no different than purepubs are now.

I never found anything of the sort you've mentioned above fun. I self-taught myself to base and I have enjoyed it ever since. This is something we (staff) and the Trench Wars community can promote; basing, and how fun it can be.

I never claimed to be the only person that went through pub. Everyone has their own stories. I'm just telling you what it was like for me, and probably pretty much every player who plays only wb and doesnt give a damn about the base. There are a lot of us you know hopefully.

As Richard said, players can still shoot each other in basing? Hell, they can shoot each other in the spawn area too. We're (I'm) not forcing anyone to base, we are encouraging players to base, showing them how exciting it can be.

lol, you think the 2 are the same cause you shoot ships? Theres a difference between bombing a wall to kill 6 people or holding ctrl in a spid and having your lined up shots kill people who are trying to get in, and beating someone in a wb cause you make them mess up/took a nice shot. You also dont have to worry about teammates when you're playing solo. I'm sure I dont need to explain the difference to you..I dont know why you said that.

As for not forcing people into base, you are. You obviously dont know anything about the other aspects of the game if you're going to change pub so much, and expect things to be the same. Again I dont know how small this new map is going to be but if its anything like I imagine (and I do probably imagine it close to what it is) there will be few places to hide in a warbird. Meaning x's will have lots of fun being able to hunt the ones with higher bounty since they'll have less space to look in.

Suggesting removing some safes just shows how little you know about the game overall though, no offense. Whereas someone like me has experience in pretty much every aspect of playing pub, you've only ever based in it. Any other levterr or bounty player will tell you that safes are necessary, and lots of em. What I like to call "Stage 5 obsessed pubbers" have a tactic where they guess what safety you're going to go to to take a break. Then they proceed to sit there for up to 15 minutes waiting for the opportunity to kill you before you become invincible for a while. Of course, just the thought of removing them shows me that you dont understand why people who have been playing for an hour straight on the same death with 500 bounty and 4 people chasing them might want to take a break, stretch out, and let the angry newbies simmer down. A baser would not understand the importance of that, seeing as how when he gets bored of playing he can simply spec. He hasnt worked for the past however long on anything particularly important so there is no need to sit in a safe to preserve that.

EDIT: no one ever cared about points. EVER

EDIT2: however I think that is something that you can work with. A point reward system sounds fun. But how do you just like..subtract 10000 points from someones score..make them spam ?buy decoy? Regardless thats another thing that would entice basing without bringing about some huge settings/map change that will ultimately bring about other problems.

[Jones]

hello? did you just travel trough time back from when not everyone could see clearly that THIS is not working in the long run? why the heck do u think everyone crys for a change if everything is ok?!

wtf

[Mootland Farmer]

I dont know how you expect people to fight in a base and call that dueling. It's two incredibly different things. And this courtyard seems like the walls will be kinda close together since the levs need to be able to pick on people. Dunno how you play wbs, but every time I'm in base soloing its 'hide behind walls and wait for them to mess up', and if i mess up its time to hit insert. Its completely different than say floating around in spawn zone where you dont have to worry about anything. It takes lots of room to evade someones rush if they're half decent. Doesnt seem like this new arena is geared toward allowing that.

There is a base for players who want to base, and there is a spawn area for players to duel.

That doesnt respond to my point that private freqs change the face of the pub its implemented in. Also, it will stop people from levterring. If you do that, it will be no different than purepubs are now.

Good. Maybe LeviTerrs will become team-orientated and help attack defend base from the opposing team.

Suggesting removing some safes just shows how little you know about the game overall though, no offense. Whereas someone like me has experience in pretty much every aspect of playing pub, you've only ever based in it. Any other levterr or bounty player will tell you that safes are necessary, and lots of em. What I like to call "Stage 5 obsessed pubbers" have a tactic where they guess what safety you're going to go to to take a break. Then they proceed to sit there for up to 15 minutes waiting for the opportunity to kill you before you become invincible for a while. Of course, just the thought of removing them shows me that you dont understand why people who have been playing for an hour straight on the same death with 500 bounty and 4 people chasing them might want to take a break, stretch out, and let the angry newbies simmer down. A baser would not understand the importance of that, seeing as how when he gets bored of playing he can simply spec. He hasnt worked for the past however long on anything particularly important so there is no need to sit in a safe to preserve that

Although it pains me to say this, I was LeviTerring before you came onto the scene, with MADCOWZ and LevTerr, then I woke up. All you're showing above is/an individual(s) playing with themselves. This zone is about teamwork, and fighting for the flag, not self-obsessed bounty.

[Doc Flabby]

Whatever changes are made. they need to apply to all the pubs.

All the pubs need to be the same, anything else is damaging.

[Lemmin]

Sorry, I still don't understand why having different pubs is damaging. Moot has tried to explain it, but I can't see it.

Whats the logic behind that statement? As I see it, having different pubs allows for different types of gameplay. I'd be annoyed if all pubs were like pub0, timed-game players would hate it if all pubs were like pub2... can't we cater for everyone by having more than one type of pub?

How is it damaging to do that? I'm willing to be persuaded, I just need someone to explain it.

LEM

[Izor]

Although it pains me to say this, I was LeviTerring before you came onto the scene, with MADCOWZ and LevTerr, then I woke up. All you're showing above is/an individual(s) playing with themselves. This zone is about teamwork, and fighting for the flag, not self-obsessed bounty.

And there is the problem. Because as you matured as a player and what became fun for you changed, you now feel it is your right and duty to impose upon others what you feel is fun and 'the purpose of the game', no matter how badly it might spoil this game for a player who is where you were 5 years ago.

I truly question how you feel you can just declare basing as the primary focus of this zone, and then proceed to start making map changes that fuck over anything else people might find fun cause you want more people to play base. I guess since a lot of people who post here are basers, it seems like the community is in favor of that kind of movement. Perhaps you should look at twdivisions.org. But since I doubt you have ever looked at that site to see what the community likes, I'll do it for you




You would think if basing was some great thing, that people would play it more often, right? But no, people are playing wb. That is why LD has been and will continue to be the premiere league in this zone. Its great that people like basing and all, but there is no need to force basing on people in pub. Pub is where a player should come in and choose what aspect of tw he likes most.


Lem - when a new player comes into one of those bottom pubs its just not fun, that is the logic behind that statement. The top pubs are without a doubt more fun, and they suck the life out of those. Whats the point of having levterrs fly around if all the basers can go to a pub that doesnt allow them? Furthermore, newer players who may want to base will be discouraged because no one else is there, and they're getting pounded by greedy levis who see their only target. It used to be that they'd see smarter players shooting through holes strategically to get the LTs (Talon + Daze + some whiterabbits) but now those smarter players are in the top 2 pubs, and no one is there to stop them from being killed over and over and over again.

also, its foolish to think that levterrs will at any point become team oriented...only guy I've really seen consistently do that was 'police123' or something. He'd sit mainly off to the side of the tube and have his 3 levs shoot down as people would come up