An interesting conversation with Mootland about Pub I would like you to read.

[DJSlayer]

Sumpson has some good ideas ... they are all being misinterpreted though ... -_-

Having an MVP and end of game layout similar to ?go base would work. It adds some kind of goal to basing without saying, "you must base, get yo ass in there" However ... it has been stated and agreed on numerous times that pub is about putting emphasis on basing without limiting any ships and what can be done in base. So ... limiting levis is just stupid.

Adding a bot to get more goals while basing in pub will (in theory) increase competitiveness in pub while still making it possible to LT ... although, I've heard about 10 million shouts of, "try making sugestions when you actually pub" so ... I'ma shutup now =P Spamming on forums will never get the pubbers opinion so this in thoery is pointless.

Go spam your idea in pub Sump then see what people? You'll be plesantly surprised how many people wouldn't want levi limited ... and how many want the levi adjusted. I've even seen Lt'ers say they wanna be able to LT in a way more useful to basing ... current LTing just involves everyone in FR dying ... including teammates, which is just stupid!

[Mootland Farmer]

Agreed. Limiting ships is definitely not the way to go unless it was all out. From the past few days I've seen a few cool things. I was monitoring a public and I saw a team protect a Leviathan into base and take out the opposition team. I've seen Leviathans in flagroom fights and only stuff near the bomb died, meaning the whole of one side wasn't obliterated. Giving the enemy Terrier a chance to hide in lower or in the ear of flagroom from the blast.

[Chao.]

I think more people first need to realize what TK said: If anything, these changing are making the levi actually BALANCED with the other ships. Too many seem unwilling to acknowledge that for far too long those bombs were too strong.

[Sumpson]

A poll like this might be a good idea:

I would like to have the levi's limited to 1 a freq
I would like the shipsettings of the levi to be balanced
I don't play levi neither do I care about it

--

Mootland, a levi protected, that's nice, I think when there is only 1 levi a freq it will be allot more meaningfull, the story which you discribed will be more likely to happen with 1 levi a freq.

[Mootland Farmer]

Mootland, a levi protected, that's nice, I think when there is only 1 levi a freq it will be allot more meaningfull, the story which you discribed will be more likely to happen with 1 levi a freq.

It happened without ship limitations.

[DJSlayer]

Sump ... you got some good arguments and I can see the logic behind them but ... I think the general idea is that if we started putting ship limitations in pub it would no longer be what pub is meant to be, it starts to turn into another ?go base.

Don't start whining about me making assumptions and jumping the gun here but you limit levis to 1 per freq ... eventually people will start whining about that and they will be disabled in all pubs. Next people will target the weasel and that will be limited and eventually disabled ... then what comes next? Pub is perfect? I doubt it ... next it will be ... "limit javs cause of tking newbs" or ... "lamecasters are over-powered get rid of them"

When you start to limit stuff people expect all ships causing the smallest problem should be limited ... eventually leading to pub becoming terrs, sharks and spids only ... which is NOT what is wanted.

If you wanna whine about liking the old settings and the zone being killed because of changed settings ... why don't we just put everything back to how it was when TW first started? Because it was changed for the better/still working on improving. Original settings were good ... zone started to die ... changes were made ... zone picked up again ... zone is starting to die again ... now we changing to make sure we can get the flow back again.

Unless drastic changes were made then the chances of another DSB is unlikely so ... stop ya worrying, and I'm confident if the changes were THAT bad Moot would have the sense to put it back again. He's not as stupid as he looks you know, contrary to popular belief. =P

[Mootland Farmer]

The reason why we don't/shouldn't have ship limitations; A theory by one of my dear friends, which I happen to agree.

When Leviathans were removed partially from Publics, if you had been playing in Pure Publics, you may have noticed that there was an increase in Javelins and team killing. Why? Because there was nothing to blast them of the walls, so instead they camped in flagroom lobbing bombs into mid-base. Great. Then when the weasel was changed, it was found to be dueling Warbirds and Terriers. Pretty much not the point of the weasel.

What I am getting at is that major changes or limitations on ships adversely affected other ships, which wasn't the desired effect of the changes in the first place.

By bringing back Leviathans, we are also removing team killing Javelins. By changing the Weasel (for example), we are brining it back to what it should be, an assassin, just like the Leviathan is a siege weapon.

[Sumpson]

Sump ... you got some good arguments and I can see the logic behind them but ... I think the general idea is that if we started putting ship limitations in pub it would no longer be what pub is meant to be, it starts to turn into another ?go base.

Don't start whining about me making assumptions and jumping the gun here but you limit levis to 1 per freq ... eventually people will start whining about that and they will be disabled in all pubs. Next people will target the weasel and that will be limited and eventually disabled ... then what comes next? Pub is perfect? I doubt it ... next it will be ... "limit javs cause of tking newbs" or ... "lamecasters are over-powered get rid of them"

When you start to limit stuff people expect all ships causing the smallest problem should be limited ... eventually leading to pub becoming terrs, sharks and spids only ... which is NOT what is wanted.

If you wanna whine about liking the old settings and the zone being killed because of changed settings ... why don't we just put everything back to how it was when TW first started? Because it was changed for the better/still working on improving. Original settings were good ... zone started to die ... changes were made ... zone picked up again ... zone is starting to die again ... now we changing to make sure we can get the flow back again.

Unless drastic changes were made then the chances of another DSB is unlikely so ... stop ya worrying, and I'm confident if the changes were THAT bad Moot would have the sense to put it back again. He's not as stupid as he looks you know, contrary to popular belief. =P

You seem very anti ship limiting, you know it must be horrible to the levi's now to not be able to fight against basing.

This is what you have in pure pubs, no levi playing at all, now that's what i call limiting ships.

change settings to solve the problem?

is there a problem?

basing can't happen with levi's around.

is it true?

no.



changing settings doesnt seem like an option to me, its what makes the game, and what gets people online for.

neither do I think it is needed.
1 levi a freq would make the game competitive and interesting. who will get the levi, who will have the most points to be able to choose the levi?
And finally the levi has its meaning, being brutal to basing. but can it? not if a team works together for basing, its just one levi.
The levi would need allot of protection which would get people have to work together on their goal and win the basing game.

I think its good yes

[Mootland Farmer]

You seem very anti ship limiting, you know it must be horrible to the levi's now to not be able to fight against basing.

This is what you have in pure pubs, no levi playing at all, now that's what i call limiting ships.

change settings to solve the problem?

is there a problem?

basing can't happen with levi's around.

is it true?

no.

As I have explained many times to you, one of the goals for better Public competition and consistency is that all ships are allowed in every arena. Do you see Leviathan limitations in Publics now? No, you don't. As I've also explained to you I'm trying to steer away from as well. Basing can't happen with Leviathans? Yes it certainly can. I've seen evidence if it because I actually play in Publics. Is there a problem? Yes, it's you.

changing settings doesnt seem like an option to me, its what makes the game, and what gets people online for.

People are naturally scared of change. This is a basic managerial concept. Trench Wars has continually changed in terms of ship settings. Even before I played there were many ship setting changes, and that was far before the peak of Trench Wars. Who's to say these changes won't have the same either?

neither do I think it is needed.
1 levi a freq would make the game competitive and interesting. who will get the levi, who will have the most points to be able to choose the levi?
And finally the levi has its meaning, being brutal to basing. but can it? not if a team works together for basing, its just one levi.
The levi would need allot of protection which would get people have to work together on their goal and win the basing game.

A team can work together and eliminate Leviathans and LTs right now, instead of bitching, despite the Leviathan being slightly underpowered as it was before.

[Kontrolz]

changing settings doesnt seem like an option to me, its what makes the game, and what gets people online for.

If you need to limit how many of any ship a freq is allowed to use then it is overpowered and doesn't add/help to pub (keyword being pub) action. It's clear that changing some settings are necessary.

As far as there not being problem, you haven't played this zone that long Sump, and when you started you didn't even play pub for that long. I've been playing in TW publics daily since 1999-2000 (and off and on since 98). I also still play pub daily. I think I just have to let you know since you seem to be ignorant on the subject, yes there is a problem more than one actually. But instead of getting into every single problem with settings I'll just address the one that appears in this thread over and over and many other threads:

people who don't pub or who haven't pub'd in years need to stop trying to act like they know what's best for pubs.

If you don't even think there is a problem with pub settings (which you've stated over and over again sump) then it's obvious you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Hopefully "telling" you there is will inform you and maybe open your eyes, coming from a real pubber.

[Predator Rulez]

I couldn't be arsed to read the whole conversation.. You lost me in the middle.. a summary would have been nice..

Anyways.. I'm sticking with moot.. he knows his stuff..

[Sumpson]

people who don't pub or who haven't pub'd in years need to stop trying to act like they know what's best for pubs.

Try to make sense and tell me why i'm wrong instead of making useless comments like these.

And yes your right, the day I started playing TW I started playing ?go base. I started playing TW after about 5 years of subspace, I have played a couple zones, and owned a couple zones. TW Pub doesn't make sense to me, Its not intense.


oh yah btw:

is there a problem?

basing can't happen with levi's around.

is it true?

no.

This does only say that the problem is not too big for a need of shipchanges.
The problem is you can't base with levi's around when there's like 10 levi's on a freq. You can with 1 on a freq.

[RageRitual]

As much as I HATE levi's, limiting them in a "pub" feels like a bad idea, I mean it is pub as many have said previously in this thread. Maybe levi's would not be as bad if they were not able to join a pub and be attached to a terrier 30 seconds later from people switching freq and suiciding to get the levi's bounty up. This is why the levi is lame, they come in, get bounty up without having to earn it, then they attach to a terrier. The terrier does all the work setting up shots, all the levi really has to do is push the fire key on their keyboard when the terrier is lined up. I ask you where is the skill? They get this overpowered bomb they lob around killing everything in site (friendly or not) without haven to earn a single kill.

Anyone consider that? Maybe I am simply rambling, but it needs to be adressed.

[Leaf]

Gah, only read like 3/4 of the first page.
My opinions about public is this:

Before the pure pub bots came I never played pub, maybe went into wb once in a while killing in spawn getting some bounty.
But now I can actually play pub some times, I really agree with Sump getting the MVP changing into 1 person because now it's just crap.
TW is still dead, no one is ever playing baseelim and I have to fucking complaint, no one ever fucking hosts, and when they do it's crapevents. I've seen Left_Eye doing a good job but rest is just fucking around, for fucks sake. More staffers than ever and still you host crap and taking no requests at all, instead I get warned for stating my opinion in staff chat or getting a !stfu tell for asking something valid, way to improve the zone! I actually thought being gone for a while would make me want to play SS again but with TW like this, I might aswell remove the game from my computer.

Edit: Sorry if I post the complaints here but people might actually read this ^_^

[Eck.]

IM WITH U ALL THE WAY trenchwars is getting ruined and its pissing me off



Over my Head: Don't care. You don't speak to me like that


WHO THE FUK ARE YOU dont speak to me like that ROFLMMFAO

Moderators really do think there gods or sumthing dont they

Can all u mods email me ur addresses and what time ur usally home so we can um talk about stuff