++++ Small Weasel Petition ++++

[Kontrolz]

The point of basing is to grab and HOLD the flag. Those small weasels are not made for holding the flag-room. They are made for resetting the flag and destroying whatever form of basing was going on. I made an earlier post in this thread that refers to this.

This weekend with the small cloakers should be a nice reminder for everyone, they absolutely destroy any form of "basing" that may take place in pure pub.

There was some nice basing going on for about 20 minutes, some good back and forth then, then small weasel douches start up. After you see one five more are sure to follow within a couple of minutes and that's exactly what happened.

Now you've got one freq with a good mix of spids/terrs/sharks/lancs/javs against another freq with over five weasels just slipping in through the cracks. What happens to the well balanced freq? Glad you asked, they all turn javelin to try to kill the cloakers and eventually it turns into a javelin vs. weasel elim/tk fest and any real basers leave.

Pure pub my ass. Thank god this is only for the weekend.

Edit: Maybe if the reset buffer time was increased to 10 seconds it wouldn't be a big deal.

[DankNuggets]

Ship settings are universal for public arenas. You can't have different publics with different ship settings.

Edit: Also, for purepub?! They did more harm to basing than cloaking the other over-powered ship.

more harm? more harm in that they actually served a purpose: to quickly reset the flag timer or kill an unaware terrier.

right now they serve no purpose. which is exactly how the basing population likes it seemingly. They want everyone in ship 3,5,8. That's not pub, that's ?go base.

The small weasel had many more counters than the current one. The only counter to the current weasel is its horrible bullet speed and it's overall ship speed.

1) Ships 2,5,6,7,8 had/have x-radar capabilities. That leaves warbirds, spiders, and levis (who are restricted) that are suceptable to cloaked attacks.
2) Small weasels could not cloak+stealth infinitely


The only bad thing I can see is that sometimes (actually quite often) the weasel did not die while turreting. I hardly see this as a major problem for basing in purepub.

The manuverability and bullet speed of the small weasel made it useful UNCLOAKED. That meant that not everyone in a weasel went around cloaked 100% of the time --- they had to pick the right time to cloak and move quickly to kill someone. They also policed themselves quite well.

The big weasel has a repel. That basically makes it 1/3 of a shark. Any of the pointless !team calculations telling me we need to change ppl into sharks or we have too many of them are based on the REPEL action of sharks (they're already limited in the mines they can use so having more than 2 doesn't affect that aspect). It's not a big deal, but it's a balance issue. In purepub, the only ship with a repel should be the shark, period.

[Ronn]

Ship settings are universal for public arenas. You can't have different publics with different ship settings.

Edit: Also, for purepub?! They did more harm to basing than cloaking the other over-powered ship.

What do you mean harm purepub? They added some competition it was fun trying to grab the flag with a weasel in the last seconds and when you did the game got that more important to win.

[Kontrolz]

I have an idea seeing as they will only listen to what the LTs want why not bring back the small weasel for the pure pub map and keep the slow fat retard weasel in the other pub.

LTs wont get hunted down and we can still have fun basing with the small weasels.

Ship settings are universal for public arenas. You can't have different publics with different ship settings.

Edit: Also, for purepub?! They did more harm to basing than cloaking the other over-powered ship.

[Ronn]

I have an idea seeing as they will only listen to what the LTs want why not bring back the small weasel for the pure pub map and keep the slow fat retard weasel in the other pub.

LTs wont get hunted down and we can still have fun basing with the small weasels.

[Kaiten]

Small weasels ftmfw

Consider it SIGNED

[jngy slate]

*signs*

[DankNuggets]

actually i'm going to be specific

pretty please bring back the little weasel's settings... the small ship and shitty settings aren't fun for anybody.

[Ronn]

Please bring back the small weasel.

[CaptainPoopface]

NO beacuase this is not what pub should look like.

bad enough they even did that with decoys as well

With qan's voting system in place, if this happens, the pub can now vote to restrict the number of weasels. So that objection to the weasel disappears.

So.... Can we try putting the previous weasel back now please?



^^ And I agree with Raver420 about this

[DankNuggets]

But the weasel's impact on basing was a significant part of its appeal to me, and I don't think many people would use the weasel at all if it were only in the non-basing impure pub. The lev was restricted from purepub, I presume, because it made people sad in their pants for the entire FR to be obliterated by one LT from outside. It was to improve the basing game, which it certainly did. Although it is often contested, I think allowing the old weasel in purepub would also improve basing. Purepub collapses and dies when one team is getting smoked. The old weasel was an equalizer that made it much harder for one team to utterly dominate the other, thereby keeping the game lively.

I'm all for considering new things, and finding (or at least trying!) something other than the current sucky weasel configuration. However, shark, lanc, jav, terr, and (formerly) weasel have x-radar. Really, it is not hard to defend the holes against weasels. The terrier x-radar costs minimal energy. Etc. This argument has been made already so I won't belabor it here.

The point is, I don't agree with Dank on this particular suggestion, but I do agree that something else should be tried.

I'd be willing to give up the thrust firing, or the triple shot, but not both.
I'd consider L2 bullets, like the lanc or spider single fire.
I think sneaking through cracks is important, as well as finite cloak + stealth.

If we clearly understand what the weasel haters hate and what the weasel lovers love, we could find a compromise. If every ship could green or buy x-radar, for example, then the cloaking advantage would be almost eliminated, and then it would just be a matter of setting the x-radar price and the energy cost to have it on. I think that's an extreme example and not the right idea, but you see my point? There's a continuum here. How about if the ships that can't have x-radar can buy a very small (1-tile) brick to patch holes with? Or a Thor's Hammer that has zero velocity, so those ships effectively could mine the holes.

There are many knobs we could twiddle to find something better for everyone.

FTR, i completely agree with you. I'm trying to form a compromise between the people who think it destroys basing and those that think it helps it.

[CaptainPoopface]

But the weasel's impact on basing was a significant part of its appeal to me, and I don't think many people would use the weasel at all if it were only in the non-basing impure pub. The lev was restricted from purepub, I presume, because it made people sad in their pants for the entire FR to be obliterated by one LT from outside. It was to improve the basing game, which it certainly did. Although it is often contested, I think allowing the old weasel in purepub would also improve basing. Purepub collapses and dies when one team is getting smoked. The old weasel was an equalizer that made it much harder for one team to utterly dominate the other, thereby keeping the game lively.

I'm all for considering new things, and finding (or at least trying!) something other than the current sucky weasel configuration. However, shark, lanc, jav, terr, and (formerly) weasel have x-radar. Really, it is not hard to defend the holes against weasels. The terrier x-radar costs minimal energy. Etc. This argument has been made already so I won't belabor it here.

The point is, I don't agree with Dank on this particular suggestion, but I do agree that something else should be tried.

I'd be willing to give up the thrust firing, or the triple shot, but not both.
I'd consider L2 bullets, like the lanc or spider single fire.
I think sneaking through cracks is important, as well as finite cloak + stealth.

If we clearly understand what the weasel haters hate and what the weasel lovers love, we could find a compromise. If every ship could green or buy x-radar, for example, then the cloaking advantage would be almost eliminated, and then it would just be a matter of setting the x-radar price and the energy cost to have it on. I think that's an extreme example and not the right idea, but you see my point? There's a continuum here. How about if the ships that can't have x-radar can buy a very small (1-tile) brick to patch holes with? Or a Thor's Hammer that has zero velocity, so those ships effectively could mine the holes.

There are many knobs we could twiddle to find something better for everyone.

[DankNuggets]

purepub > tw ?

i think an issue here is promoting purepub over trenchwars in general.

small weasel settings seemed to be OK in the minds of the large weasel proponents as long as they weren't mucking with base and going through the holes. Well, that's only really a problem in purepub. Basically you're sacrificing the entire public system for the purepubs.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you can't make one ship setting for normal pubs and another for purepubs. On that same limb, i'm guessing that for some reason, you don't think the addition of another ship with repels disrupts the idea of purepub either... or the 'necessity' of sharks with regards to the bot calculations of !team !ship...

IMO, as a compromise, you should have just restricted weasels from purepub, and left them alone for the rest of the pubs. I don't like levi restrictions, was vehemently against the jav restrictions, but I think I could live with a compromise that restricted weasels from purepub if they are reverted back to the small size, faster firing rate, and finite stealth+cloaking.

i'm grabbing at straws trying to work something out, please work with us.

[crazi]

I vote for small weasel and also unlimited afterburner so I can start destroying base with my cults of small weasel. Levi's would be shitting in their pants after my weasel gang rapes and kills their family in a desperate attempt to take over the block.

[Viruk]

A small weasel gets my vote.

I miss the satisfaction of a well aimed shot hitting and destroying a 1 tile ship.

I hate there being another ship with repels in the game: being bounced about the base a lot negates the skills of flying and aiming and causes more random deaths.

I agree with Andy H.K. about the small weasel having more of a role in basing than the current version.

If the 'original' (settings as posted by Andy H.K.) small weasel is considered overpowered (and it probably was) then tweak it down some other way.

As long as a ship has a useful role I don't see why it should be able to hold its own in all circumstances. Ensuring the weasel is sufficiently underpowered vs most other ships (providing they are aware of it) ought to keep it from wrecking a basing game.

I would suggest allowing them no multifire. Force the little sneaks to aim!

I would rather they be assassins rather than vulchers so leave them the firepower to kill a fully charged ship if they can get fairly close undamaged before their cloaking drains too much energy.

Any ship with 1-hit killing capability that can bypass the main flag room defences, is hard to hit and can use the smallest walls and niches to shield themselves from bullets will remain powerful even when visible. Make them very slow to recharge even with no drain. With a lower rate of fire and made more vulnerable to repeated L3 bullets as well as bombs, weasels will be slaughtered or driven off by most competent defenders without needing everyone to switch ships or risk teamkilling bombs even if they swarm in through holes.