Distension discussion

[DankNuggets]

if dist goes go 24/7 there are a few things that would be nice to see


the total amount of people that can play should go down. when you have over 30 people in one of the flagrooms, its impossible to play. can we turn it down to maybe a max of 24 or so?

you should be able to wait outside of the arena in queue and get a PM telling you to come back when its your turn

zoner at the end of each game/war(similar to ?go base). that way if im tooling about somewhere and havent played yet today, i know i can go right in and expect to play distension.

a very public scheduled reset

I think those are very doable.

Lowering the max # of ppl is probably not too big of an issue if it's 24/7. With much less demand, we might even see that we don't get teh max # of people except for at advertised rounds or something. It would go a long way to decrease the fr lag i'd bet too. Probably the only reason it hasn't been lowered to combat the fr lag is because of the large # of ppl who wanted to play, and the ineffective queue.

To add to that point, I think there shoudl be a part in the code to automatically enter sudden death mode if it's a one base game that becomes populated enough to be a two base game. That contributes to a huge amount of fr lag in the first game ususally.


Waiting outside of the arena in the queue would be good, and I think he's working on implementing this. Also, that queue should be a lot shorter if it's 24/7 as well.


Personally, I have no problem with zoners. However, a good many people simply detest them, so I'd say that it might be best to restrict zoners to something like a rp multiplier event, possibly the begging of a new war (after a team wins best of 5), or if it's slow and a mod feels like adverting it.

I think it might be better to keep most of them in the distension chat to not piss off the people who hate adverts (and distension). Before it used a messagebot or something to PM you when games started, but I think people complained about that as it can be annoying if you're dd'ing or something. But if it was something you had to sign up for, then it's up to you to decide if it's worth having it possibly interrupt a dd or w/e.

oh yeah, the reset. I think the best approach would be to have a lofty goal of a far away reset, with a cavet that if a certain % of the database reaches a set average rank (say like 50 or 60) then it would reset earlier. This wouldn't set into motion an automatic reset, but it would alert a mod that it is a good time to plan one, with like a month or more's notice.

I say this because I know a lot of people stopped playing in beta when their ships got reset before they had the chance to get the cool upgrades like lvl 3bombs, thors, or firebloom. I don't think everyone should get these, but it should be attainable to enough ppl, and not just the ultimate die hards.

Resets are a necessary evil that allows new players to come in on a level playing field. They also allow people who have "maxed" the game out to start over. BUT, they also stop people who were a day away from getting w/e cool upgrade they wanted. That's why it's important to put out a lot of advanced notice of when a reset is going to be, as well as not planning it too soon that people give up hope on reaching w/e achievement that you'd need a high rank for.

Good comments!

[Zeebu]

if dist goes go 24/7 there are a few things that would be nice to see


the total amount of people that can play should go down. when you have over 30 people in one of the flagrooms, its impossible to play. can we turn it down to maybe a max of 24 or so?

you should be able to wait outside of the arena in queue and get a PM telling you to come back when its your turn

zoner at the end of each game/war(similar to ?go base). that way if im tooling about somewhere and havent played yet today, i know i can go right in and expect to play distension.

a very public scheduled reset

[dako]

those were posts from the last few days, dugwyler also said tw is experiencing lag from distension. He said qan and himself were trying to figure out how to fix it.

Also make pms green in distension, the worst font/color sheme ive ever experienced in the zone

Havent read this thread in a long time, but this made my day. You are so uninformed about distension and its workings that you didn't even know that dugwyler = qan. And you're also a douchebag enough that you'll make up fake statements from him. I'm doubtful dugwyler said "me and qan are figuring out how to fix it". If this isn't evidence enough you contribute nothing but more tears to this discussion, then I don't know what is. Self owned.

On your second note, agreed, but this has been brought up 9000 times before and doesn't need someone else to reiterate it.

[Liquid Blue]

It's a topic about Distension, if I have an opinion I'm going to post it. You can ignore it if you like, but regardless it's still going to show up

I kept out of this topic until I saw a trend of roxxkat jumping from every distension topic and flaming people who even slightly had a disagreement or problem in regards to Distension. If you think I've been on the flaming warpath of Distension from the get0go, by all means check out my other posts in the other threads.

And no, you didn't do it very well, especially considering that's a quote from another topic to boot

[TagMor]

You dont play distension. Yet your first 3 posts of this thread consisted of criticisms of others including,

you don't know who or what you're talking about, you're just in a giggle about distension since it's the hottest thing going for you since pokemon or recess

and you ask me to "keep the flaming to a minimum if you want to stay in the spirit of the topic".. gtfo

start muttering about some "war" while you adjust your tinfoil hat and proclaim we're against all you distension players

It was in reference to Exalt's comments of

Well its like we are playing tugawar, if I let go then distension pubbers take over the zone, so I have to balance it out carefully, I have to strike hard and then hang around the mid for awhile while the enemy is still reeling from his obvious defeat.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?p=674618#post674618

and I was highlighting how such comments are antagonistic and unnecessary.. Either i didnt do it very well or you are just a simple person.

.. anyway, now that we have clarified the relativity of the word "war", do you mind responding to the rest of my post?

[Liquid Blue]

war? first you assume that Distension is unwanted by TW and wish for it to be removed from the server and part ways, and now you're talking about some kind of war between players?

what are you talking about? this is a discussion topic about distension, yes?

do you see me running around calling distension lame and saying it should be banned? Or going out of my way to flame the player base? 4 other people not including HTF or wark on this page alone are talking about the zone recycling and the problems with Distension, so how is anyone hijacking a thread?

First you adress me by calling me a cockbag and then start muttering about some "war" while you adjust your tinfoil hat and proclaim we're against all you distension players

please keep the flaming to a minimum if you want to stay in the spirit of the topic

[TagMor]

No Liquid Blue,
This thread has been hijacked by an assfuck who thinks the Distension issue is a "War" between the TW community, and is doing all he can to alienate a large proportion of us.
All you are doing is harping the same shit because of, what i can tell, is some general dislike for Distension and its poularity.
The one legitimate argument is the server recycles/lag, which is a new problem and one that may be fixable.
Distension has been put on hold until/if it is fixed.
HMS clearly said Distension would not be ran on TWL Sunday as soon as it was confirmed that the recycles were due to Dist.

So why are you and meathead still in here?

[Liquid Blue]

thanks TagMor I don't know what I would do without your support

Roxxkat was constantly rising to shitty baiting when he could have been using the time to try and continue with some productive posting

Throughout this thread, and the others, I see Wark/HTF coming under attack from a few distension fans who claim they're only against Distension because it's taking away from their TWL. I think that's stupid, seeing as how they have valid points and am trying to reiterate that whenever I see cockbags like Roxxkat posting " NU UH! YOUR AN IDIOT DISTENSION IS GREAT" posts.

There are times where I have to reiterate points because some distension fans simply want to point fingers at wark or HTF and call them meanies, and then there are times when I have to agree with one of the two because they're posting logical stuff

The crazy thing about your accusation Tag, is that in one of the other two threads HTF got the same shitty attack, except he was just echoing wark and my posts, and the rest of the people just attack wark because he's wark. Are we going to flip a coin and say wark is copying my posts/HTF as well next? When 3 people agree with each other they don't need to post the exact same thing every time.

So am I a cockbag because I agree with people you don't agree with, or because you're just mad about your event barely being hosted and proven to be unstable?

[TagMor]

ok first of all Liquid Blue, You Are A Cockface
Atleast wark/htf have semi-original arguments.. all you do is reiterate whatever they say and pass it off as a point of view.
Look at your first post (at page 7)..

or you could not constantly rise to childish bait and focus on producing positive posts

OK now lets look at your second post...

wait where did all that energy to make biased posts go

you need a red bull, don't quit just because shit gets rough

Now to your third post, which at this point Kthx has arrived and you feel confident enough to start formulating paragraphs.. however, despite their inflated volume they fail to hold any/more substance..

you don't know who or what you're talking about, you're just in a giggle about distension since it's the hottest thing going for you since pokemon or recess

you needle every post that has anything in it even slightly disagreeing with distension, while at the same time verbally jacking off distension every single chance you get and doing shit all in regards to other positive contributions to TW.

I don't even think you know what we're talking about anymore, you're just assuming we're being negative about your shitty rpg game

cry more plz

And from there onwards we become quite familiar with the complimentary After-Kthx post, and its vacuum of individual thought.

[Dwopple]

i think the main issue here is TWL, not distension. Distension is taking away from the competition of what this zone is about. Its not distension, its twd/twl. NO ONE can deny that when distension is on, twd usage declines. Distension isnt a 'hosted event', its a whole other zone, inside of a zone. zzzz

[Liquid Blue]

Also, they've said that they don't want it interfering with TW, not TWL. I don't know how clearer I could be: I have NEVER wanted it to conflict with TWL schedule.

I'm not saying you wanted it to conflict, I'm telling you why they are upset with Distension. Like I've said before, they don't want it to become the public 24/7- for a number of reasons, and the most recent example to use is TWL. Period. Stop thinking I'm forgetting you agree with them on TWL, I know this, the current situation is TWL so I'm going to use it as such.

o you are wrong in stating that they are just concerned with TWL sundays, they aren't. And btw, this thread isn't about distension gripes. Moderators are usually pretty good at keeping stickied threads on topic, i'm thinking they dropped the ball on this one.

I'm not wrong, especially when I've seen them post this over and over. You're wrong for thinking I'm implying the only reason they have a problem with Distension is TWL on sundays. In the long run, they would like to see Distension stop getting so much attention right now when that could be used to fix pub or focus on TWL. Right now, the issue is (/was, since the server crash) hosting Distension before TWL on sundays.

So it's nice and clear for you:

I already know you agree with them about Distension on sundays. That doesn't change the fact that it is the most recent reason they are against Distension. I don't care if you're tired of seeing that, it is what it is.

They said that it's unstable to the point it causes the zone to crash an appreciable # of times. It's not, and if by unstable you mean it's updated frequently, then maybe. You've had so little time to judge whether or not it's relatively stable. Obviously over the past week or so it has been a bit unstable, but not completely. Before that, it hardly ever caused a recycle (maybe a week back in june?).

They're grossly overstating the instability in the game, and I'm saying they're wrong. Like many others have pointed out, that instability is temporary, and will eventually be fixed. LIKE I'VE SAID: it shouldn't be hosted during TWL.

No, it is unstable, and it has caused the zone to crash. Even HMS has said this. It's not that I've had so little time to judge that it's stable, it's that it shouldn't be hosted until the bugs are worked out. I shouldn't have time to judge whether it's stable, it needs to be stable before it hits the public. Period. It causes problems and it needs to stay in beta until those are fixed.

What is the significance of that statement,

It's showing that the coders and the people you aren't replying to, are saying the same thing.

This is the end of that argument, seriously every fucking time you respond to me now, you keep bringing this up, and i keep saying we agree with each other, but you don't seem to see it that way. Instead you'd rather defend wark and HTF...

Thanks for deciding when the argument is over, I wouldn't have had any clue if you hadn't told me. I'm telling you the coders and wark/HTF are both saying the game is unstable and you're still trying to find beef with wark/htf simply because they don't like your game. Let me show you how it looks from this end

wark/htf- distension is unstable, it shouldn't be hosted since it causes problems with the zone

qan/others- ya it's a bit shaky, we're working on it

DK- It causes problems but it's not unstable all the time!!!

wark/htf- distension shouldn't be run before twl, because it's unstable

DK- I agree!!

DK- Distension should be hosted more!!

wark/htf- ..what

DK-U guys need to log 500 hours to understand how fun it is!!

wark/htf- i dont want to play the game, I'm not here to play an sapceship rpg. it also fucks up TW

DK- you idiots!!! it does not!!

qan/others- uh, yea it does. my bad.

DK- Well it's stable some of the time!!! host it plz!! wark/htf u guys are close-minded parrots!!!1

First off, there's nothing official in HMS's statement before about striking, even if it turns out to be true.

...

Maybe, though, it's stupid to ask them to host at seemingly random times that change frequently?

maybe it's stupid to host something that has a tendency to break the zone?

Good thing that it doesn't, despite the few examples of it crashing the zone recently. I wouldn't want to play distension if it was fucked up, so what's the point in saying that demands won't be met? Obviously they are referring to when it's not crashing the zone, which is most of the time.

Here's the problem, It shouldn't crash the zone, period. Or if it does, it needs to be one of those crazy 1/10000000000 times. It's crashed how many times this week already? The event isn't ready to be hosted on a consistent basis, period. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's fucking up too much. I don't care if it crashes the server once a week, that's still too much. Take it out until it's fixed and good to go.

[Trunks_rage]

My guess is that Distension will end up needing its own zone. Which of course will take a nice chunk of players away from TW, so I think it would be in the best interest of the TW staff to be more accommodating.

In my own experience with trying to run the Speedball/Strikeball league it initially failed when interest was at its peak because of the lack of staff support. I know when that happened there were some players that left for the hockey zone. The effect was minimal because at the time TW was flourishing and the speedball community was relatively small. Still it's an important lesson in how staff should embrace new popular events rather than feel threatened by them. With Distension you have an extremely popular event that is being handled terribly by all involved. Not only are the people advocating for and running distension doing a poor job, the resistance from other members of staff is making the inadequacies of those running distension even more glaring.

The schedule that is currently in place is not the one posted on the Distension site. Also that schedule has changed arbitrarily several times, and the one point where input was asked for by the players the results were ignored and none of the options offered were even implemented. In the past there has also been a problem with the schedule starting on time, though I give them credit for getting better at that.

The arguments against Distension are laughable at best. To say it is negatively affecting TWD would mean TWD is still important at this time. But TWD is irrelevant because we are currently in the midst of TWL. Also, if Distension were more widely available it wouldn't hinder other events because the people playing it would know they could play distension at another time. Squeezing the schedule into tiny two hour slots every other day makes that impossible. But also, so what if people would rather play Distension than TWD? Doesn't that mean Distension is more popular, and therefore more important? Why does TWD need so much protection? I've played this zone for 8 years, been in every league, ran squads, been on staff, made maps and helped develop events. I've also run other zones, I know a number of people that develop smaller zones, make bots, run the SSC, gfx, tilesets and the all the shit we take for granted. In my opinion, Distension is one of the most innovative and enjoyable events ever created in Subspace. I hope the people in charge can recognize that and get their act together.

[DankNuggets]

Also make pms green in distension, the worst font/color sheme ive ever experienced in the zone

fyi, dug and qan are same person, not that it really matters as far as discussion. recycles should be taken care of in a better manner, you're right. The dev zone can't handle the # of ppl that TW can, so you can't run full scale tests there (or so i was told).

1 or 2 times, i'd ask you to be patient with it. but 6 times in a week or two is legitimate cause for concern. only thing i can tell you is that i have great faith in dug/qan to figure out the problem and fix it. I just can't tell you how quickly this might happen. I'm not sure the length of time it's hosted affects the recycles, but it could be something to look at. That being said, there shoudn't be a difference in hosting it 30 mins vs. hosting it 3 hrs IMO, but if there is it should be investigated.

I'd love it if there was a way to make the pms's different from in game pms, but i don't think it's possible. It would go a long way into helping people realize what's going on, because you're generally too busy to read the chat. Even when you do read it, it's hard to distinguish between DBot and outside text. He's made an attempt to remedy this by making them show up as outside arena pms (DBot)>blah blah, but it doesn't have nearly the effect as it would being a different color. If it could be done, I think he would have done it already.

[HateTheFake]

those were posts from the last few days, dugwyler also said tw is experiencing lag from distension. He said qan and himself were trying to figure out how to fix it. But apperently with all the latest recycles and bots going offline for 2 hours, it hasnt been fixed. And as i said before why are we hosting a laggy bot still. Shouldnt it remain in beta phase until its bugs are fixed? Am i really being unreasonable because it effects me 6/7 times it recycled. (apparently i missed the 2nd one last night) Look Im just trying to have fun in tw. Make the bot/distension stable, then play it all you want, until then dont host it 10 hours a day.

Also make pms green in distension, the worst font/color sheme ive ever experienced in the zone

[DankNuggets]

Well, good job quoting posts from weeks ago, because as I said several times, qan had made several(attempted) fixes since those two posts and I think most were under the assumption that it wasn't an issue anymore, as since the latest attempt, it hadn't crashed at all until last night.

And where did either of them say it was causing 'lag'? Please quote some of their posts where they said this.

Thanks for stating this. I'm sure they've realized that it was a week old, and that it obviously doesn't cause a problem everytime it's loaded.

Don't hold your breath if you think they're going to address any of your post in a reply.




LB- you get one freebie, after that, you win. You can have the last word (in this thread, i'll still follow up in the others). Just have some respect for the people who actually want to improve distension, as this is their thread to do so.

Wait

so let me get this straight

The people you aren't replying to anymore, are the ones that were saying Distension is unstable and causing problems, and that's why they didn't want it interfering with TWL

No, the people I'm not replying to anymore (IN THIS THREAD) are the ones that are not talking about improvements to distenson. There are 3 threads open already to just argue with me in. They don't need to do it here.

Also, they've said that they don't want it interfering with TW, not TWL. I don't know how clearer I could be: I have NEVER wanted it to conflict with TWL schedule.

So you are wrong in stating that they are just concerned with TWL sundays, they aren't. And btw, this thread isn't about distension gripes. Moderators are usually pretty good at keeping stickied threads on topic, i'm thinking they dropped the ball on this one.

you said they were wrong

yeah, they are. They said that it's unstable to the point it causes the zone to crash an appreciable # of times. It's not, and if by unstable you mean it's updated frequently, then maybe. You've had so little time to judge whether or not it's relatively stable. Obviously over the past week or so it has been a bit unstable, but not completely. Before that, it hardly ever caused a recycle (maybe a week back in june?).

They're grossly overstating the instability in the game, and I'm saying they're wrong. Like many others have pointed out, that instability is temporary, and will eventually be fixed. LIKE I'VE SAID: it shouldn't be hosted during TWL.

Distension turns out to cause problems because it's unstable, staff decides not to host it because it would interfere with TWL

What is the significance of that statement, when it echos everything that I've said in addition to what everyone else on this forum has said.

Again, unstable at the moment, not unstable all off the time. Don't argue semantics with me on this one, as I know the definition of stable means all the time, but since it's updated frequently, the "all the time" starts over with each update. The idea was to have as little updates as possible after public release, so that it was as stable as possible. The scheduling conflicts and nonstop bitching have prompted a lot of recent updates, and they're taking a little while to smooth over. I've never, never, never, suggested running an unstable bot DURING TWL.

This is the end of that argument, seriously every fucking time you respond to me now, you keep bringing this up, and i keep saying we agree with each other, but you don't seem to see it that way. Instead you'd rather defend wark and HTF...

and we're the people with loud parroting mouths?

No, that was directed at HTF. But if you want me to call you a parrot, keep repeating the "distension shouldn't be on sundays" argument, I think you've said it quite a few times already, and i've agreed with you every time. Learn a new trick already, that is unless you're doing this specifically to piss me off.

It's dumb for the OP's to go on strike if EVERYONE who plays is already complaining about distension not being hosted enough. Instead of hosting and trying to work with other staff on a better schedule, they just decide to not host at all, which only shafts the other distension players even more

First off, there's nothing official in HMS's statement before about striking, even if it turns out to be true. Let's not jump the gun. Maybe, though, it's stupid to ask them to host at seemingly random times that change frequently? They do have lives too I realize, and forcing it to be hosted spread out like that has got to be a pain.

And when you strike, you are shafting yourself in the hopes that you will eventually get what you want. The difference is that by striking they're not hurting the people who depend on them. I see where you are going with that, as it probably won't work.

Demands (more Distension schedules) aren't going to be met when the event is repeatedly shown to be unstable and cause server recycles

well, you have to define repeatedly. Yes, when it is buggy, it crashes. But for the most part, it is bug free between updates. I agree it shouldn't be ran if it crashes the zone all the time. Good thing that it doesn't, despite the few examples of it crashing the zone recently. I wouldn't want to play distension if it was fucked up, so what's the point in saying that demands won't be met? Obviously they are referring to when it's not crashing the zone, which is most of the time.

If it is shown to crash everytime, they stop hosting it until it's fixed. This has happened before, where we just waited until it was updated. We're not trying to be unreasonable and ask to have a bot that causes daily recylces, please understand this. It's not unreasonable to have 24/7 play with a stable bot. Obviously, I'm willing to wait until the bot is stable.

so the whole point of the strike before the big crashes yesterday were a moot point

I wasn't around for that, I have no comment.

but hey I'm just a parrot right, even when i try to keep things civil with you

sqwak sqwak

no, if anything you're a bit vain for assuming I'm refering to you when I mentioned HTF and wark in the same sentence. believe me, I wouldn't call you a parrot yet unless you want to keep bringing up the moot point about sundays.

It's obvious I was refering to the guy who just writes THIS after quoting someone. Sorry if I've ruffled your feathers! (pun intended)

i'm trying my best to keep it civil, but it's hard when it seems like everytime I reply to you, stating that I agree with you (and always have) about it being hosted or not hosted during TWL, you act like we're butting heads.

It doesn't help that when you have two sides to an issue, I've got Cheese on mine, and you've got wark/HTF on yours. That right there leads to a lot of BS.

So I'll be happy to continue civily discussing distension with you, but not in this thread. If you want to reply to this with "BUT DISTENSION SHOULDN'T BE ON SUNDAYS", go ahead, and i'll cease to do so. If you start playing and want to discuss the gameplay, come back here and i'll be happy to do so.