Distension discussion

[Viruk]

Other thing: I'll begin reworking armies over the next few weeks so that permanent assignments go by the wayside.

So no chance of developing teamwork or loyalty to a flag?

I may also just have to reduce end round bonuses, while also reducing somewhat the to-rank amounts for some of the support ships.

Where did that come from? It is goal bonuses that are still too high at the moment (getting ~140RP or ~7 same-level kills) not end of round bonuses! Do you think we are basing too much instead of spawning and camping?

Armies will exist on a daily basis, shuffled at each daily time reset; an auto-assist system will come in that will work by permanently reassigning players for that day rather than just sending them to assist; and armies will be randomized if one is dominating the other. Just a taste of what's to come, as clearly the conscience of Distension players cannot be relied upon...

We haven't even got the current assist system working properly yet and we are still going to need it since teams will vary in balance at different times of day and when powerful players get specced. I suggest the following:

• Make the consequences of avarice clear (You won X RP but could have won X RP)
• Make the chance of avarice more dependent on average imbalance throughout the game than just right at the end and display that chance in the imbalance messages.
• Make it so assisters don't get switched back to their old teams just in time to miss out on the victory they worked for when assisting.
• Make the assist rewards publically known (What % of the playerbase knows the Saint bonus exists let alone what it is worth?)
• Make it so you can clearly see whether there is still an imbalance when you see the message showing one of your teammates has assisted.
• Make it easy to assist. (Make !assist switch you to the ailing frequency. You can get killed while looking up whether you are on team 0 or 1 and typing !assist x)
• Max assist rank as shown in the imbalance message seems wrong. When trying to assist (I think in a single flag game) after various max assist levels 30-40 were quoted in the messages it wouldn't let me with my level 26ish spider citing imbalance.
• If the assist system is improved it is vital to tell the players or many will continue to ignore the assist system out of habit.

A possible suggestion for a new army system with 3 types of player:

• Ally (independent and flexible)
• Loyalist (stable and tied to the fortunes of the flag)
• Mercenary (squad-based)

Everyone starts as Ally.

Allies are shuffled at the start of every War to either Misanthropy or Planetary.
Allies can defect but at a low cost that reflects that allies are going to be shuffled regularly.
Killing any allied player who defects from your side should give 20% bonus until the next shuffle.
Allies should get a small extra assist bonus but suffer extra Avarice penalty.

Once a player reaches Officer rank and has gained a level 20 ship they could remain as an Ally but have two other options. This is to ensure maximum flexibility in the critical period right after any reset and that new players have enough experience to understand their choices:

Players can become a loyalist of their current army for at low joining cost.
When the bot reshuffles teams it will first attempt to keep loyalists on the appropriate army. If the armies are severely imbalanced by powerful loyalists there could be a forced assist for the duration of the war.
Loyalists cannot directly defect to become a loyalist for the other army.
Loyalists can defect to a squad or to become an ally again at the current cost.
Killing any loyalist who defects from your side should give 20% bonus for the next 24 hours.
When fighting for their flag; loyalists would be awarded a small extra bonus on victory but would get similar penalty to their consolation bonus for defeats.

They can defect at low cost to join a mercenary player-run Distension-registered squad.
When the bot reshuffles teams at the beginning of every war it will first attempt to keep loyalists on the appropriate army. It will then attempt to shuffle these squads as blocks to balance the teams. Squad shuffling need not be random. It would make sense to try and achieve a new combination of squads and armies for each war. If this cannot be achieved (due to powerful loyalists or squads) squads could be split for the duration of the war.
Mercenaries can defect to become an ally or loyalist or to another squad at low cost. The defecting RP is paid into the squad fund.
There is no bonus for killing any mercenary who leaves their squad.
Mercenaries can be kicked out by their squad at a low cost paid from the squad fund.
Squads would have a small extra RP bonus dependent on the proportional power of their players paid into their squad fund on every victory where the squad isn't split.
A squad owner could choose to headhunt any player who is permitted to defect by contributing RP from their squad fund to offset the defection cost and provide a limited bonus.
A squad owner could choose to award a limited bonus shared between its members from its fund.

No player would be allowed to change allegiance more than once in any 24 hour period.
No squad would be allowed to headhunt more than once in any 24 hour period.
The assist system would still be needed to even things up during the course of a war.
It would be useful to display flags of permanent allegiance (if any) as well as current army (with direction of goal) to minimize player confusion.

This system could allow for private frequency battles on alternate Distension maps (maybe even in single flag games).
It ought to have a better chance of promoting good teamwork than a randomly shuffled army.
It would be a solid base for squad based competition within Distension.
Squads that recruit too many players or all the powerful players should find themselves split too often to achieve much. It would pay squads to develop player talent and recruit wisely.
Distension squads could go on to do other things outside Distension within TW.

[RiiStar]

Dugwyler, are you alinea or qan in game?, your updates are clutch!

He is the one and only Qan...
Alinea is a lovely young mother to a new born baby (hence why she was absent from TW for a period before/after having baby Kaitlyn) !!!

Both are awsome coders

[roxxkatt]

list moved to page 13

[404 Not Found]

Plus, as a hint to those having trouble at the lower ranks, try turreting for a few ranks. You'll save your terr the energy of shooting to defend itself, and assuming you aren't attached to an idiotic, suiciding terr, you won't die. Just know enough not to be lame and camp if you're able to attack. To many people camp in this game already. Turret for a bit, get those first few ranks under your belt, and you're hooked. That first speed upgrade, that first bullet upgrade... and you'll know why you're here in distension and not pub.

Sounds interesting, as well as you and many other have an invested interest. I am well aware of turreting and played in Chaos league years ago when they outnumbered TW...we are talking yrs and yrs ago when everyon would turret.

I personally hated turreting and grew tired of Chaos League...

You make a good salesman DK...I just am jaded and as noted prior, will check it out if I ever re-load continuum on my computer. For now I am just a forum user.

[DankNuggets]

A couple things I would like to see:
-New goals
-Have the bot automatically switch to 2 base distension when enough players enter

goals could use some work, but i think it'll be a while and several iterations if you're looking for the "perfect" goals. The base is easily crammed with ppl, and the ball gets stuck fairly often inside the goal where only an x can get it. Not sure how to fix these things though, so GL.

The second part really needs to go in though. 40 ppl in top flagroom is too much, and the game always heads towards stalemate with the longer flag hold requirement.


404-

The insentive is the same in almost all TW games: it feels good to watch a ship go BOOM! A first-time player can kill almost all other people in the arena ATM, with the exception of high ranking terriers mainly, which should be immune from the weakest of ships killing them.

Plus, as a hint to those having trouble at the lower ranks, try turreting for a few ranks. You'll save your terr the energy of shooting to defend itself, and assuming you aren't attached to an idiotic, suiciding terr, you won't die. Just know enough not to be lame and camp if you're able to attack. To many people camp in this game already. Turret for a bit, get those first few ranks under your belt, and you're hooked. That first speed upgrade, that first bullet upgrade... and you'll know why you're here in distension and not pub.

The upgrades aren't so drastic that you're a sitting duck. Far from it, I'm killed quite often by lower level ships. One, you're in a shitstorm of a FR battle, and no one's got full energy-- big ships go down easy like this. If you're turreting in the fr, you've got a better chance than the higher ranks attacking you.

Oh, and yes, wb does get THORS. It's one of the last upgrades though, coming at a rank I'll probably never achieve (50?). Good news though, it has like a 5min cool down i think, so you can die, thor, die, thor, die, thor...

[Vehicle]

If it is fun, increases the population and is free of bot breakdowns, then push it to the max...

Oh the irony. Hi 404, NS for life.

The queue is in place so that the arena, those who are actually playing, doesn’t get too crowded. You noted how it’s pretty much a shit show during flagroom battles and if you eliminate all player restrictions it’s only going to get worse.

Dugwyler, are you alinea or qan in game?, your updates are clutch! I think you’re exactly right that it isn’t fair to let players in based purely on their place on line. I also think that changing the armies on a daily basis is a great idea because I really don’t think people care about their team and the auto-assist utility will make for more even games, good looks. And it’s worth noting that a lot of players, myself included, have been put into the game and then immediately re-docked more than once so if you make that fix the queue problem will lessen as well.

A couple things I would like to see:
-New goals
-Have the bot automatically switch to 2 base distension when enough players enter

[404 Not Found]

I think you answered more than just my questions. You only saw the ball game that goes on between basing games. You say you watched for awhile, but the ball game (yes it is like strikeball) is only on for like 5 mins in between the 5-30 minute rounds.

A third solution to the 'queue problems' would be to have another arena for people to spill over into, just like we do for pubs and twd.

One thing you can't observer though is the satisfaction you get from actually earning something for each kill. After you kill enough people, you can custumize your ship! That's what keeps people coming back, the satisfaction from earning RP that's actually useful. Think of it as being able to buy permanent, useful stuff from the safeties in pub.


To address the people sitting around doing nothing: The ball game is just meant to be a diversion between the actual basing game. In fact, it was just a normal goal until the small base was added to appeal to more ship types. You earn the equivalent of 4-5 kills (more or less) for each goal, so there's a bigger incentive to score and defend against them. That's why they're in the base. The reason they're not doing anything is because it's technically the break between rounds, where you can go get a drink or upgrade your ship. You can't spec to do this because it will remove you from teh game and put you in that dreaded queue.

So from the viewpoint of someone coming in cold to play, as I would be. When you enter and are up against players that have aquired mods to the ship, like in guns & bombs...what is the insentive other than getting killed easily and taking the time to try and catch up to those with the superior bombs and bullets?

I assume this would be reset and not something that you would keep as far as ship modification for more than perhaps a weeks time at most?

As an old TWB purest, I am not for the mod's so to say in most apsects of TW. But in reading what you have noted I will give it another look sometime when I re-load continuum. Are there Thor's? and if not in noting all the other mod's in weapons, it sounds like it should be added, especially since what I caught was not the actaul game, but as you noted the in-between game.

No matter what happens...as an old TWB purest, I will most likely avoid it all together....one reason why I deleted the game entirely. I just use the forums these days. Plus I am an old man in the ranks of players still involved...let the game evolve. I am all for that as well as others enjoying it as I did years ago.

[dako]

OK, so someone said there was supposed to be a shuffle daily now, at 2PM. Yay.

Unfortunately, this didn't happen. Un-yay.

The teams are 14v19 at 2:15 PM EST (now), no one is assissting, and we're still losing every single game within 10 minutes. I'm losing faith in whoever is hosting this arena anymore, that they would sit on their team with +5 people, not assist and horde the RP as the people on the team with -5 people struggle to get their team of 1 terr 1 shark 1 lanc 11 wbs to do something productive.

[DankNuggets]

DK, I did sit in spec and watch. I watched for awhile too, just taking in the aspects of the game itself. I noted that in the base, too many ships would just sit there doing nothing but waiting for a flag (looks like a ball from PB or old Strikeball to me) be shot onto the base and then shot into what looks like a goal. That in itself looks like a ball game and not a flag game to me.

I have seen Strikeball fail, as well as many other hosted events. It seems that the timed base game in pub died as well. Having a timed event in itself is somewhat of a flawed game considering the bot problems that have plagued TW for too many years...no offense to the bot developers.

The one common thing I am seeing in the forum as well as in spec on the game was the amount of complaints regarding the "queue". It really makes for a crap game if it is in public play and its not working. Suggestion? Remove the arena if "queue" is to remain a problem or remove and allow for a free for all entry. If so many people want to play, why restrict it? If you want to restrict it, then fix the "queue" problem before making it public access.

If it was to be a full time arena, just make sure it works and everyone that wants in can enter the game without waiting 3 hours only to complain that the "queue" is f'ed up.

DK, I guess my doubtfulness is summed up to years of seeing decent games that would have helped this server in population increases fail. I would love to see it work, but all in all it is not TW and not a replacement for what "Base" is. It is a glorified PB/EG looking/SB arena that deserves a spot most likely on the arena list, but as other games that have deserved this, they fade and the bots fail and then they vanish from the arena listings.

The real EG aspect I see is based upon the spawing and the additional weapons as you clearly noted. Why change the weapons at all? With all the hanging out at the base were I noted the many ships just hanging out there, one weapon that would be a great addition...and maybe it is there and I missed it, is to add multiple "Thor's" to break up that loitering in base.

I am a purest when it comes to TW and Base...am old school in this game and is most likely why I removed continuum once again from my O.S. I just had to see what this game was about and that is why I re-loaded it to my computer.

If it is fun, increases the population and is free of bot breakdowns, then push it to the max...I am all for the population of the game increasing. Was not meant to be a forum post to say this game should be removed...was just stating an unbiased opinion from an outside view in a sense.

I think I answered your questions...and no offense taken by your post!

I think you answered more than just my questions. You only saw the ball game that goes on between basing games. You say you watched for awhile, but the ball game (yes it is like strikeball) is only on for like 5 mins in between the 5-30 minute rounds.

A third solution to the 'queue problems' would be to have another arena for people to spill over into, just like we do for pubs and twd.

One thing you can't observer though is the satisfaction you get from actually earning something for each kill. After you kill enough people, you can custumize your ship! That's what keeps people coming back, the satisfaction from earning RP that's actually useful. Think of it as being able to buy permanent, useful stuff from the safeties in pub.


To address the people sitting around doing nothing: The ball game is just meant to be a diversion between the actual basing game. In fact, it was just a normal goal until the small base was added to appeal to more ship types. You earn the equivalent of 4-5 kills (more or less) for each goal, so there's a bigger incentive to score and defend against them. That's why they're in the base. The reason they're not doing anything is because it's technically the break between rounds, where you can go get a drink or upgrade your ship. You can't spec to do this because it will remove you from teh game and put you in that dreaded queue.

[404 Not Found]

This is not a flame, I'm curious.

The only thing I can say about watching rather than playing, is that yes, it might look like EG. However, if you were to play it (hard to do with queue) you would have realized that most of the TW settings were there, just tweaked a bit.

• For example, although wbs start with lvl 2 bullets, there still mainly a one-hit-kill ship. They maneuver about the same.
• Javs still shoot a bomb that bounces once, and bullets from the rear. Still has a rocket available to it.
• Spiders still shoot a spray of lvl 1 bullets. They can shoot many more, but it doesn't' necessarily take a lot of them to kill anyone. An average ranked enemy will probably die from 3-4 shots in a row, just like in normal TW.
• Levis have changed a lot, that's one aspect that may not fit in the TW mold.
• Terrs are essentially the same, just with increased bullet speed, and a much higher top energy at high levels. Still uses portals, still uses bursts, still the only ship you can attach to.
• Weasels still the main cloaking ship. They're small, and shoot lvl 2's (one-hit ko's for the most part).
• Lancs are the same, except that they can now shoot a bomb at high levels (so can wb). Gets a burst at very high levels too.
• Sharks are the same except they now have a little bullet. Only ship that can repel, and still the main mine laying ship (wb can when it gets bombs, levis still can mine)
• The main style of game play is a TW themed base with a flag you have to keep for a set time, just like the bread and butter of TW.
• You don't have to 'green' up your ship to make it better like some zones, you start off with all your upgrades when you 'rearm' after spawning.

Really there are many more similarities to trenchwars than any other zone. No, it's not completely the same, which is why it's being called an event, but it's still closer to TW than anything else.

I'm wondering what made you decide on "it should be an EG event IMHO and not TW. If TW, it should be a hosted event and not a full time arena."

It's kind of hard to figure out how something should be hosted, and where it should belong if you haven't played it. I'm ecstatic that someone re-downloaded and intalled continuum because of distension, I just hope that you give it a fair shot, and maybe even try playing it (if you can get in the queue) before you decide it should be a hosted event only - especially when it doesn't need a host.

DK, I did sit in spec and watch. I watched for awhile too, just taking in the aspects of the game itself. I noted that in the base, too many ships would just sit there doing nothing but waiting for a flag (looks like a ball from PB or old Strikeball to me) be shot onto the base and then shot into what looks like a goal. That in itself looks like a ball game and not a flag game to me.

I have seen Strikeball fail, as well as many other hosted events. It seems that the timed base game in pub died as well. Having a timed event in itself is somewhat of a flawed game considering the bot problems that have plagued TW for too many years...no offense to the bot developers.

The one common thing I am seeing in the forum as well as in spec on the game was the amount of complaints regarding the "queue". It really makes for a crap game if it is in public play and its not working. Suggestion? Remove the arena if "queue" is to remain a problem or remove and allow for a free for all entry. If so many people want to play, why restrict it? If you want to restrict it, then fix the "queue" problem before making it public access.

If it was to be a full time arena, just make sure it works and everyone that wants in can enter the game without waiting 3 hours only to complain that the "queue" is f'ed up.

DK, I guess my doubtfulness is summed up to years of seeing decent games that would have helped this server in population increases fail. I would love to see it work, but all in all it is not TW and not a replacement for what "Base" is. It is a glorified PB/EG looking/SB arena that deserves a spot most likely on the arena list, but as other games that have deserved this, they fade and the bots fail and then they vanish from the arena listings.

The real EG aspect I see is based upon the spawing and the additional weapons as you clearly noted. Why change the weapons at all? With all the hanging out at the base were I noted the many ships just hanging out there, one weapon that would be a great addition...and maybe it is there and I missed it, is to add multiple "Thor's" to break up that loitering in base.

I am a purest when it comes to TW and Base...am old school in this game and is most likely why I removed continuum once again from my O.S. I just had to see what this game was about and that is why I re-loaded it to my computer.

If it is fun, increases the population and is free of bot breakdowns, then push it to the max...I am all for the population of the game increasing. Was not meant to be a forum post to say this game should be removed...was just stating an unbiased opinion from an outside view in a sense.

I think I answered your questions...and no offense taken by your post!

[DankNuggets]

I downloaded and installed Continuum again just to see what the talk was about this game. Sat in spec and watched for awhile and personally I just didn't get it as to all the excitement. Seems like it should be an EG event IMHO and not TW. If TW, it should be a hosted event and not a full time arena. But hey....whatever brings the population up is a plus. I was shocked to see how Continuum's arenas & population overall have diminshed.

GL with it.

This is not a flame, I'm curious.

The only thing I can say about watching rather than playing, is that yes, it might look like EG. However, if you were to play it (hard to do with queue) you would have realized that most of the TW settings were there, just tweaked a bit.

• For example, although wbs start with lvl 2 bullets, there still mainly a one-hit-kill ship. They maneuver about the same.
• Javs still shoot a bomb that bounces once, and bullets from the rear. Still has a rocket available to it.
• Spiders still shoot a spray of lvl 1 bullets. They can shoot many more, but it doesn't' necessarily take a lot of them to kill anyone. An average ranked enemy will probably die from 3-4 shots in a row, just like in normal TW.
• Levis have changed a lot, that's one aspect that may not fit in the TW mold.
• Terrs are essentially the same, just with increased bullet speed, and a much higher top energy at high levels. Still uses portals, still uses bursts, still the only ship you can attach to.
• Weasels still the main cloaking ship. They're small, and shoot lvl 2's (one-hit ko's for the most part).
• Lancs are the same, except that they can now shoot a bomb at high levels (so can wb). Gets a burst at very high levels too.
• Sharks are the same except they now have a little bullet. Only ship that can repel, and still the main mine laying ship (wb can when it gets bombs, levis still can mine)
• The main style of game play is a TW themed base with a flag you have to keep for a set time, just like the bread and butter of TW.
• You don't have to 'green' up your ship to make it better like some zones, you start off with all your upgrades when you 'rearm' after spawning.

Really there are many more similarities to trenchwars than any other zone. No, it's not completely the same, which is why it's being called an event, but it's still closer to TW than anything else.

I'm wondering what made you decide on "it should be an EG event IMHO and not TW. If TW, it should be a hosted event and not a full time arena."

It's kind of hard to figure out how something should be hosted, and where it should belong if you haven't played it. I'm ecstatic that someone re-downloaded and intalled continuum because of distension, I just hope that you give it a fair shot, and maybe even try playing it (if you can get in the queue) before you decide it should be a hosted event only - especially when it doesn't need a host.

[404 Not Found]

I downloaded and installed Continuum again just to see what the talk was about this game. Sat in spec and watched for awhile and personally I just didn't get it as to all the excitement. Seems like it should be an EG event IMHO and not TW. If TW, it should be a hosted event and not a full time arena. But hey....whatever brings the population up is a plus. I was shocked to see how Continuum's arenas & population overall have diminshed.

GL with it.

[Vergilius]

Oh, it's certainly not correct...

... technically incorrect grammatical ....

kiss my ass, meddi and cheese :P
Yea i know his/her sounds weird, i was just wondering.

[gdugwyler]

is 100% correct

Oh, it's certainly not correct... though it may be considered that way in about 20-30 years. I consciously used their because saying "his or her" is just too damned awkward. Interestingly enough, sometimes using technically incorrect grammatical structures is the most eloquent way to get the point across. I do use his/her rather than their in actual writing -- except, of course, if a character's speaking colloquially, as we all do in person -- but in something like a casual video game, their is sufficient and comfortable...



For those waiting to hear about the queue, I'm trying to find a way to make it work. Unfortunately, as our playerbase grows, we have more people waiting in spec wanting to play, and it's not the people who haven't played at all on a particular that will be doing the most waiting. I don't want to make it completely time-based, but then again, is it really fair any other way? If you've played 2 hours earlier that day, and there are 15 other people waiting to play who haven't been able to play at all, why should you be able to play instead of them, regardless of how long you wait? In the end, the solution to this problem is going to come with some added restrictions, and increased uptime. If Distension is offered more freely, like elim, it will begin to fade. And I hate to say it, but if players know they get X time in a day, they'll be less likely to obsess over catching it every single time it runs up. Really, if you're playing more than 2 hours a day, you need to find something else to do anyhow... you'll eventually ruin the fun for yourself -- just like the grinding WoWHeads.

However, it's definitely a bug if it's still putting you in and then removing you immediately. It's meant so that if you ever get put in, you're guaranteed at least 1 round of play. I'll have to doublecheck that. But regardless, we're never going back to a FIFO queue -- it's more important to be fair to those who haven't yet played today than those who've gotten in 2-3 hours already... go play league or pub, or go read a book. My sympathy is rather limited for those in that situation, and the code will reflect that disposition.

Other thing: I'll begin reworking armies over the next few weeks so that permanent assignments go by the wayside. I may also just have to reduce end round bonuses, while also reducing somewhat the to-rank amounts for some of the support ships. Armies will exist on a daily basis, shuffled at each daily time reset; an auto-assist system will come in that will work by permanently reassigning players for that day rather than just sending them to assist; and armies will be randomized if one is dominating the other. Just a taste of what's to come, as clearly the conscience of Distension players cannot be relied upon...

[meddi]

At least there are still SOME people that know traditional grammar.