Changes in pub #2

[jim the chin]

I just don't see antiwarp being abused that way that often, obviously YMMV.*eta:it sometimes has that as a side effect because LTs are always going roof, so you need antiwarp near the fr. Unfortunately.

Anyways, I agree with above that retaining new players is key and that no-energy drain hidden weasel and uber bombs on the lev discourage it. You got to face the fact that making sure you please the "lamers" part of the community so they don't leave simply isn't the way to go.

Indeed, the lamers require people to lame. They're parasitic, not productive. If basers leave, so do the lamers.

[jim the chin]

You dont find buying shrap to be a bit ez? Gone are the days of annoying solo roof/base javs I suppose, but the prospect of not having to green shraps for 5 mins first is nice.

Buying antiwarp is already being abused by people to sit on roof and disrupt basing. Do you really need me to log in and hold it over spawn for a few hours? Seems fun.

Rockets already killed the single pixel weasel. Well the ability to buy them and spam them led to a stupid decision to change the ship settings for some reason I may never fully understand.

Xradar wouldnt be an issue without the undetectable x, so reference ^

Bricks just dont have a place in this game. Levis had them for a little while but it wasnt a very potent item.

The specials are so lazy and roofturret is a perfect example of a selfish change to this game. People used to play roof all the time and it pissed off some baser mod that kept getting picked off, so he added some feature where he could just hit a macro and deal with it.

On a side note though, some of those specials would be great if the system was reset regularly and you didnt have people spam !buying cause they have infinite money.

Shrap could be made more expensive, but it gives the jav/shark a nice little boost without ruining the game.

With LTs about, antiwarp is unfortunately needed. The cynic in me says that staff only want to get rid of pubbux because they don't want their precious LTs killed by anti. Maybe the radius on anti-warp could be lowered?

Rockets didn't kill the 1-tile weasel. They contributed to it being slightly overpowered, but staff could just as easily have removed the rep. I agree that it didn't need a complete refit. Anyway, my point stands that there are lots of ways to use rockets (jav players know), and this provides new strategies that can only add to the gameplay. I would like to see them available for most ships (except maybe shark/lev).

X-radar would still be useful to buy, even if staff did the right thing and removed stealth from the weasel. While I can aim pretty well using radar, it can be worth buying x in the final minute of a flag game to stop weasels. This might actually help to counter 1-tile x's if they were brought back.

That was my point about bricks. They're not potent currently because they disappear in seconds, but they could be useful if they lasted slightly longer. Being able to close off an entrance into FR for 20 seconds is a good use of pubbux, and adds yet another strategy to the game.

Perhaps the roofturret is a lazy option, but again, overpowered LTs make it a necessity. I agree that we lost roofers because of this obsession for pleasing LTs, and employing half-assed counter measures like roofturret.

On a side note, the overpowered levs also stopped me from buying items. Why bother when a lev bomb might hit a wall somewhere nearby? Why even bother playing pub when there are unavoidable deaths like that? It negates the need to develop skill.

I agree it would be a good idea to reset pubbux every two weeks.

[Izor]

I've played pub for a long time, and before the double rocket/rep buying 1 pixel weasel it was never a problem. In fact it was one of the more well received changes pub has ever seen along with the lanc change because it added another dimension to the game from a previously useless/lame ship that we see today. No one ever cried about it until after the store. The evidence is in these forums. That one pixel weasel was fun to play against when I was in skilltube, cause it made me check my radar for newbies flying along walls. It made basers check their radars also. I just dont get where the 'OP' comes from. The entire skill of it relies on the player to be sneaky and outthink the enemy. Now they just gotta get a matchup against a wb that cant see them or lev in spawn.

Also I dont understand your rant about 'all these changes catering to staff and their LTs' because almost every change for a long time has been to neuter them. Unless you have any other recollection different than mine, this is the first time I can remember them being buffed by a change to pub.

[Bukkake Surprise]

The radius of antiwarp is just fine.

And about donations...I don't trust the staff at all. I asked in the "tmac is dead so give us money" thread what evidence there is that he's really dead and that the money will go to his family instead of to the mods, and my post was deleted and the thread closed. Clearly, I was on to something.

[Spock!]

Izor is correct on the small weasel, and the current one is pretty much useless except to lame people. I used to fly the weasel basically 24/7 since, as Izor said, it was about being sneaky and shit. But the current one is 100% lame and lack no skill to fly it, especially since x-radar was taken away from almost all the ships (hell, you can't even buy x-radar anymore) Its just not sporting nor is it fun to fly a ship most others don't even have the slightest chance to defend themselves against it.

Removal of the !buy system, or atleast the ability to buy stuff like rockets, repels, ports etc. would solve most of the issues in pub. No more LT's buying ports and reps like mad, no more double rocket and repel weasels taking the flag with ease. (if we get the tiny one back) No more Burst spam from terrs, no more annoying as hell antiwarp. All the previous listed problems are all generally the main issues in pub, and just this one change will solve most of them.....Gosh.

[Shaddowknight]

Izor is correct on the small weasel, and the current one is pretty much useless except to lame people. I used to fly the weasel basically 24/7 since, as Izor said, it was about being sneaky and shit. But the current one is 100% lame and lack no skill to fly it, especially since x-radar was taken away from almost all the ships (hell, you can't even buy x-radar anymore) Its just not sporting nor is it fun to fly a ship most others don't even have the slightest chance to defend themselves against it.

Removal of the !buy system, or atleast the ability to buy stuff like rockets, repels, ports etc. would solve most of the issues in pub. No more LT's buying ports and reps like mad, no more double rocket and repel weasels taking the flag with ease. (if we get the tiny one back) No more Burst spam from terrs, no more annoying as hell antiwarp. All the previous listed problems are all generally the main issues in pub, and just this one change will solve most of them.....Gosh.

We could also juat limit everyone to buying in safes. The reason I suggest this is we have had ideas on other uses for pubbux.

[Izor]

if its going to be so ez to get anti now, how about having the antiwarp blocks back in the mid base? Those used to be really useful for running away

[Spock!]

So, its been weeks since the rather shitty changes to the weasel. So, why can't we just go back to the small one already? Most people in pub seem to favor it. (atleast those that I talk to in-game) With pub bucks reset there will not be as big as a problem with !buy Repel all the time. I generally disliked the small x, but this large fast overpowered stealth x has to go.

People seem to want the small weasel with rep+rock back (not the one with stealth _ cloak)

Gosh, somebody has to get the fuking anchor out of their ass and do their damn job.

[Shaddowknight]

Some changes that are being tried out:

TW-PubSyst> RECENT CHANGES: We're testing out L2 bombs on Leviathan, and an attach bounty of 10. Weasel now drains a bit of energy to cloak+stealth, and has a lower bullet fire energy. Contact TWDev with any questions/comments.


It's just being tested currently, so don't expect anything on that to be permanent as of yet. Be sure to let us know about any comments/concerns about the changes.

[2pac]

go back to the settings during blu_tech map days

[Asmodeus]

I'm not very fond of the most recent changes made to pub. I think the 'original' ship settings that made this game great was a nice step in the right direction. I disagree with these most recent changes to the Leviathan and Weasel.

I am not fond at all of the most recent changes made to pub map when the base is 'medium' and 'large' size either. I fail to see how closing the mid-base ears during these sizes improves the game play at all.

I think these most recent changes should be undone.

[jim the chin]

I'm not very fond of the most recent changes made to pub. I think the 'original' ship settings that made this game great was a nice step in the right direction. I disagree with these most recent changes to the Leviathan and Weasel.

I am not fond at all of the most recent changes made to pub map when the base is 'medium' and 'large' size either. I fail to see how closing the mid-base ears during these sizes improves the game play at all.

I think these most recent changes should be undone.

Nope, according to you, asking for this doesn't count as a "suggestion" so can you stop whining and ranting and make a suggestion please.

Sorry, just had to point out the hypocrisy. I guess you see things differently when a setting that you personally like is changed.

[Shaddowknight]

I'm not very fond of the most recent changes made to pub. I think the 'original' ship settings that made this game great was a nice step in the right direction. I disagree with these most recent changes to the Leviathan and Weasel.

I am not fond at all of the most recent changes made to pub map when the base is 'medium' and 'large' size either. I fail to see how closing the mid-base ears during these sizes improves the game play at all.

I think these most recent changes should be undone.

The playerbase has changed (moreso in size than anything), and the zone needs to change with it. The reduction in power level of the levi is a needed concession in this area. This is a step forward towards balancing things for the current playerbase.
The closing of the ears in larget bases was needed because it was far too easy to access flagroom from mid when they were open. The Flagroom should be fairly easy to defend, but if your attackers can very easily change the direction from which their assault is coming from, that becomes much more difficult to defend.

The weasel perhaps needs some tuning yet, that or allow other ships to buy radar again with the small weasel size. The weasel is a very annoying ship to play against during LowPop and small base when you dont always have a terr available.

[Asmodeus]

The playerbase has changed (moreso in size than anything), and the zone needs to change with it. The reduction in power level of the levi is a needed concession in this area. This is a step forward towards balancing things for the current playerbase.
The closing of the ears in larget bases was needed because it was far too easy to access flagroom from mid when they were open. The Flagroom should be fairly easy to defend, but if your attackers can very easily change the direction from which their assault is coming from, that becomes much more difficult to defend.

The weasel perhaps needs some tuning yet, that or allow other ships to buy radar again with the small weasel size. The weasel is a very annoying ship to play against during LowPop and small base when you dont always have a terr available.

Since the changes to mid-base I have seen maybe a couple people use the sides to enter the FR. I don't think the relative ease of entering the FR was an issue at all. It made for some great FR battles. Looking at the TWBD and TWLB arenas for example, if the flag rooms were meant to be defended that easily then they wouldn't have removed those two blocks where the terr could anchor near the FR entrance. They were removed to make it easier to get in the FR, therefore making the game more interesting all the while more challenging for the defending the team. I don't see why the FR should be so easy to defend - it shouldn't be. This change should be undone.

I have no argument for the Leviathan. It would be nice if the .lvz for the bombs were optional. As for the Weasel, I think the 'original' settings were best for it. If we want to talk about imbalance and balance, I think the small Weasel has a clear advantage over everyone else except for the Terrier, being able to go where they please in base cloaked, creating havoc. Or as you so put it, be "very annoying," with no easy way to defend against.

[Left_Eye]

Anyone who plays pub on a regular basis knows that the levi could (and should - if they had cared about our dwindling player base) have been left intact with slight changes that would make it harder to cause such "damage" as people make it out to be. However, it was quite clear that the levi did practically little damage (while the settings were intact) when the map was medium/large phases. This "concession" as people call it is nothing more than the age old fight between basers and private LTers. In the past there were many pubs that basers could escape to, but by alienating the LT players at the expense of base players, we are losing them all over again, which no one is quite responsive to or have really addressed in this topic. The only thing I hear is more along the lines of "well if they can't don't like it, they can adjust or quit..." type of attitude. In addition, with every change, there is a group that is getting more and more pissed off that each time they log in, they are playing a new ship/zone. Pub needs stability above all else, which practically everyone on this thread is really failing to realize. However, even if I recall right, the players (and not just all basers) voted for the old levi over fiS' version of the levi (which is better than the current one if fiS was slightly changed by getting rid of EMP) with a 2-1 vote (almost 150 people voted). This should have been a good indication, for those that care about our players enough, to realize that the levi should have been adjusted slightly without making a full revamp of its role. In fact, I would say that fiS's levi is more of a compromise than this attempt. This current levi is good if you wanted another basing ship, but that was not the levi's role in the first place.

Pub is not meant to be all about basing, otherwise there would be no streaks for warbirds, no streaks continuing in safety, no LTs in the first place, all ships would be basing ships, there would be no duels, etc. Pub is more than just basing, which includes LTs, whether you like them or not. However, after every change that was made to the levis and pub overall (as the small weasel was effective with multiple pubs but not with single pub), they were messing with things that made TW what it was. As far as I'm concerned, the old Arilou map and settings are the way to go to preserve what is left of TW and allow newbies to get acclimated to the game as opposed to changing it around so often. Anyone who plays in pub often (which I have rarely seen those that are commenting here in pub to begin with) know about. For any real discussions, the people who should really be polled and asked for their opinions are those that play pub or watch over pub daily, not those that play it once in a while. If you read the other thread of pub discussion, both bkgmjo and BoobiesYAY (both huge pubbers) hit these above issues right on the nose (click here).

As for the map structure, the closing of the ears was a huge mistake in my opinion. When the mid base ears were open, it made it much more difficult for leviterrs in base to hide when they tried to affect mid base or flagroom fights. I can't recall how many times I was able to kill a private or public LT by going around the backway which was easy to maneuver through. The open mid base ears also promoted more flagroom basing action as a terr didn't have to go through an entire side tube (from very very low mid base) just to get to that point. The right angles made it also really easy to defend the flagroom because all a team had to do was line up and fire. Again, anyone who plays pub would really notice the effect of these changes. If the leader really cared, he would poll the players for any lasting decision just like fiS did. The public knows what they want and can handle. They're not stupid. Anyone who disregards their opinion is just patronizing them. These testings should be limited and then polled, if they wanted to make it lasting, because as I said, pub needs stability. Alienating one group at the expense of another is a quick way to make this game die a lot faster.