TW Council - UPDATED w/ structure

[Shaddowknight]

If this were all players, they would make 15 decisions, only to have sysops veto 18 of them, and make it pointless. They are working WITH the people in power, not against or being basically a "brainstorm council"

[Shaddowknight]

It would probably be in-game based on twd account (to keep it legit from those players with 700 names being able to skew results). Its easier to get someone to sign up for twd in-game than dick around with forums. Keeping it in-game is better, but we have to do something of this sort to keep the votes honest

[Exalt]

Lol exalt...I gave you a "dislike" for one reason only, to see your response. I wanted to see if you were still a loud mouthed faggot and you didn't disappoint.

+1 for that

My point remains the same, and you actually validated it. Your reason for the dislike proves that this voting system is flawed. You don't give a shit about the outcome as far as who would be right or wrong in this thing. You only care about personal agendas,however flawed, moronic, and dickish they may be. Thank you for proving my point.

also

Just my presence and activity in the game will do more to help it than anything you can ever possibly do.

Megaman89, apparently you don't realize how the large majority of TW thinks ur a faggot, strongly dislikes you, and half ur squad even dislikes u but remains largely silent to your face due to you being the captain of a (most likely) TWLB finalist squad. Dice also has a very good reputation in terms of talent in LB, but you are a baser (albiet a talented one) pure and simple and you aren't a likable person whatsoever. You aren't intelligent, you aren't charismatic, and you aren't someone that has ever struck me as someone that gave a fuck about anything or anyone but yourself. Since I'm not going to have a pissing contest in an actual productive forum thread, I'll just say that being the captain of Dice means jack-shit in terms of what this "idea" of a Council really should be. Quicksand was and is a much more popular squad and it was always a 1 league, LD squad. You don't see Izor acting like he is the greatest thing since slice bread, even when he was probably one of the top 5 best captains this game has ever seen, which I'm willing to bet anyone that ever joined QS will admit, even if they dislike him. The same goes for Kthx who was probably the top 5 best staff member this game has ever seen as well, and also an original member of Quicksand and a founding captain. I think I was a founding captain as well in 2003 in the first Quicksand, but I personally don't give much of a shit. I was never a captain-type player to want or need that to stroke my e-dick, but to each their own. Your ego alone is reason to prove you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Your head is too far up your ass to do a damn thing to help this zone, and if you think a Dice remake really did jack shit other than have half the basers and javs join the bench on your squad in hopes of another ring instead of seeing multiple different squads (even if less talented) playing LB/LJ, you are even a bigger moron than I originally thought.

By the way MM89, thank you for being stupid enough to prove my point for me. For nostalgic reasons: EZ n00b

And let's be honest here: The only player that could really do anything to garner more activity and competition in this league and get some old elites back and REALLY make a difference simply by remaking a squad would be Epi remaking Elusive or -Final- or something. Dice is a small blimp in the grand scheme of things, and definitely not something I've heard anyone give a fuck about. In that scale, if With Ease left for years and then remade Thunder or Da1andonly came back and all the guys from Disoblige remade, or if THE PUSHER and the rest of them all came back and remade Pallies (that's probably the best remake I could think of), THEN you'd see some excitement and people wanting to come back. As for you and Dice??? You aren't jack shit in the scheme of things. Nobody really gives a fuck about you, and Dice is a team not a one-man show. You are way too full of yourself and nowhere near as important as you clearly think you are. I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic and sad.

I also added a #9 to my application:


9. I don't expect to win at all, because there are a lot of players that dislike me, and there are a lot of fgts named megaman89, but even with that being said, I'm throwing my name in to set an example for other people, and hopefully people will take this seriously. I don't find it funny when you guys jokingly add your name and say "vote 4 meh giuyz bcuz I dunt give a fuk." This is actually something that seems important. That being said, I've asked other players in TW that I think would be good fits to add their names to the ballot. It means I'll most likely lose, because I told people about this that I know are much more popular than me, but I also know they will have legitimate ideas and they will want to make the game better as much as I do. Therefore, feel free to downvote me or whatever, but take the other people seriously that actually show they give a fuck.

[Spock!]

I have a question for anybody qualified to answer it:

How/where will the actual voting be taking place?
Is it going to be in this forum, or perhaps TWD site?

IMO, both of those will be rather biased venues for voting. As it is, many players don't have a forum/TWD account, and as a result many might not even vote because it.

I always thought a voting process inside pub would be a good Idea, if cheating can be avoided. That way people will not have to go outside the game to vote, and it will likely be less biased since people from all sides of TW can access it easily. I guess it could be set up kind of like the Leviathan voting polls in pub where a while back ago, with some minor tweaking.

Live Long and Prosper.

[Ephemeral]

...That is why, (I forget who had the original idea) that people should be elected from all different aspects of pub and put in categories...

FYI, I had a short stay in staff about 6 months ago but before I left I pushed for (and posted one of my trademarked long winded diatribes) in the staff forum about the need to have the player base represented on staff. I outlined that the real ‘power’ in the zone was not the ability to send zoners or host events but rather really resided with those who were making the decisions. I had several discussion with the Deans and those in power on this topic.
Although I suggested that the entire staff should be elected positions, Demonic, Beasty, M-M and Qan have hammered out a pretty good solution with this council. Old habits die hard and change is never easy; kudos to them for having the balls to try to change the way the zone is managed. The foundation for change is finally being laid; time will tell if it is too late.
eph

[megaman89]

Lol exalt...I gave you a "dislike" for one reason only, to see your response. I wanted to see if you were still a loud mouthed faggot and you didn't disappoint. I'm fine with people who speak up and talk shit because that's all I do in the game but the one thing I can't stand is when people with 0 talent like yourself do it, it's just annoying. If you think I don't care about the zone you're both dumb and wrong. I brought back dice this season to supply some competition for TWL, if you didn't notice Pandora won all 3 leagues last season which was pathetic and only happened due to lack of aforementioned competition. Everyone in the zone knows my name, from new pubbers to 10+ year vets. I just had a guy that was playing for a month watch me in a jd and pm me after asking if I can give him some tips since he heard I was the best (he actually thought that the bomb on a jav was just a big bullet). What did I do? I gave him some pointers instead of saying "go away ez newb" which is what I can picture you saying. I don't need to write useless paragraphs on here or think of ideas to bring a nearly 20 year old game back to life. Just my presence and activity in the game will do more to help it than anything you can ever possibly do.

[Spock!]

I would have to agree with Exalt on alot of things. From the beginning I feared this thing would be popularity contest, and being that League players seem to be involved/integrated/know each other more/more popular than alot of more obscure pubbers, it seems like they will be the ones getting elected and not the ones who could actually help the whole zone in general. (I'm not trying to promote myself here)

That is why, (I forget who had the original idea) that people should be elected from all different aspects of pub and put in categories. Otherwise we will just have a gob of TWD people all voting for each other and on the same thing with the same biased viewpoint.

And I agree on staffers not getting a vote, they already have their bit of power, but this election is for the non-empowered players to have a voice in pub, not the already empowered players getting more of a say.

[Exalt]

I dont see why staffers shouldnt have a vote. (some) of us still play this zone. I admit I dont as much as I used to (currently Skyrim is to blame), but that doesnt mean we shouldnt have a say. We dont have any voted staffers in it (will likely be fixed before too long), so 98% of staff would get 0 chance to say abything. Agreed on many other points though.

It isn't really that staff shouldn't have a say because they don't play or aren't active. On the contrary, I think staff shouldn't have a say because I view this entire Council thing as a check and balance ala Congress or Parliament is to the President or Prime Minister of a country. The Council seems to be a way for NON staff members to have a say in the decision making of staff members, and also a way to coordinate staff members who may be too embroiled in staff politics to get anything done in this zone, which we've seen countless times in the past.

Basically, if the President was allowed to choose his own Congress, he'd be a dictator, and it would defeat the entire purpose of the Congress. Giving staff voting powers into a non-staff council just means more staff-friendly players will get in, and it will be another repeating cycle of what we already have. This Council thing is such a great idea because it is the first time in the entire time I've played subspace that I've seen Trenchwars Staff force themselves to be accountable in some way/shape/form to the community that are not staff themselves.

Staff has always had politics involved in who becomes staff and who doesn't, and personally, a player like me (for instance), who started playing in middle school and was pretty immature most of my time calling everyone a newbie or EZ or stirring shit up just to cause chaos instead of trying to actively make things better... basically anyone with a bad past... has always been automatically disqualified from staff due to that bad past. That being said, even if it was/is warranted even, there are plenty of players like this who have great ideas, good intentions, and have the ability to get things done in this zone, but they are not afforded the time of day with staff due to them not being "liked" by the upper staff members. They are ignored, and staff has ALWAYS become a closed-knit group of LIKE-MINDED individuals, and the FEW people who make staff and have DIFFERENT opinions quickly get axed and/or they get buried and stuck in a low-level staff position like ZH or ER and thus never had much of an impact. This meant that the only people who ever could make a difference in this zone were people that knew how to suck up to the right people and who also THOUGHT in the same wavelengths as those upper staff members. This leads to the status quo remaining largely the same, and very few things ever got done in the 15 years I've played this game. There have been plenty of great ideas on the forums by players, and staff usually just ignore it because it's either an idea from a player upper staff doesn't like and so it isn't taken seriously, OR even if staff DO like the idea, they may not be able to coordinate the efforts due to political problems within staff.

Get my point here?

TL;DR Staff members are already staff, and the Council is for players in the community that are not staff. Players do not get to vote in who becomes staff, so staff should not get to vote in who becomes Council members.

[beam]

i accept

[ogron]

I'd like to nominate Beam.


In-game name(s): Beam
Years playing TW, SS: 1998
Primary arenas played: TWLD, TWLJ, TWLB, and ?go base (shark only)


Zone issues important to Beam: None. But he will shoot down all the terrible ideas all the other Council members will suggest, providing critical analysis and a litmus test as to whether their plan's goal will accomplish anything. He will be the Senate to the rest of the Council's Congress. Or something.

Beam isn't afraid to tell people what he really thinks and will cut through the red-tape and politics that have bogged down an inept and do-nothing staff that has run this game into the ground.

Beam is highly resistant to conformity and will provide a 2nd member of the council the courage to stand-up and challenge the majority consensus on important issues, as proven by the Ashe experiment, stating thusly:

Asch also found that having one of the confederates give the correct answer while the rest of the confederates gave the incorrect answer dramatically lowered conformity. In this situation, just five to ten percent of the participants conformed to the rest of the group. Later studies have also supported this finding (Morris & Miller, 1975), suggesting that having social support is an important tool in combating conformity.

Beam isn't the Council Member people want, but he's the member the council NEEDS.

[Shaddowknight]

I dont see why staffers shouldnt have a vote. (some) of us still play this zone. I admit I dont as much as I used to (currently Skyrim is to blame), but that doesnt mean we shouldnt have a say. We dont have any voted staffers in it (will likely be fixed before too long), so 98% of staff would get 0 chance to say abything. Agreed on many other points though.

[Exalt]

In game name: Kthx
Years played: Alot

Conditions: you make me unconditional leader of the zone and let me fix it or you can go fuck yourselves.

Kthx should be leading staff right now, and if that's an impossible thing, I agree that he should be leading this "council" thing. He's by far the smartest person on these forums in terms of someone that knows what's going on in this zone, knows all the political bullshit of staff, calls people out that other staffers are afraid to do due to worrying about their "positions" within the hierarchy, and he is generally liked by everyone in the zone beyond moronic staff members that have no idea how to make anything better.

Btw, this is going to be a popularity contest instead of who is actually "right" for this council thing, qan. You do realize this, correct? You got people like megaman downvoting anyone that isn't a current or ex Dice member, or anyone that isn't a baser in general. People like him, for instance, don't give a fuck what happens to the zone. You'll have a lot of people like that, unfortunately. What will happen is this will turn into a shitfest of who is popular, who begs people to vote for them, who kisses ass the most, etc. What this council should be about is people who DO NOT kiss ass. The entire problem with staff is that it is FULL of ass kissing players who would rather play political games instead of taking action and knowing how to get things done. You also have a large majority of Subspace that do not log into forums and/or do not care enough about this thing to take it seriously and upvote people that should be in it, or downvote people that should not. I'm just calling it like I see it, but this is your deal qan.

Anyways, if you truly want legitimacy of this thing, make Kthx the head council member. I'm not kidding.

Also, why is everyone downvoting a player like Spock! when this thing NEEDS to have players from every viewpoint? If you want it to be legitimate, you add a player from every section of Trenchwars. That means a pure-pubber like Spock!, an ex staffer who knows all the politics and can get around them like Kthx, a baser, a warbird, a jav, a TWL player, a non-TWL but pure TWD player, someone who doesn't play leagues but may play elim/wbduel/.?go javs/etc. Someone that plays a lot of Events. Etc Etc Etc. You need differing viewpoints.


EDIT: Sup Kahlan. How many times u gonna die in a fire and resurrect? You like Jesus, Horus, and Buddha put together.

Oh yeah, and Current Staff members should NOT have a vote. That defeats the purpose of this thing.

[kthx]

In game name: Kthx
Years played: Alot

Conditions: you make me unconditional leader of the zone and let me fix it or you can go fuck yourselves.

[Kahlan]

Kahlan.
I don't want to be on council. I'm just letting everyone know, much to their dissatisfaction, that I'm still alive.

[qan]

PLAYER CANDIDATE THREAD UP:

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?44424



If you are interested in running for Council, please fill out the brief questionnaire so people can get a better idea of what you might do as a member.


The first post of this thread has also been moved to the new Council subforum, with slightly expanded info. Refer to that thread for updates on TWC policy. This thread remains for infotainment purposes.